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The beginning and the end

Zao is life

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Please understand that this post is not about whether or not Satan was bound at the time of Calvary, or whether or not he will be re-released for his final short season at the close of this Age.

This post is to show that Revelation chapters 12-13 are telling us about the beginning and the end of the Age.

Let's start by making sure we all understand the identity of the woman Revelation chapter 12 introduces:

Simile: "And He brought him outside and said, Look now toward the heavens and count the stars, if you are able to count them. And He said to him, So shall your seed be." Genesis 15:5

Simile: "..that in blessing I will bless you, and in multiplying I will multiply your seed like the stars of the heavens, and as the sand which is upon the seashore. And your Seed shall possess the gate of His enemies." Genesis 22:17

Simile: "And those who are wise shall shine as the brightness of the sky; and those who turn many to righteousness shall shine as the stars forever and ever." Daniel 12:3

The metaphor that identifies who "the woman" is in Revelation chapter 12

Metaphor: "And he dreamed still another dream, and told it to his brothers. And he said, Behold, I have dreamed another dream. And behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars bowed down to me." Genesis 37:9-10

Jacob was the ruler of his clan. In Genesis 37:9-10 (above) the sun refers metaphorically to Jacob, and the moon to Rachel, Joseph's mother. The stars refer metaphorically to Joseph’s eleven brothers.

Genesis 37:9-10 (above) sets a precedent in the Bible for the use of metaphor in Biblical prophetic and Apocalyptic literature, hence in Revelation 12:1 the stars refer metaphorically to the same 12 tribes of Israel (who is "the daughter" of Eve, who is a type of the church):

Metaphor: "And there appeared a great sign in the heavens, a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon was under her feet, and a crown of twelve stars on her head." Revelation 12:1

Chapter Divisions

The chapter divisions in the New Testament (including the book of Revelation) were only inserted in the year 1227 A.D: Before this, the Revelation was just one long continuous book without any verses or chapter divisions; and there are some parts of some chapters that were inserted in A.D 1227 which should have been included in the previous chapter (for example, Revelation 19:1-4 obviously belongs in chapter 18, with the destruction of "Babylon the Great").

The chapter divisions in the Revelation make for easy reading, but these chapter divisions can confuse the reader, so it's at times important, when you read the Revelation, to mentally remove the chapter divisions. Please do so now with regard to the chapter divisions between Revelation chapters 12 & 13:

Just hours before He was handed over to be crucified, Jesus said,

John 12:31-32
"Now is the judgement of this world. Now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to Myself."

Revelation 12 is telling us about what happened when Jesus' statement above was fulfilled.

There are two characters, and two groups of people mentioned:
1. The Messiah;
2. The woman who gave birth to the Messiah;
3. The dragon;
4. The rest of the woman's seed who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 12
9 And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent called Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world. He was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a great voice saying in Heaven, Now has come the salvation and power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers is cast down, who accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony. And they did not love their soul to the death.

Revelation 13 introduces another two entities:

5. The beast John sees coming up out of the sea;
6. The beast John sees coming up out of the earth.

* Take note of how, in Revelation chapters 12 to 13, the crowns shift from the dragon's seven heads in Revelation 12:3 to the ten horns/kings (Revelation 13:1) at the close of the Age when Satan gives the beast his seat, his power, and great authority.

The two chapters (Revelation chapters 12 & 13) are telling us about:

(a) The spiritual forces existing behind the scenes from the beginning to the end of Satan's war which was first against God's Messiah (but the dragon was defeated), then against the woman who had given birth to the Messiah, and is now against the saints; and
(b) The channels for Satan's war against the saints at the close of the Age, i.e the beast & false prophet, which we read about in Revelation chapter 13.

The entire section (Revelation chapters 12-13) opens with the beginning of the gospel Age, and closes with the culmination of the dragon's war against the saints, and against the Kingdom of Christ.

The 1,260 days during which "the woman" is (or was) in the wilderness

We can understand whether or not this 1,260 days is referring symbolically to the entire Age, or to the beginning of the Age, or to the end of the Age by asking ourselves some questions, and answering those questions:

Question 1: Why did the dragon go to war against the woman who had brought the Messiah into the world?
Answer: Because he was enraged when he saw he had been cast out, and down to the earth (Revelation 12:12-16).

Question 2: When was the dragon cast down to the earth?
Answer: When the woman's child had been caught up to God and to His throne (Revelation 12:5-11).

Question 3: What did the dragon do when the earth helped the woman (Revelation 12:16)?
Answer: He went to make war with "the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." * (Revelation 12:17).

* "The rest of the woman's seed who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." only came into existence on the day of Pentecost, exactly 10 days after the woman's child had been "caught up to God and to His throne". The woman, on the other hand, had come into existence almost two millennia before the woman brought forth her child (the Messiah).

(Understand that typically (for apocalyptic/prophetic biblical literature), the Revelation is employing a great deal of metaphor).

Question 4: When did "the woman" escape to "the wilderness"?
Answer: She was "in the wilderness" while the dragon was persecuting her, which the context of Revelation 12 shows was at the very beginning of the church Age.

This 1,260 days could have begun on the same date of the death of Christ, but it could perhaps have begun immediately following the time her child was "caught up to God and to His throne" (40 days after the death of Christ, and 37 days after His resurrection from the dead).

The completion of this 1,260-day period (in my opinion) will have brought Daniel's 70th "week" (seven years) in Daniel's prophecy (Daniel 9:24-27) to its completion, since Christ was crucified in the middle of that "week" (in the middle of the final seven of the seventy years mentioned in Daniel 9:24-27).

Whatever the actual date that the woman fled into "the wilderness", it falls within this 40-day period, though the actual date is not 100% clear.

What is 100% clear is that "the woman" is referring to God's faithful elect, a.k.a "the church of the Old Testament", a.k.a Israel; and if we keep Revelation 12:1-16 within its own context, it is clear that it's only referring to the beginning of the Age:

The devil, who was cast down to the earth immediately after the woman's child had been "caught up to God and to His throne", became enraged with the woman who had given birth to the child, but when "the earth helped the woman" (Revelation 12:16), he turned his attention to "the rest of the woman's seed, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" (Revelation 12:17).

Question 5: Does scripture tell us when the dragon's war with "the rest of the woman's seed, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" began, and when it will end?
Answer: Yes, it does, in the following verses:

1 Peter 5:8-9; Ephesians 6:11-12; Revelation 2:9-10 & Revelation 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 2:18; James 4:7.

It spans the entire Age.

Furthermore, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 and Ephesians 2:2 tell us about Satan's influence over the societies of this world, this Age.

So in Revelation chapters 12-13 we have:

1. The dragon being cast out and cast down to earth when the woman's child had been caught up to God and His throne; and
2. The dragon going to war against the woman who had given birth to the Messiah when he saw he had been cast down to earth; and
3. When "the earth helped the woman", the dragon then going to war with "the rest of the woman's seed, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" (for the rest of the Age), culminating in the beast and false prophet's war against the saints at the close of the Age (which is seen in Revelation 13:7 & Revelation 13:15).
 
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trophy33

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Let's start by making sure we all understand the identity of the woman Revelation chapter 12 introduces...
But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation
2Pt 1:20

Trying to decipher the book of Revelation? Good luck.
 
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Zao is life

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But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation
2Pt 1:20

Trying to decipher the book of Revelation? Good luck.
Your post is empty and devoid of any argument (let alone rational argument) about anything said in my post. It's like the earth being empty and void before God ordered it and created life on it.

Well done.
 
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trophy33

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Your post is empty and devoid of any argument (let alone rational argument) about anything said in my post. It's like the earth being empty and void before God ordered it and created life on it.

Well done.
I beg to differ. My post will be probably the most useful in this thread.
 
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Zao is life

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I beg to differ. My post will be probably the most useful in this thread.
Well so far both your posts contain no use or substance, but the OP contains information that others will read and then when they see your remarks some may agree with you, but many will see both usefulness in the OP, and the uselessness and lack of substance in your remarks.

You are not the judge of your remarks, any more than I am of my own post. There are many others who will read my OP and your remarks and be the judges.

Try and offer something of substance.
 
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GospelS

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View attachment 310235

Please understand that this post is not about whether or not Satan was bound at the time of Calvary, or whether or not he will be re-released for his final short season at the close of this Age.

This post is to show that Revelation chapters 12-13 are telling us about the beginning and the end of the Age.

Let's start by making sure we all understand the identity of the woman Revelation chapter 12 introduces:

Simile: "And He brought him outside and said, Look now toward the heavens and count the stars, if you are able to count them. And He said to him, So shall your seed be." Genesis 15:5

Simile: "..that in blessing I will bless you, and in multiplying I will multiply your seed like the stars of the heavens, and as the sand which is upon the seashore. And your Seed shall possess the gate of His enemies." Genesis 22:17

Simile: "And those who are wise shall shine as the brightness of the sky; and those who turn many to righteousness shall shine as the stars forever and ever." Daniel 12:3

The metaphor that identifies who "the woman" is in Revelation chapter 12

Metaphor: "And he dreamed still another dream, and told it to his brothers. And he said, Behold, I have dreamed another dream. And behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars bowed down to me." Genesis 37:9-10

Jacob was the ruler of his clan. In Genesis 37:9-10 (above) the sun refers metaphorically to Jacob, and the moon to Rachel, Joseph's mother. The stars refer metaphorically to Joseph’s eleven brothers.

Genesis 37:9-10 (above) sets a precedent in the Bible for the use of metaphor in Biblical prophetic and Apocalyptic literature, hence in Revelation 12:1 the stars refer metaphorically to the same 12 tribes of Israel (who is "the daughter" of Eve, who is a type of the church):

Metaphor: "And there appeared a great sign in the heavens, a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon was under her feet, and a crown of twelve stars on her head." Revelation 12:1

Chapter Divisions

The chapter divisions in the New Testament (including the book of Revelation) were only inserted in the year 1227 A.D: Before this, the Revelation was just one long continuous book without any verses or chapter divisions; and there are some parts of some chapters that were inserted in A.D 1227 which should have been included in the previous chapter (for example, Revelation 19:1-4 obviously belongs in chapter 18, with the destruction of "Babylon the Great").

The chapter divisions in the Revelation make for easy reading, but these chapter divisions can confuse the reader, so it's at times important, when you read the Revelation, to mentally remove the chapter divisions. Please do so now with regard to the chapter divisions between Revelation chapters 12 & 13:

Just hours before He was handed over to be crucified, Jesus said,

John 12:31-32
"Now is the judgement of this world. Now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to Myself."

Revelation 12 is telling us about what happened when Jesus' statement above was fulfilled.

Revelation 12 is telling us about what happened when Jesus' statement above was fulfilled.

There are two characters, and two groups of people mentioned:
1. The Messiah;
2. The woman who gave birth to the Messiah;
3. The dragon;
4. The rest of the woman's seed who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 12
9 And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent called Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world. He was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a great voice saying in Heaven, Now has come the salvation and power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers is cast down, who accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony. And they did not love their soul to the death.

Revelation introduces another two entities:

5. The beast John sees coming up out of the sea;
6. The beast John sees coming up out of the earth.

* Take note of how, in Revelation chapters 12 to 13, the crowns shift from the dragon's seven heads in Revelation 12:3 to the ten horns/kings (Revelation 13:1) at the close of the Age when Satan gives the beast his seat, his power, and great authority.

The two chapters (Revelation chapters 12 & 13) are telling us about:

(a) The spiritual forces existing behind the scenes from the beginning to the end of Satan's war which was first against God's Messiah (but the dragon was defeated), then against the woman who had given birth to the Messiah, and is now against the saints; and
(b) The channels for Satan's war against the saints at the close of the Age, i.e the beast & false prophet, which we read about in Revelation chapter 13.

The entire section (Revelation chapters 12-13) opens with the beginning of the gospel Age, and closes with the culmination of the dragon's war against the saints, and against the Kingdom of Christ.

The 1,260 days during which "the woman" is (or was) in the wilderness

We can understand whether or not this 1,260 days is referring symbolically to the entire Age, or to the beginning of the Age, or to the end of the Age by asking ourselves some questions, and answering those questions:

Question 1: Why did the dragon go to war against the woman who had brought the Messiah into the world?
Answer: Because he was enraged when he saw he had been cast out, and down to the earth (Revelation 12:12-16).

Question 2: When was the dragon cast down to the earth?
Answer: When the woman's child had been caught up to God and to His throne (Revelation 12:5-11).

Question 3: What did the dragon do when the earth helped the woman (Revelation 12:16)?
Answer: He went to make war with "the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." * (Revelation 12:17).

* "The rest of the woman's seed who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." only came into existence on the day of Pentecost, exactly 10 days after the woman's child had been "caught up to God and to His throne". The woman, on the other hand, had come into existence almost two millennia before the woman brought forth her child (the Messiah).

(Understand that typically (for apocalyptic/prophetic biblical literature), the Revelation is employing a great deal of metaphor).

Question 4: When did "the woman" escape to "the wilderness"?
Answer: She was "in the wilderness" while the dragon was persecuting her, which the context of Revelation 12 shows was at the very beginning of the church Age.

This 1,260 days could have begun on the same date of the death of Christ, but it could perhaps have begun immediately following the time her child was "caught up to God and to His throne" (40 days after the death of Christ, and 37 days after His resurrection from the dead).

The completion of this 1,260-day period (in my opinion) will have brought Daniel's 70th "week" (seven years) in Daniel's prophecy (Daniel 9:24-27) to its completion, since Christ was crucified in the middle of that "week" (in the middle of the final seven of the seventy years mentioned in Daniel 9:24-27).

Whatever the actual date that the woman fled into "the wilderness", it falls within this 40-day period, though the actual date is not 100% clear.

What is 100% clear is that "the woman" is referring to God's faithful elect, a.k.a "the church of the Old Testament", a.k.a Israel; and if we keep Revelation 12:1-16 within its own context, it is clear that it's only referring to the beginning of the Age:

The devil, who was cast down to the earth immediately after the woman's child had been "caught up to God and to His throne", became enraged with the woman who had given birth to the child, but when "the earth helped the woman" (Revelation 12:16), he turned his attention to "the rest of the woman's seed, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" (Revelation 12:17).

Question 5: Does scripture tell us when the dragon's war with "the rest of the woman's seed, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" began, and when it will end?
Answer: Yes, it does, in the following verses:

1 Peter 5:8-9; Ephesians 6:11-12; Revelation 2:9-10 & Revelation 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 2:18; James 4:7.

It spans the entire Age.

Furthermore, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 and Ephesians 2:2 tell us about Satan's influence over the societies of this world, this Age.

So in Revelation chapters 12-13 we have:

1. The dragon being cast out and cast down to earth when the woman's child had been caught up to God and His throne; and
2. The dragon going to war against the woman who had given birth to the Messiah when he saw he had been cast down to earth; and
3. When "the earth helped the woman", the dragon then going to war with "the rest of the woman's seed, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" (for the rest of the Age), culminating in the beast and false prophet's war against the saints at the close of the Age (which is seen in Revelation 13:7 & Revelation 13:15).

Amen. Thanks for sharing. :amen:
 
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