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Again, how are YOU able to discern who is a true believer and who is not? Are you able to read their hearts?
when washing clothes yes, when dealing with humans and their sin condition no....How do you define cleansing? Do it mean it washes away dirty and impurity or not?
uh huh.....I just want to say that I am 'pleasantly shocked' to see everyone discussing this issue in brotherly debate and discussion.......this is what we need in every thread...
If I confess with my mouth that He is Lord, and believe in Him for salvation, who are you (or anyone) to say otherwise? Where are you commissioned to pass such judgments? Did God ask us to be fruit inspectors by looking at each other?It begins to show in the fruit of the Spirit, they just cant keep it hidden under a bushel.......
- Galatians 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Galatians 5:21-23 (in Context) Galatians 5 (Whole Chapter)- Ephesians 5:9
For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth
Interesting however that is not my view, nor my philosophy of truth. Truth to me is embodied in Christ, thus it is not a philosophy but the God who saves and perfects us..... the bible makes it clear, Hebrews 12: 1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a huge crowd of witnesses to the life of faith, let us strip off every weight that slows us down, especially the sin that so easily trips us up. And let us run with endurance the race God has set before us. 2 We do this by keeping our eyes on Jesus, the champion who initiates and perfects our faith.
Paul says lets lay aside the sins that beset us and he tells us how that is done, by focusing on Jesus the author and perfector of our faith..... that much is clear to me....
[/list]If I confess with my mouth that He is Lord, and believe in Him for salvation, who are you (or anyone) to say otherwise? Where are you commissioned to pass such judgments? Did God ask us to be fruit inspectors by looking at each other?
Those who cried 'Lord, Lord' at the end are those who focus on their 'works' instead of Christ. Or they try to combine their efforts and make God out to be a sort of 'helper' to man, rather than Sovereign God. They want a cooperative effort to count for salvation rather than it being by grace (alone) through faith (alone) in Christ (alone). They wish to play a part of saving themselves. They want their own supposed 'good works' and 'good fruit' to count. But God NEVER KNEW them.
In Chirst alone...
ye that work iniquity'Iniquity' is what it refers to not works...
- Malachi 2:6
The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.
Malachi 2:5-7 (in Context) Malachi 2 (Whole Chapter)- Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Matthew 7:22-24 (in Context
Again, how are YOU able to discern who is a true believer and who is not? Are you able to read their hearts?
If you really think about what a philosophy is it embodies a belief or mentally embracing something. You cannot focus on Christ without first having a mental ascent to Him and His truth for your salvation. "Philosophy" is just fancy terminology for belief or a belief system. Amen to the rest of you post, good narrative, content and truth.
God Bless you brother
Jim Larmore
Many people may have mental ascent to Christ, but it is not with mental ascent that we come to become Christ-ones.
Romans 10" 9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."
Mental ascent, if I'm understanding your use of that term, does nothing. Becoming born again is all about the heart.
http://foru.ms/t6296892-the-belief-of-sinless-perfection.htmlQuote:
So this is not a discussion on 'sinlessness' per se as one can sin yet still reach this state of 'perfection'. It is a state or level that is reached with divine help in which we no longer sin or desire to sin, so lets start with the definition of the building blocks of belief we will use in this thread.
1) Man (sinful humans) on his own cannot achieve righteousness.
2) Perfection is when Man (sinful humans) has with the power of the divine, overcome sin to the state of Adam before the fall.
3) Adam before the fall had freewill and could sin, but when Man (sinful humans) overcomes sin, he no longer has any desire to sin.
4)Man (sinful humans) cannot go to heaven before God with any sin, as God requires holiness and perfection.
http://foru.ms/t6296892-the-belief-o...erfection.html
Every action is first conceived in the heart. If the heart is changed, the action will follow.
Many people may have mental ascent to Christ, but it is not with mental ascent that we come to become Christ-ones.
Romans 10" 9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."
Mental ascent, if I'm understanding your use of that term, does nothing. Becoming born again is all about the heart.
my opinion, I expressed it, just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it has never happened.... I did not accuse anyone of anything..... yet... neither have I assumed anything.... reread my comment.... I said many have used.... I did not say "many here have used." There is a significant difference.... if you feel you don't fit the category then I am not referring to you....
Interesting however that is not my view, nor my philosophy of truth. Truth to me is embodied in Christ, thus it is not a philosophy but the God who saves and perfects us..... the bible makes it clear, Hebrews 12: 1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a huge crowd of witnesses to the life of faith, let us strip off every weight that slows us down, especially the sin that so easily trips us up. And let us run with endurance the race God has set before us. 2 We do this by keeping our eyes on Jesus, the champion who initiates and perfects our faith.
Paul says lets lay aside the sins that beset us and he tells us how that is done, by focusing on Jesus the author and perfector of our faith..... that much is clear to me....
The thought processes are where we become Holy by the influence and work of the Holy Spirit, or the other way around we become vile by the exercise of our natures and satan's influence . The mental ascent I am speaking of is very involved and not just a passive thing at all. The creator made us to be thinkers and doers. Most actions are proceded by a thought or mental activity. When the Bible speaks of the heart it really is speaking of the mind and what it does. You cannot be born again which involves massive changes in the life without intimate involvement of the mind and associated thoughts.
This will happen ONLY when we are rid of these corruptible bodies and given incorruptible bodies.
because when I read the comment it generated a thought, and I posted the thought that came to mind, just as your comments are a reaction to the opinion I expressed.... as this is a discussion, I contributed my opinion to that discussion...So, why do you bring it up in a discussion here if no one has expressed this and no one believes you are saved by what you do?
if he perfects us here and now (and perfecting is used in conjunction with faith and not sinlessness) then there would be no need to change anything in the moment, in the twinkling of an eye.... I suspect you are equating perfecting with sinlessness and I am not using the term in that manner....
One question, as you stated you believe God perfects us... When does God do this if not on this earth?
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