The Book of Enoch

yeshuasavedme

Senior Veteran
May 31, 2004
12,811
777
✟97,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
  • Agree
Reactions: Ygrene Imref
Upvote 0

PaladinValer

Traditional Orthodox Anglican
Apr 7, 2004
23,582
1,245
42
Myrtle Beach, SC
✟30,305.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
No modern Jewish or Christian group considers it Scripture.

While it is often said the Ethiopian Orthodox Church does, their concept of Holy Scripture is not the same as the rest of the vast majority of Christianity, so to cite them as evidence is not valid since we're not talking about the same definition of Holy Scripture.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: brinny
Upvote 0

Tzaousios

Αυγουστινιανικός Χριστιανός
Dec 4, 2008
8,504
609
Comitatus in praesenti
Visit site
✟19,229.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I know that it is inspiried, and Jesus calls it Scripture.

The Book of Enoch, Translated by Robert H. Charles, 1912

popcorn_seinfeld.gif
 
  • Haha
Reactions: brinny
Upvote 0

Lion King

Veni, vidi, vici
Mar 29, 2011
7,360
578
Heavenly Jerusalem- Mount Zion
✟10,388.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
So I was wondering how many people consider this to be inspired. I read through it this weekend and couldn't help but wonder what would make anyone think this was from God.

Any reasons you believe it was not from God?
 
Upvote 0

Stryder06

Check the signature
Jan 9, 2009
13,856
519
✟31,839.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
If one recognises the Epistle of Jude as Scripture, it seems churlish to balk at Enoch.

By similar argument, though somewhat more tenuous, to what Scripture does Jesus refer here if not to Enoch.

I did this as one reason, being that people believe Jude was quoting from Enoch. I however had a hard time accepting that as fact. And I don't know why you think Jesus would have been quoting from Jude. He would have been speaking from what He knew, since He came from Heaven.

So the "quoting" aside, what other reasons are there to see this book as inspired?
 
  • Winner
Reactions: brinny
Upvote 0

PaladinValer

Traditional Orthodox Anglican
Apr 7, 2004
23,582
1,245
42
Myrtle Beach, SC
✟30,305.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
If one recognises the Epistle of Jude as Scripture, it seems churlish to balk at Enoch.

By similar argument, though somewhat more tenuous, to what Scripture does Jesus refer here if not to Enoch.

That assumes that only canonical books are quoted or referenced. If that isn't the case, then this argument has no validity.

And it isn't the case.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Lion King

Veni, vidi, vici
Mar 29, 2011
7,360
578
Heavenly Jerusalem- Mount Zion
✟10,388.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Plenty, but I asked why first. It's only polite to answer my question before posing your own :)

I did this as one reason, being that people believe Jude was quoting from Enoch. I however had a hard time accepting that as fact. And I don't know why you think Jesus would have been quoting from Jude. He would have been speaking from what He knew, since He came from Heaven.

So the "quoting" aside, what other reasons are there to see this book as inspired?

Wouldn't it be easier for people to list the reasons they believe it's not inspired?:confused:
 
Upvote 0

ChetSinger

Well-Known Member
Apr 18, 2006
3,518
650
✟124,958.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Jude and 2 Peter appear to refer to some of the events described in Enoch. But to me that alone doesn't stamp "scripture" on the entire thing.

For example, if I say "D-Day was on June 6 1944" and you find the same thing in a WWII history book, I'm not necessarily vouching for everything contained in that book.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: brinny
Upvote 0

TheGMan

Follower of Jesus of Nazareth
Aug 25, 2005
1,475
94
45
London
✟9,761.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
I however had a hard time accepting that as fact.
Oh no. It is 100% fact that Jude was quoting from the Book of Enoch. We have papyrus fragments from Qumran that prove it.

And I don't know why you think Jesus would have been quoting from Jude. He would have been speaking from what He knew, since He came from Heaven.
I am assuming that the Sadducee he was addressing did not come from heaven and did not benefit from his privileged knowledge. Jesus said, "You do not know the Scriptures."

That assumes that only canonical books are quoted or referenced.
I assume you are referring to Acts 17:28. Very good, but Paul does not refer to the men he quotes as prophets, or even as philosophers, only as poets.

A question: what is the difference between asserting that the Book of Enoch is prophecy (as Jude does) and asserting that is Scripture?
 
Upvote 0

Stryder06

Check the signature
Jan 9, 2009
13,856
519
✟31,839.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Jude and 2 Peter appear to refer to some of the events described in Enoch. But to me that alone doesn't stamp "scripture" on the entire thing.

For example, if I say "D-Day was on June 6 1944" and you find the same thing in a WWII history book, I'm not necessarily vouching for everything contained in that book.

I can appreciate that. However with scripture, should we be ok with a book that might have somethings correct, and other things wrong?
 
  • Winner
Reactions: brinny
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

yeshuasavedme

Senior Veteran
May 31, 2004
12,811
777
✟97,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
How do you know it's inspired? What exactly is it about the book that lead you to that conclusion?
Reading the Word of God for nearly forty years as an avid student of the Word left me with many, many, questions that I thought I would have to wait til I was in heaven to get the answers to, but many of them are answered in Enoch.

The wording of the old English translation and the ignorance of the English translators [and we are all as ignorant, having lost Enoch in the west for so long] make some things harder to understand at first glance, but reading them, and thinking, one does grasp the meaning.
In the below passage, the "cutting of roots" was worded in such a way as to make one imagine that for some reason it is sin to cut a root to reproduce a cloned plant, but it is speaking of cutting roots in the genetic sense, and genetic manipulation is exactly what is stated.
below:

7 And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. 2And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants...
..

But being a student of the Word, I saw Jesus' Gospel in Enoch, which did not just spring on the world out of nowhere, but was in Enoch, first, and the Law was given to rehearse the things that Enoch first wrote of, about the redemption to come in the name of the Son of Man come to earth, to die, descend, be raised, ascend, and be glorified, and in whose formerly secret name [Israel] the righteous would be saved.
Jesus quoted from Enoch time and time again, as if it was part of his entire being and said things that are found no other place than in Enoch, which was read and used by studious Jews of His day, and after His ascension, for hundreds of years, also.

The rapture pre-trib is in Enoch chapter 50, and the time of tribulation is in Enoch in many places.
Without Enoch, Revelation is a piece of a puzzle that has too many pieces missing: Enoch was first, and those pieces are in Enoch.

It is the first book of eschatology, and it is revelation from God through Enoch, to us in these last days, especially.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Ygrene Imref
Upvote 0

ChetSinger

Well-Known Member
Apr 18, 2006
3,518
650
✟124,958.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
I can appreciate that. However with scripture, should we be ok with a book that might have somethings correct, and other things wrong?
No, and that's why I don't consider Enoch to be scriptural, and neither does my church. It may have some good stuff in it, but that alone hasn't lifted it to the level of scripture except in (apparently) a single denomination of the church.
 
Upvote 0

Tzaousios

Αυγουστινιανικός Χριστιανός
Dec 4, 2008
8,504
609
Comitatus in praesenti
Visit site
✟19,229.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No, and that's why I don't consider Enoch to be scriptural, and neither does my church. It may have some good stuff in it, but that alone hasn't lifted it to the level of scripture except in (apparently) a single denomination of the church.

Right, which makes it very interesting to see lonewolf Christians constantly appeal to it in order to corroborate whatever theories they come up with supposedly by just reading for themselves and praying.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

PaladinValer

Traditional Orthodox Anglican
Apr 7, 2004
23,582
1,245
42
Myrtle Beach, SC
✟30,305.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I assume you are referring to Acts 17:28. Very good, but Paul does not refer to the men he quotes as prophets, or even as philosophers, only as poets.

I wasn't. I was referring to the fact that the Church never gave it any real credence and was never part of the Septuagint nor official lists of the Canon.

A question: what is the difference between asserting that the Book of Enoch is prophecy (as Jude does) and asserting that is Scripture?

A better question: how is prophecy automatically Scripture?
 
Upvote 0