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Paul: "That if thou shalt confess(once) with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe(once) in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shall be saved." Rom 10:9 ... vs ...
5 For Moses writes that the man (singular) who practices the righteousness (singular) which is [b]based on law shall live [c]by that righteousness. 6 But the righteousness (singular)[d]based on faith speaks as follows: Do not say in your heart, Who will ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or Who will descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heartthat is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 [e]that if you confess (singular) with your (singular) mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you (singular) will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person (singular) believes, [f]resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, [g]resulting in salvation.
Who confesses with his mouth and who will be saved? The answer is the man that talks about in verse 5. The verses are grammatically correct. You can not be talking of A man and use the plural tense.
Messiah: "For Elohim so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever continues to be faithfully obedient in Him should not perish, but should have everlasting life." Jn 3:16
where are you getting the "continues to be faithfully obedient'? That is not a translation but an interpretation. The verb is rendered here in the present active nominative and it is singular. The action is immediate, today, and acts as a predicative nominative which open the option of "to become" in the future.
ἀπόληται- is rendered as aorist middle subjunctive. It is not a first aorist. The middle voice is tied to the verb "perish" and denotes that the action belongs to the subject. The subjunctive mood presents the verbal action as being intentional. Nothing in the grammar supports a translation to "should".
I believe in Messiah, not Paul!
That particular form of the greek word #2334 is used 1 time in the Gospels..John 4:19
Search for 'Genesis 1:1' in the version
Young) Acts 27:10 saying to them, `Men, I perceive/qewrw <2334> (5719 that with hurt and much damage, not only of the lading and of the ship, but also of our lives--the voyage is about to be;'
Young) John 4:19 The woman saith to him, `Sir, I perceive/qewrw <2334> (5719) that thou art a prophet;
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Luke told the story of Jesus choosing Paul. Do you believe Luke?
I believe in Messiah, not Paul!
I await his reply, i asked over and over if Luke lied, or vastly mistaken in all his Paul support...
Lets not forget that Peter also supported and recognized Paul.
Amen bro..
I guess Peter does not fit his "witness" criteria thing he kept talkling about on the other thread..
That's the fallacy of the non-Pauline crowd. If they remove Paul they also have to remove the Gospel of Luke, Acts, and the two epistles of Peter. Also, if they remove Peter then there goes the rest of the gospels. Their bible is terribly light.
Oh, and lets not forget that there is a strong possibility that Hebrews was written by Paul.
Two things.
Someone mentioned earlier that Luke/Acts is rejected as apostolic, so which is it? Inspired or not?
Paul dosen't say any will die, just hurt and damaged. The word for "safe" is diasozo "in the Active Voice, "to bring safely through a danger" (dia, "through," intensive, sozo, "to save"), " blueletterbible.org
It seems to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you are stating that Luke & Acts are either "Scripture" or "not Scripture," and if they are not Scripture, that the whole book(s) must be thrown out. I present a third position - I contend that most of Acts is most likely a historical work by a fallible, historical man (Luke), who wrote the account to the best of his ability based on second-hand hearsay information. As history, I believe many parts of Acts are accurate, many parts are questionable (because there are no additional witnesses as required by YHVH & Yehoshua ), and many parts are untrue. Are school books considered 100% worthless because parts of them are likely conjectures?
ζημίας - damage to a ψυχῶν- soul from a physical action (violent voyage), can only mean death.
Luke told the story of Jesus choosing Paul. Do you believe Luke?
ὁμολογήσῃς, as found in Rom 10:9, is in the Greek aorist tense. The aorist tense shows a one-time action. ὁμολογήσῃς is thus most accurately translated "one-time confession". Belief, in that same verse, is also in the aorist tense. Paul claims salvation comes through a one-time confession & one-time belief.
Perhaps the anti-Paul folks also view Aninias as being delusionalThat's the fallacy of the non-Pauline crowd. If they remove Paul they also have to remove the Gospel of Luke, Acts, and the two epistles of Peter. Also, if they remove Peter then there goes the rest of the gospels. Their bible is terribly light.
Oh, and lets not forget that there is a strong possibility that Hebrews was written by Paul.
Apparently he doesn't. Not sure the criteria he uses by which to decide.
I was emphasizing where Paul stated "μέλλειν ἔσεσθαι".Paul did not "claim" such a thing at all. Paul "perceived" not "foresee". ... He was not making a prophetic statement but merely stating what the captain of the vessel should know.
I was emphasizing where Paul stated "μέλλειν ἔσεσθαι".
If Paul was not prophesying (speaking for Elohim) here, then how do you know he was prophesying (speaking for Elohim) in any of his epistles?
Sorry, you'll need to re?-study the action of the different Greek tenses. They do not work the same as in English. Also, "plural" is not a tense.The verses are grammatically correct. You can not be talking of A man and use the plural tense.
The present tense in Greek is not the same as the present tense in English!where are you getting the "continues to be faithfully obedient'? That is not a translation but an interpretation. The verb is rendered here in the present active nominative and it is singular. The action is immediate, today, and acts as a predicative nominative which open the option of "to become" in the future.
"the subjunctive as indicating something that is not “is” but is “uncertain but probable”ἀπόληται- is rendered as aorist middle subjunctive. It is not a first aorist. The middle voice is tied to the verb "perish" and denotes that the action belongs to the subject. The subjunctive mood presents the verbal action as being intentional. Nothing in the grammar supports a translation to "should".
I was emphasizing where Paul stated "μέλλειν ἔσεσθαι".
If Paul was not prophesying (speaking for Elohim) here, then how do you know he was prophesying (speaking for Elohim) in any of his epistles?
Perhaps the anti-Paul folks also view Aninias as being delusional
YoungLT) Acts 15:10 And there was a certain disciple in Damascus, by name Ananias, and the Lord said unto him in a vision, `Ananias;' and he said, `Behold me, Lord;'
11 and the Lord [saith] unto him, `Having risen, go on unto the street that is called Straight, and seek in the house of Judas, [one] by name Saul of Tarsus, for, lo, he doth pray,12 and he saw in a vision a man, by name Ananias, coming in, and putting a hand on him, that he may see again.'
13 And Ananias answered, `Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how many evils he did to Thy saints in Jerusalem,
14 and here he hath authority from the chief priests, to bind all those calling on Thy name.'
15 And the Lord said unto him, `Be going on, because a choice vessel to Me is this one, to bear My name before nations and kings--the sons also of Israel;
16 for I will shew him how many things it behoveth him for My name to suffer.'
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