The Atheist could be wrong for many good reasons

[HitchSlap]

Well as I have said before , atheists say there is no God ,not that they hav'nt arrived yet , that they have doubts , that they are seeking . There is no God they say . This is a very ignorant position , as all it means ,is that for some reason they have been denied access .

Why is it, do you think, that we have been "denied access"?

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

What do gods have to do with science? If it is of no scientific significance, it is not science. That is axiomatic.

What's the need for atheists to make their atheism about science if science has nothing to with it? Above is an atom, and below is turning the Christian Fish into evolution.

 

[Davian]

What's the need for atheists to make their atheism about science if science has nothing to with it?

Nice dodge.

Above is an atom, and below is turning the Christian Fish into evolution.

I don't know. It could be that atheism, as a theological position, is the most compatible with modern science.

 

[davedajobauk]

This thread was started by a Christian and specifically targeted Atheism. There's nothing stopping Christians from making topics, having discussions, debating their points here.

I have already pointed out that the OP is not a Christian (in a trinitarian sense)

Better you call him as he describes himself ~as a UNITARIAN

Just saying

 

[Anguspure]

I don't know. It could be that atheism, as a theological position, is the most compatible with modern science.

Atheism is a theological interpretation of Materialistic Naturalism. The scientific world (From within a theistic culture) adopted Methodological Naturalism initially as a limiting boundary to simplify and ground scientific investigation in the physically observable world.

This has however become a dogma (not withstanding some cosmological and sub-atomic speculation) promoted by Atheists and been mistaken for a boundary on the truth about the life the universe and everything, this in spite of the epistemic problems caused.

Modern science is in fact becoming increasingly difficult to maintain within the boundaries of Materialism and the more we discover, the more those with their hearts towards Theos are vindicated.

 

[HitchSlap]

Atheism is a theological interpretation of Materialistic Naturalism. The scientific world (From within a theistic culture) adopted Methodological Naturalism initially as a limiting boundary to simplify and ground scientific investigation in the physically observable world.

This has however become a dogma (not withstanding some cosmological and sub-atomic speculation) promoted by Atheists and been mistaken for a boundary on the truth about the life the universe and everything, this in spite of the epistemic problems caused.

Modern science is in fact becoming increasingly difficult to maintain within the boundaries of Materialism and the more we discover, the more those with their hearts towards Theos are vindicated.

On the contrary. Every gap that god once dwelled, are all becoming too small for habitation.
The more we know, the less sense "goddidit" as an explanation makes.

 

[Davian]

Atheism is a theological interpretation of Materialistic Naturalism.

Not in the manner that I use the word.

The scientific world (From within a theistic culture) adopted Methodological Naturalism initially as a limiting boundary to simplify and ground scientific investigation in the physically observable world.

This has however become a dogma

It never ceases to amaze me how religionists just make up stuff like this, and use their own terms in the pejorative.

(not withstanding some cosmological and sub-atomic speculation) promoted by Atheists

Since when does atheist equate with cosmologist or physicist?

and been mistaken

Atheism is not a truth statement.

for a boundary on the truth about the life the universe and everything, this in spite of the epistemic problems caused.

To paraphrase Winston Churchill, science is the worst way to investigate reality, but all the others have been tried.

Modern science is in fact becoming increasingly difficult to maintain within the boundaries of Materialism and the more we discover, the more those with their hearts towards Theos are vindicated.

<citation missing>

 

[Eudaimonist]

Atheism is a theological interpretation of Materialistic Naturalism.

No, that is just one sort of worldview that a portion of atheists have. Atheism is just the lack of belief in divine beings.

[Methodological Naturalism] has however become a dogma (not withstanding some cosmological and sub-atomic speculation) promoted by Atheists and been mistaken for a boundary on the truth about the life the universe and everything, this in spite of the epistemic problems caused.

I suspect that you are calling atheists "scientistic" here, and that is at best a charge leveled against only some atheists. There are plenty of atheists who are philosophical, and who don't view science as the sole means of knowledge generation. And even that does not save religious dogmas.

Modern science is in fact becoming increasingly difficult to maintain within the boundaries of Materialism

According to whom? How am I to know that this is a "fact"?

the more those with their hearts towards Theos are vindicated.

I am certain that some theists will feel vindicated at even the craziest of creationist dogma. I don't see much real vindication going on, unless you want to create a strawman of atheism as conforming to some narrow views on "materialism".


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Anguspure]

On the contrary. Every gap that god once dwelled, are all becoming too small for habitation.
The more we know, the less sense "goddidit" as an explanation makes.

It is true that gaps in our knowledge have often been filled with a simply "Goddidit" and that's all, Augustine despaired about Believers doing this even in his time.
But all I hear you proclaiming (by analogy) is that because we understand a whole lot more about the internal combustion engine and the design of the motor car we now have good reason to deny that Henry Ford (or any other pioneering vehicle man) ever existed.
Clearly you assertion is absurd. To a clear thinker a clearer understanding of the universe and the world leads one to marvel more at the work of the Creator, not to deny His influence because we don't find a fairy hiding in the garden.
It is not because of gaps in our knowledge that confidence in the Creator is increasing but rather because knowledge has increased.
Paul had reason to write that "For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.", in the first century.
Nobody in the first century new anything about the beginning of the universe, cosmic fine tuning, the mysteries of biology, chemistry and physics, how much little excuse do the people of the earth have today?
Jesus said:"If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father." Even though He was referring to the works he had done before the people of Palestine at the time, I can't but help to think that there is something to be said here of the attitude of the unbelievers today.

 

[Anguspure]

No, that is just one sort of worldview that a portion of atheists have. Atheism is just the lack of belief in divine beings.

......Which logically stems from naturalism.

I suspect that you are calling atheists "scientistic" here, and that is at best a charge leveled against only some atheists. There are plenty of atheists who are philosophical, and who don't view science as the sole means of knowledge generation. And even that does not save religious dogmas.

Nevertheless there is a clear epistemological problem that makes any atheistic view self defeating.

According to whom? How am I to know that this is a "fact"?

Thomas Nagel, for example, who is honest enough to address the problem even if the conclusion is beyond him.

I am certain that some theists will feel vindicated at even the craziest of creationist dogma.

I am sure you are right but the cranky view of even a majority does nothing to negate the evidence.

I don't see much real vindication going on, unless you want to create a strawman of atheism as conforming to some narrow views on "materialism".

Forgive me but if Atheism denies any "divine beings" then this is what Atheism means. If there are no "divine beings" then there is no room for any being that does not originate from within the physical universe (for this is what "divine being" usually means) and therefore beings must only exist within the material world, and this would be a view that stems from materialism.

eudaimonia,

Quite, but not without the Spirit.

 

[Freodin]

Since you are sure that Christians are wrong why do you need us so much ,we can't
get rid of you parasites on our forums

Well, to respond to your question: I don't need you at all.

I just like to point out - for many good reasons - that for a group of people who claim to have access to divine guidance, you very often show a definite lack of... how to phrase it nicely... "wisdom".

This was demonstrated in Dave's post I pointed out, when he instantly replied to being called out on his mistakes by denying them and blaming me for it, then after me explicitly showing them to him, him evading. Christians just love to point out that they are "not perfect, just forgiven"... but they are much too often too reluctant to admit their mistakes.

And it is demonstrated in this very post of yours here, where you spout insults and meaningless non-sequitur questions instead of showing a glimpse of this divine wisdom that Christians love to claim for themselves.

Just to clarify, to counter any such accusations from the start: I am not an atheist because of all those "mean Christians" who insult me. But the very existence of these Christians, the predominace of this stance in many Christians, the support they get from other Christians and the lack of criticism they receive from their fellows... all that only strengthens my notion that Christianity has nothing to offer me.

And I do wonder... if we accept the position that we unbelievers are just yapping little parasitic dogs invading the private space of Christians, we should expect them to act like the parasites they are, shouldn't we?
But why do Christians like yourself and davedajobauk see no problems with breaking the rules of this Christian Forum of yours, rules that you certainly have read before you accepted them and registered here?

So how about you show some of this Christian love, your willingness to repend your sins... and apologize to all the people you insulted here?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

It is true that gaps in our knowledge have often been filled with a simply "Goddidit" and that's all, Augustine despaired about Believers doing this even in his time.
But all I hear you proclaiming (by analogy) is that because we understand a whole lot more about the internal combustion engine and the design of the motor car we now have good reason to deny that Henry Ford (or any other pioneering vehicle man) ever existed.
Clearly you assertion is absurd. To a clear thinker a clearer understanding of the universe and the world leads one to marvel more at the work of the Creator, not to deny His influence because we don't find a fairy hiding in the garden.

I am reminded of a certain Douglas Adams quote...

It is not because of gaps in our knowledge that confidence in the Creator is increasing but rather because knowledge has increased.

You'll need to elaborate further. In what way has the growth of knowledge increased confidence in the supernatural claims of religion?

Paul had reason to write that "For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.", in the first century.

Yes, and the Quran followed this by claiming that believers of the preceding faiths (Christianity and Judaism) were without excuse for denying the doctrines of Islam.

Nobody in the first century new anything about the beginning of the universe, cosmic fine tuning, the mysteries of biology, chemistry and physics, how much little excuse do the people of the earth have today?

In what way does any of this constitute evidence for a deity?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Since you are sure that Christians are wrong why do you need us so much ,we can't
get rid of you parasites on our forums

You are here voluntarily on a forum dedicated to the "critical examination of the rational grounds of our most fundamental beliefs and logical analysis of the basic concepts employed in the expression of such beliefs" (Concise Encyclopedia). If you cannot engage in accordance with the forum's intended purpose, then I suggest posting elsewhere, in forums where the standards are much more lax, such as Theology. Since that forum is restricted to Christian's only, you won't encounter any "parasites" asking you to support your claims, and you can make whatever empty claims you like. Is that more to your liking?

 

[newhopeinHim]

You don't challenge anything , you are more like little barking dogs, who have no higher purpose than to make a noise, thinking you will frighten us, or make us walk in an other direction .

AMEN!!!

 

[Archaeopteryx]

This thread seems to be attracting tourists.

 

[newhopeinHim]

Its like the atheist lurk and wait for our replies, then slam us. They are always on here just waiting is what I have noticed.

 

[Freodin]

AMEN!!!

Dear newhopeinHim,

underneath every post you will find a "Like" button. It achieves the same effect as your post here, including the notification that the original poster got... and it has the additional benefit that it doesn't make it too obvious that you are here cheering for a person insulting others.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Its like the atheist lurk and wait for our replies, then slam us. They are always on here just waiting is what I have noticed.

I've never seen you on the Philosophy forum. The Areas tab of your profile suggests you have only 15 posts in this forum to date, and yet you act like we are the intruders. Yes, we are on here - here being the Philosophy forum. Many of us have been here for years without anyone complaining about us "lurking." You would know that if you actually spent more than 5 minutes in this forum before pronouncing judgment on its most regular contributors.

 

[newhopeinHim]

okay

 

[HitchSlap]

Its like the atheist lurk and wait for our replies, then slam us. They are always on here just waiting is what I have noticed.

You'll be happy to hear then, that while I was lurking yesterday, we (atheists) were called "stupid," "foolish," and a "parasite."

AMEN???

BTW, since we're noticing things, I noticed you're new here, so "Welcome."