The being of light of NDE fame, G-d or Satan?

[Quid est Veritas?]

"One of the most common causes of near-death experiences is fainting,"


Near-death experiences: the experience of the self as real and not ...
Because the publication of several prospective studies on near-death experience (NDE) in survivors of cardiac arrest have shown strikingly similar results and conclusions, the phenomenon of the NDE can no longer be scientifically ignored.



You are so correct. NDE's are not normal symptoms. We get that.
But they never happen to people with normal blood flow to the brain.
That's a big clue.




-Temporality of Features in Near-Death Experience Narratives
Correction in: Front Hum Neurosci. 2017; 11: 435.

-Fantasy Proneness Correlates With the Intensity of Near-Death Experience

-Three cases of near death experience: Is it physiology, physics or philosophy?

-Heaven can wait - or down to earth in real time: Near-death experience revisited

-Infrequent near death experiences in severe brain injury survivors - A quantitative and qualitative study

-“Reality” of near-death-experience memories: evidence from a psychodynamic and electrophysiological integrated study

That as may be, however there has never been a causation, nor even correlation, shown between cerebral ischaemia and NDEs by Evidence-Based means beyond its weakest evidence class or studies with poor confidence intervals. So ascribing it to it, remains strongly conjectural.

 

[SkyWriting]

That as may be, however there has never been a causation, nor even correlation, shown between cerebral ischaemia and NDEs by Evidence-Based means beyond its weakest evidence class or studies with poor confidence intervals. So ascribing it to it, remains strongly conjectural.

With zero cases during good blood flow, the evidence is 100% that poor blood flow is the major factor. I even recall my first book on NDE and the person claiming to have brought on OOBE's went into a trance like state to create them. Certainly not running on a treadmill.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

With zero cases during good blood flow, the evidence is 100% that poor blood flow is the major factor.

This has not been established. How do you determine whether ischaemia was present without active monitoring or radiologic investigation? Did you inject dye and do an arteriogram during NDEs? As I said, conjectural. This is not how Evidence-Based Medicine works, which is strongly empiric. This is certainly a possible hypothesis, but you are really overplaying your hand.

 

[SkyWriting]

This has not been established. How do you determine whether ischaemia was present without active monitoring or radiologic investigation? Did you inject dye and do an arteriogram during NDEs? As I said, conjectural. This is not how Evidence-Based Medicine works, which is strongly empiric. This is certainly a possible hypothesis, but you are really overplaying your hand.

You can provide one case of good blood flow during an NDE.
Then I would stop flashing my cards as much.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

You can provide one case of good blood flow during an NDE.
Then I would stop flashing my cards as much.

I cannot present one case of good blood flow, but neither can you present one case of bad blood flow. NDEs do not occur in a reproducible manner and causes or effects related there to, are conjectural. To assume it is due to ischaemia remains merely an assumption. We know it is related to catastrophic dysfunction of physiology, hence Near Death, which often is related to blood flow, but again, no correlation or causation has been shown by Evidence-Based means beyond its weakest class of evidence or highly dubious ones. It might just as well be due to extreme nerve depolarisation or disruption of neuron membranes - that is certainly how mamy induction agents and volatiles seem to work, which also induces activity not dissimilar to an NDE in many respects.

 

[SkyWriting]

I cannot present one case of good blood flow, but neither can you present one case of bad blood flow.

Fainting is the leading cause of OOBE. Sorry.
That and each of the citations cover low blood flow to the brain.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=near+death+experience

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Fainting is the leading cause of OOBE. Sorry.
That and each of the citations cover low blood flow to the brain.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=near+death+experience

Ketamine induces a state of dissociative anaesthesia not dissimilar to an NDE, and it raises blood pressure and cerebral perfusion pressure. It does so via releasing noradrenaline stores, which also occurs in shock, hypovolaemic or otherwise.

Sorry, but it isn't so clear cut. I am going to stop this discussion now, as it is not really going anywhere.

Good day.

 

[BobRyan]

The Jim Woodford NDE account has me asking myself lots, and lots and lots of questions.....????

All claims about the "living dead" should make you "ask questions" given that God says He is not the "God of the dead" Matthew 22. And that those who die are the "DEAD in Christ" 1 Thess 4.

 

[DennisTate]

All claims about the "living dead" should you make you "ask questions" given that God says He is not the "God of the dead" Matthew 22. And that those who die are the "DEAD in Christ" 1 Thess 4.

Have you heard this interview?

Did you think that they were both trying their best to recount what they experienced?

 

[BobRyan]

Have you heard this interview?

Did you think that they were both trying their best to recount what they experienced?

Pizza, Mack-and-cheese in heaven?
And he saw Michael?
God big enough to hold the whole world in His hands???
David, Mary, ... John the baptist

Ok the story is totally bogus but not sure who is spinning up the tale.
(However interesting that the angel is about 12 feet tall)


We had one of these already -

from http://pulpitandpen.org/2015/01/13/...en-recants-story-rebukes-christian-retailers/

“The Boy Who Came Back From Heaven” Recants Story, Rebukes Christian Retailers



But I would never argue that "all the fake stories" happen that way. Jesus was given some "fake news" by Satan in the wilderness of temptation. He really did see some things - but those things were meant to mislead and deceive.

 

[DennisTate]

Pizza, Mack-and-cheese in heaven?
And he saw Michael?
God big enough to hold the whole world in His hands???
David, Mary, ... John the baptist

Ok the story is totally bogus but not sure who is spinning up the tale.
(However interesting that the angel is about 12 feet tall)


We had one of these already -

from http://pulpitandpen.org/2015/01/13/...en-recants-story-rebukes-christian-retailers/

“The Boy Who Came Back From Heaven” Recants Story, Rebukes Christian Retailers



But I would never argue that "all the fake stories" happen that way. Jesus was given some "fake news" by Satan in the wilderness of temptation. He really did see some things - but those things were meant to mislead and deceive.

In the Alex Malarkey case the mother was angry that her ex-husband was making money off the book....... She got several pastors who believed in Soul Sleep dogmatically to convince the poor kid that he must have been wrong....... because to those preachers who knew some scriptures ..... .they knew how to scare the kid..... so he did what his mom told him to do and recanted his story.

I believe that Colton was telling the truth.......

I believe that Howard Storm is also telling the truth......

 

[BobRyan]

Have you heard this interview?

Did you think that they were both trying their best to recount what they experienced?

Pizza, Mack-and-cheese in heaven?
And he saw Michael?
God big enough to hold the whole world in His hands???
David, Mary, ... John the baptist

Ok the story is totally bogus but not sure who is spinning up the tale.
(However interesting that the angel is about 12 feet tall)


We had one of these already -

from http://pulpitandpen.org/2015/01/13/...en-recants-story-rebukes-christian-retailers/

“The Boy Who Came Back From Heaven” Recants Story, Rebukes Christian Retailers



But I would never argue that "all the fake stories" happen that way. Jesus was given some "fake news" by Satan in the wilderness of temptation. He really did see some things - but those things were meant to mislead and deceive.

In the Alex Malarkey case the mother was angry that her ex-husband was making money off the book....... She got several pastors who believed in Soul Sleep dogmatically to convince the poor kid that he must have been wrong....... because to those preachers who knew some scriptures ..... .they knew how to scare the kid..... so he did what his mom told him to do and recanted his story.

I believe that Colton was telling the truth.......

I believe that Howard Storm is also telling the truth......

Ok well we differ there but you are certainly welcome to your opinion my friend.

I find the "Pizza, Mack-and-cheese" story for heaven to be hard to swallow.

I find this much more believable -

1 Thess 4
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[DennisTate]

Pizza, Mack-and-cheese in heaven?
And he saw Michael?
God big enough to hold the whole world in His hands???
David, Mary, ... John the baptist

Ok the story is totally bogus but not sure who is spinning up the tale.
(However interesting that the angel is about 12 feet tall)


We had one of these already -

from http://pulpitandpen.org/2015/01/13/...en-recants-story-rebukes-christian-retailers/

“The Boy Who Came Back From Heaven” Recants Story, Rebukes Christian Retailers



But I would never argue that "all the fake stories" happen that way. Jesus was given some "fake news" by Satan in the wilderness of temptation. He really did see some things - but those things were meant to mislead and deceive.



Ok well we differ there but you are certainly welcome to your opinion my friend.

I find the "Pizza, Mack-and-cheese" story for heaven to be hard to swallow.

I find this much more believable -

1 Thess 4
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Yes.... food in heaven..... and Messiah Yeshua - Jesus in his glorified body cooked fish and bread with his disciples after his resurrection........ you are free to not believe that though! It seems like he ate along with them.....

https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/jhn/21/13/s_1018013

1 After these things Jesus shewed himself again to the disciples at the sea of Tiberias; and on this wise shewed he himself.

2 There were together Simon Peter, and Thomas called Didymus, and Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, and the sonsof Zebedee, and two other of his disciples.

3 Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing. They say unto him, We also go with thee. They went forth, and entered into a ship immediately; and that night they caught nothing.

4 But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: but the disciples knew not that it was Jesus.

5 Then Jesus saith unto them, Children, have ye any meat? They answered him, No.

6 And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.

7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher’s coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.

8 And the other disciples came in a little ship; (for they were not far from land, but as it were two hundred cubits,) dragging the net with fishes.

9 As soon then as they were come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid thereon, and bread.

10 Jesus saith unto them, Bring of the fish which ye have now caught.

11 Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken.

12 Jesus saith unto them, Come and dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord.

13 Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise.

14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead.

15 ¶ So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.

16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes.... food in heaven

No question -- I fully agree -- "food in heaven".

And food "in the garden of Eden".

I did not mean to imply that I do not think there is food in heaven.

 

[DennisTate]

Pizza, Mack-and-cheese in heaven?
And he saw Michael?
God big enough to hold the whole world in His hands???
David, Mary, ... John the baptist

Ok the story is totally bogus but not sure who is spinning up the tale.
(However interesting that the angel is about 12 feet tall)


We had one of these already -

from http://pulpitandpen.org/2015/01/13/...en-recants-story-rebukes-christian-retailers/

“The Boy Who Came Back From Heaven” Recants Story, Rebukes Christian Retailers



But I would never argue that "all the fake stories" happen that way. Jesus was given some "fake news" by Satan in the wilderness of temptation. He really did see some things - but those things were meant to mislead and deceive.



Ok well we differ there but you are certainly welcome to your opinion my friend.

I find the "Pizza, Mack-and-cheese" story for heaven to be hard to swallow.

I find this much more believable -

1 Thess 4
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Yes..... King David, Samson, John the Baptist and Mary the Mother of Jesus of course are there in heaven........
Messiah Yeshua Jesus is the Resurrection and the Life......

But I was once a member of a Soul Sleep teaching church myself.... and it is hard for you to give up your friendships in your church..... I can understand that........!

It was difficult for me as well......

https://www.near-death.com/experiences/notable/george-ritchie.html#a05c

c. His Experience of the "Receiving Station"

Jesus then takes Ritchie to another realm and is shown a kind of "receiving station" where spirits would arrive in a deep hypnotic sleep because of a particular religious belief they held to be true. Here there were "angels" trying to arouse them and help them realize, "God is truly a God of the living and that they did not have to lie around sleeping until Gabriel or someone came along blowing on a horn." These are the spirits of people who believe they must sleep in their grave until the second coming of Christ (i.e., soul sleep.)

IT ISN'T EASY TO PUT MESSIAH YESHUA - JESUS AHEAD OF YOUR CHURCH......I do understand that!

 

[DennisTate]

No question -- I fully agree -- "food in heaven".

And food "in the garden of Eden".

I did not mean to imply that I do not think there is food in heaven.

Good..........
Revelation 19:9 "And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God."

And it does seem logical that when a three year and ten month old kid goes to heaven...why not give them Mac and cheese and pizza?!

For the record... I have attended the Seventh Day Adventist church and read several books by Ellen G. White... .did you know that she used to have extensive out of the body experiences very, very, very, much like II Corinthians 12"2-4......?

1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

 

[DennisTate]

With zero cases during good blood flow, the evidence is 100% that poor blood flow is the major factor. I even recall my first book on NDE and the person claiming to have brought on OOBE's went into a trance like state to create them. Certainly not running on a treadmill.

Interesting..........
long term fasting can bring one on I think.....
There are some similarities between Matthew chapter 4 with some NDE accounts.