The Beast that was and is not identified

Douggg · Nov 1, 2020

iamlamad said:
Show us a scripture that proves he will be the king of Israel.

"Anti" is a prefix meaning against and sometimes instead of. In the case of the great opposer to Jesus - both, when the person is the Antichrist.

Jesus was the rightful King of Israel coming in the name of the Lord. Another person, Jesus says the Jews would accept coming in his own name, John 5:43.

John 12:13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Mark 15:
31 Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save.

32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

Referring to Jesus who came in the name of the Lord - as "Christ the King of Israel".

The Anti-Christ, the concept is to be the King of Israel, coming in his own name - instead of and against the Rightful King of Israel - Jesus.

Douggg · Nov 1, 2020

iamlamad, one of the things to note is that the great opposer to Jesus comes in his own name - regarding becoming the Antichrist.

Then later, when the person becomes the beast, the three requirements to buy and/or sell is tied to his name.

1. his name.
2. the number of his name
3. the mark of his name

I don't know what the person's name is yet, as the person has not emerged as the leader of the EU (as the little horn). Maybe someone can figure it out before then.

Timtofly · Nov 1, 2020

Freedm said:
I want you all to consider the alien connection. Obviously there have been millions of UFO sightings around the world and throughout the ages, and since it's extremely unlikely that any human government is flying these craft around, it's safe to assume they're being piloted by "aliens", aka fallen angels.

Now further assuming that you agree with my statement above, can you really foresee an end of the earth scenario where aliens play no part in it at all?

And when you consider that the mark of the beast requires the entire world to worship the beast, thereby leaving behind Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism, etc. to all agree that this beast is worthy of worship, under what circumstances can any of you actually foresee this happening?

In my opinion, the only scenario I can imagine that would cause the entire world to drop existing religions and worship a "beast" is one where aliens come down and tell us that they created us and that "man made religions" are all false. No other scenario, in my mind, could possibly bring us to that point.

And I also can't imagine an end of earth scenario where aliens and UFOs turn out to be no factor at all. They must play a part in all this.

Many humans know religions are false, even without the word of aliens. Religion has failed people. Where in Revelation does John point out technology or fallen angels?

What about the point this is only the final harvest. Satan is allowed 42 months. God is the final say on what is what. God removes all that is God from the earth. People still have a free choice to follow and worship Satan or have their head cut off. That is about as basic and non dramatic as God's Word can be.

Timtofly · Nov 1, 2020

Douggg said:
iamlamad, one of the things to note is that the great opposer to Jesus comes in his own name - regarding becoming the Antichrist.

Then later, when the person becomes the beast, the three requirements to buy and/or sell is tied to his name.

1. his name.
2. the number of his name
3. the mark of his name

I don't know what the person's name is yet, as the person has not emerged as the leader of the EU (as the little horn). Maybe someone can figure it out before then.

The FP is the only person. The FP was, was not, and will be again. Satan has been a Greek god for 2500 years. The image that is given life is the only beast left. This 42 months is all there is relating to Satan. The Trumpets and Thunders is the final harvest. Not much room to do any more speculation.

Douggg · Nov 1, 2020

Timtofly said:
The FP is the only person. The FP was, was not, and will be again. Satan has been a Greek god for 2500 years. The image that is given life is the only beast left. This 42 months is all there is relating to Satan. The Trumpets and Thunders is the final harvest. Not much room to do any more speculation.

Tim, there will be three persons that will be removed from the temple mount at Jesus's return. The beast, the false prophet, and Satan.

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Timtofly · Nov 1, 2020

Douggg said:
Tim, there will be three persons that will be removed from the temple mount at Jesus's return. The beast, the false prophet, and Satan.

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Satan is not a 3 person in one being.

Satan is an angel, not a person.

The beast is an image with Satan's "breath" giving it life. It is not a person. See Revelation 13:15: Satan is permitted/allowed to breathe a spirit/breath of life into the image, and it spoke. That is the third beast of Satan's 42 months. Why do people fail to see the similarity of God breathing life into Adam and Satan allowed to do the same same thing to a "robot" made into the image of the FP? Adam is the name of the man owning up to 666. Mankind is the whole family offspring of just one created being, Adam. Is there genetics of other sons of God mixed in? Genesis hints at that plausible fact. The image is Satan's own ability to create his own Adam. He did not even make an image of himself. It was an image in the form of the FP.

The only person is the FP.

Douggg · Nov 1, 2020

Timtofly said:
Satan is not a 3 person in one being.

Satan is an angel, not a person.

Satan is not a 3 person in one being, agreed. Satan is an angel agreed. But Satan is a person, albeit certainly not a human person.

Timtofly said:
The beast is an image with Satan's "breath" giving it life. It is not a person. See Revelation 13:15: Satan is permitted/allowed to breathe a spirit/breath of life into the image, and it spoke. That is the third beast of Satan's 42 months.

The abomination of desolation is the statue image that the false prophet has the world make. Initially, it is lifeless. Then by lying wonder, the false prophet does a miracles (but a lying miracle) of bringing the inanimate image to life - by Satan incarnating the statue image of the beast.

There is not three beasts. There are two beasts and the abominantion of desolation statue image (which will be incarnated by Satan).

Timtofly · Nov 1, 2020

Douggg said:
Satan is not a 3 person in one being, agreed. Satan is an angel agreed. But Satan is a person, albeit certainly not a human person.

The abomination of desolation is the statue image that the false prophet has the world make. Initially, it is lifeless. Then by lying wonder, the false prophet does a miracles (but a lying miracle) of bringing the inanimate image to life - by Satan incarnating the statue image of the beast.

There is not three beasts. There are two beasts and the abominantion of desolation statue image (which will be incarnated by Satan).

The dragon is Satan. The beast with two horns like a Lamb and spoke as a dragon is Satan. Satan is allowed, not the FP.

There is the FP, Satan and the image/beast. If you add a human Antichrist that is 4 beast.

Revelation 16:13
13 "And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of that dragon, and out of the mouth of that beast, and out of the mouth of that false prophet."

The spirit that Satan placed in the image came back out of the beast. There are only 3 beasts, not two humans and Satan. If there was a human Antichrist, John should have placed him in chapter 16 as the fourth entity. If you deny the image is not in 16 or have a spirit in it, and claim the beast is an Antichrist, that is your own interpretation added to God's Word. We clearly see in 13 that Satan placed a spirit into the image, and still no Antichrist pointed out. Antichrist does not come out of the abyss/land. We see Satan standing on the land, and coming in and out of the abyss. Satan speaks like a dragon, because the dragon is symbolic of Satan. Satan is the Greek god, portrayed with two lamb's horns. His deception and alliance with the Greeks is prophesied by Daniel, and confirmed by Paul as still ongoing in the NT. Satan moved on with the Romans and still in Rome to this day. Just waiting for Jesus and the 144k to finish the final harvest, and then Satan is going to bring the FP and demand control of Jerusalem. Then set up the image as the Abomination of Desolation. After giving life to the image, all sheol will break out on earth. Not that God had already prepared everything in the Trumpets and Thunders. John does not give us all specifics of Satan's time. Nor should he. Enough was given to detest Satan and those who follow him.

Choose Wisely · Nov 1, 2020

wisdompersonified said:
The Bible talks about the beast that was and is not, yet is in Revelation 17. John also gave us clues as to who this might be.

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

This tells us that this beast was alive, he's not alive now(at the time John wrote this) but he will live again most likely in the body of a present day leader.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

This is pretty clear and in this case John predicted the short reign of Nerva.

The one that is would have been Domitian. Nerva was Emperor after Domitian for 15 months. Who were the 5 that had fallen?

Galba, Otho, Vitellius, Vespasian and Titus.

Now the first 3 before Vespasian and Nerva ruled for short periods of time. Vespasian, Titus and Domitian had the biggest impact on the Jews.

Titus destroyed the 2nd Temple in 70 A.D under Vespasian as Emperor.

He wanted to capture the Temple for Rome and put Roman gods in it but it was on fire so he decided to destroy it in such a way that Jerusalem would be forgotten. Just like Jesus predicted.

Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, “See ye not all these things? Verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here one stone upon another that shall not be thrown down.”

The wailing wall isn't the site of the 2nd Temple. Neither is the Temple Mount. The Temple Mount is an old Roman fort.

The Bible said, he will be an eighth king but part of the 7. It also says this 8th king will be the soul of of one of the 7 that ascends out of the bottomless pit. I believe it will ascend and enter the body of the beast that get's the deadly wound that's healed.

Now, out of these 7, I think it will be Vespasian, Titus or Domitian. Like I said, Titus destroyed the 2nd Temple, Vespasian would throw Jews in the water to see if they float and Domitian was a tyrant. It could be any 1 of the 7 though.

The Beast that was and is not and will ascend out of the pit is Nimrod. He is the Assyrian. He is the Antichrist.

Douggg · Nov 2, 2020

Timtofly said:
The dragon is Satan. The beast with two horns like a Lamb and spoke as a dragon is Satan. Satan is allowed, not the FP.

Tim, the beast with the two horns like a lamb in Revelation 13 who speaks as a dragon - does not mean that beast is Satan. It just means that the person is a religious figure, but he is a mouthpiece for Satan.

Choose Wisely · Nov 2, 2020

Douggg said:
Tim, the beast with the two horns like a lamb in Revelation 13 who speaks as a dragon - does not mean that beast is Satan. It just means that the person is a religious figure, but he is a mouthpiece for Satan.

The beast has two horns, meaning there are two people. This can be proven if you look at the end of Rev 11.(Correction Daniel 11)

iamlamad · Nov 2, 2020

Douggg said:
"Anti" is a prefix meaning against and sometimes instead of. In the case of the great opposer to Jesus - both, when the person is the Antichrist.

Jesus was the rightful King of Israel coming in the name of the Lord. Another person, Jesus says the Jews would accept coming in his own name, John 5:43.

John 12:13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Mark 15:
31 Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save.

32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

Referring to Jesus who came in the name of the Lord - as "Christ the King of Israel".

The Anti-Christ, the concept is to be the King of Israel, coming in his own name - instead of and against the Rightful King of Israel - Jesus.

To me that is stretching.

Douggg · Nov 2, 2020

Choose Wisely said:
The beast has two horns, meaning there are two people. This can be proven if you look at the end of Rev 11.

Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The first beast is a person (and his kingdom). The second beast (having the two horns like a lamb) is the false prophet, a person, who will have done miracles in the presence of the first beast.

Those two are cast alive into the lake of fire.

____________________________________________________________

Differently, Satan is cast into the bottomless pit, Revelation 20:1-3, where he will remain for a thousand years. Then is released for a short time, before he too is cast into the lake of fire.

My friends, stop disagreeing over things like this.

Choose Wisely · Nov 2, 2020

Douggg said:
The first beast is a person (and his kingdom). The second beast (having the two horns like a lamb) is the false prophet, a person, who will have done miracles in the presence of the first beast.

Those two are cast alive into the lake of fire.

Sorry Doug. I said Rev 11, and meant Daniel 11.

The first beast is the little horn. The first beast is Nimrod, the Antichrist. The second beast has two horns. The second beast is two people as we can prove by the reading the end of Daniel 11.

Douggg · Nov 2, 2020

Choose Wisely said:
Sorry Doug. I said Rev 11, and meant Daniel 11.

The first beast is the little horn. The first beast is Nimrod, the Antichrist. The second beast has two horns. The second beast is two people as we can prove by the reading the end of Daniel 11.

The second beast is the false prophet - one person. Revelation 13:14 and Revelation 19:20 are connected. The second beast is the false prophet person identified in both Revelation 13:14 and Revelation 19:20 by doing miracles when the first beast person is present.

Timtofly · Nov 2, 2020

Douggg said:
Tim, the beast with the two horns like a lamb in Revelation 13 who speaks as a dragon - does not mean that beast is Satan. It just means that the person is a religious figure, but he is a mouthpiece for Satan.

Except that beast has been the one in 2 Thessalonians 2 who rejects Torah for 2500 years nonstop. It is not a system, because he went from the Greeks to the Romans to the Vatican, no? Satan enabled Antiochus Epiphanies, the first false prophet. The FP is the one who is, who was not, yet is again. The system was the first beast out of the sea. One defined the first time by Antiochus Epiphanies.

Going back to Job and the council of God as reference. Satan can only be allowed permission. Satan does not do the dirty work himself. Satan can only be the one with two horns that seems to stand "behind the scenes". Yet only can get God to allow certain things. God would not let just some human FP call the shots and demand to be allowed to do anything. Notice that even the first beast (FP) is given power by the dragon. "To it the dragon gave its power, its throne and great authority." This is not referring to a future kingdom. It was the whole system from the Greeks, to Rome, to the harlot church. Some modern religious human will step forward and be the FP, as the voice of Satan to present Satan to the world. Then comes a Antichrist. Modern theology is wrong placing a human ruler first as an Antichrist. There have been many Antichrist out of this system, but after the Second Coming it will be a FP, a religious human to present Satan to the world. When the church leaves all religions will be in a vacuum, because all were left behind and wrong. While the Lamb is doing the final harvest, Satan will be working on a counter religion to give humans a competition to the Lamb. We are talking about Satan's plans and humans are just puppets. Even this so called NWO, or reset. Satan knows it is too close to the Second Coming now to use that. They will be dropped like a hot potato, when it is religion again front and center. It has to be a FP as the first beast, because John saw it that way, not guessed at the signs of the times.

Choose Wisely · Nov 2, 2020

Douggg said:
The second beast is the false prophet - one person. Revelation 13:14 and Revelation 19:20 are connected. The second beast is the false prophet person identified in both Revelation 13:14 and Revelation 19:20 by doing miracles when the first beast person is present.

The second beast has two horns and is two people. The end of Dan 11 proves this.

FulfilledInHim · Nov 2, 2020

wisdompersonified said:
The Bible talks about the beast that was and is not, yet is in Revelation 17. John also gave us clues as to who this might be.

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

This tells us that this beast was alive, he's not alive now(at the time John wrote this) but he will live again most likely in the body of a present day leader.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

This is pretty clear and in this case John predicted the short reign of Nerva.

The one that is would have been Domitian. Nerva was Emperor after Domitian for 15 months. Who were the 5 that had fallen?

Galba, Otho, Vitellius, Vespasian and Titus.

Now the first 3 before Vespasian and Nerva ruled for short periods of time. Vespasian, Titus and Domitian had the biggest impact on the Jews.

Titus destroyed the 2nd Temple in 70 A.D under Vespasian as Emperor.

He wanted to capture the Temple for Rome and put Roman gods in it but it was on fire so he decided to destroy it in such a way that Jerusalem would be forgotten. Just like Jesus predicted.

Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, “See ye not all these things? Verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here one stone upon another that shall not be thrown down.”

The wailing wall isn't the site of the 2nd Temple. Neither is the Temple Mount. The Temple Mount is an old Roman fort.

The Bible said, he will be an eighth king but part of the 7. It also says this 8th king will be the soul of of one of the 7 that ascends out of the bottomless pit. I believe it will ascend and enter the body of the beast that get's the deadly wound that's healed.

Now, out of these 7, I think it will be Vespasian, Titus or Domitian. Like I said, Titus destroyed the 2nd Temple, Vespasian would throw Jews in the water to see if they float and Domitian was a tyrant. It could be any 1 of the 7 though.

Well done to tie the historic fulfillment of the 1st Century Roman Empire into the prophesy. One very important caveat is the oldest recovered version of Revelation from Syria in the 3rd Century was entitled:

“The Revelation which was made by God to John the evangelist in the island of Patmos, into which he was thrown by Nero Caesar.”

Thus, from the oldest and most important versions in our possession comes unequivocal testimony placing the Revelation in the time of Nero.

Why is this important ? Because it would easily identify the “five who are fallen” of Revelation 17:10, as

Julius Caesar
Octavian (Augustus) (Messiah is born)
Tiberius (Messiah’s 3 1/2 year earthly Ministry)
Caligula
Claudius.

The one that is:

6. Nero Caesar = 600 60 and 6 (his number is the number of a man)

“The other has not yet come, and when he comes he must continue for a short time”

7. Vespasian

After Nero’s death in 68AD the Roman Empire was thrown into a civil war amidst the 3 1/2 year long campaign to squash the Jewish Rebellion. This was the “deadly wound” of Revelation 13:3. He was actually stabbed in the neck with a sword. So this prompted the “year of 4 Emperors” where 3 emperors came consecutively to take Nero’s seat but all were killed and Vespasian (Nero’s head General) took his seat “before whom 3 of the previous horns fell” Daniel 7:20.

So Vespasian being the 7th was the head of the Beast that destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple.

Revelation 17:11 “The Beast that was, and is not, is Himself also the 8th, and isn’t of the seven, and is going to perish”

So the Beast itself, the Ancient Roman Empire under these kings, which was, then is not (amidst the civil wars and imminent crumbling of the Empire), is Himself the 8th (a number of resurrection and new beginnings. The resurrected Roman Empire under Vespasian, whose son Titus fulfills Daniel 9:26 as “the prince who is to come” He Himself becomes Emperor with with father and takes the throne upon his death, becomes the 8th king.

Hope you could follow. But the revelation of fulfilled prophesy is awesome!

FulfilledInHim · Nov 2, 2020

FulfilledInHim said:
Well done to tie the historic fulfillment of the 1st Century Roman Empire into the prophesy. One very important caveat is the oldest recovered version of Revelation from Syria in the 3rd Century was entitled:

“The Revelation which was made by God to John the evangelist in the island of Patmos, into which he was thrown by Nero Caesar.”

Thus, from the oldest and most important versions in our possession comes unequivocal testimony placing the Revelation in the time of Nero.

Why is this important ? Because it would easily identify the “five who are fallen” of Revelation 17:10, as

Julius Caesar

Octavian (Augustus) (Messiah is born)

Tiberius (Messiah’s 3 1/2 year earthly Ministry)

Caligula

Claudius.

The one that is:

6. Nero Caesar = 600 60 and 6 (his number is the number of a man)

“The other has not yet come, and when he comes he must continue for a short time”

7. Vespasian

After Nero’s death in 68AD the Roman Empire was thrown into a civil war amidst the 3 1/2 year long campaign to squash the Jewish Rebellion. This was the “deadly wound” of Revelation 13:3. He was actually stabbed in the neck with a sword. So this prompted the “year of 4 Emperors” where 3 emperors came consecutively to take Nero’s seat but all were killed and Vespasian (Nero’s head General) took his seat “before whom 3 of the previous horns fell” Daniel 7:20.

So Vespasian being the 7th was the head of the Beast that destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple.

Revelation 17:11 “The Beast that was, and is not, is Himself also the 8th, and isn’t of the seven, and is going to perish”

So the Beast itself, the Ancient Roman Empire under these kings, which was, then is not (amidst the civil wars and imminent crumbling of the Empire), is Himself the 8th (a number of resurrection and new beginnings. The resurrected Roman Empire under Vespasian, whose son Titus fulfills Daniel 9:26 as “the prince who is to come” He Himself becomes Emperor with with father and takes the throne upon his death, becomes the 8th king.

Hope you could follow. But the revelation of fulfilled prophesy is awesome!

IS of the seven.

Douggg · Nov 2, 2020

Choose Wisely said:
The second beast has two horns and is two people. The end of Dan 11 proves this.

I don't know why you keep insisting two horns means two people. The second beast in Revelation 13 is the false prophet, one person.

What's your rationale of why the end of Daniel 11 proves the second beast is two persons?

The Beast that was and is not identified

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