the apocalypse

[ewq1938]

Six hundred threescore and six =666

Yes but what has been proposed is that 666 can also be 6,6,6 just three sixes and that is wrong.

 

[Waterwerx]

Some wonder what the mark of the Beast of Revelation 13 will look.
The mark (his symbol) will contain ,the number of his name.
The hexagram.

“A hexagram must be present to call forth a demon” and ” it is a very powerful tool to invoke Satan”.
–
“To the sorcerer, the hexagram is a powerful tool to invoke Satan.” In fact, the word “hex” — as to put a “hex” or “curse” on people — comes from this word.
–
If you examine the so-called “Star of David,” or hexagram, closely, you will discover something astonishing. It has six points, forms six equilateral triangles, and in its interior forms a six sided hexagon — thus it reveals the number of Satan’ antichrist beast, — 6 points, 6 triangles, and the 6 sides of the hexagram — 666 !!!


Revelation 13
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.[/img]

Sorry, but you're confusing the hexagram with that of the pentagram. It's the pentagram that is used for the symbol in Satanism, which symbolizes the goat-head.

 

[Revealing Times]

the three johns
-
this is perhaps the most outrageous part of my presentation -
so let's get this over with -
I am not the first one to suggest that john the baptist first wrote the apocalypse - nor am I the first one to suggest there were multiple authors -
I am the first one to suggest that they were all named john, all three of them, just as they are mentioned in the first chapter -
it all starts with eusebius and victorinus who don't seem to be aware of the seven churches and it makes you wonder what they were reading-
they were reading "ancient copies" of the apocalypse written by john the baptist who obviously did not mention the churches or antipas -
it is just a theory but it is the only thing that makes sense -
today it is easy to research this stuff, it is all online
-
I will be adding to this as time permits -
btw -
the time was near -
when john the baptist was preparing the way

Here is why I don't buy the Three different authors. In the very first verse, Jesus says he gave this Revelation to John. There is a reason that Revelation is unique. John was shown a set of Seven Visions in fast/successive occurrences and he had to write about stuff 2000 years in the future, so he found himself writing these things down as fast as he could, without any order or without writing in conformed manner. He used the word AND over 1200 times AND...AND....AND...AND, etc. etc.

John's Gospel, epistles, and the Revelation contain several commonalties: the words true, lamb, I signify, tribulation, out of, witness, thunder, life, tabernacle (verb), and Word of God. John's writings show the highest usage of articular participles in the New Testament, as does the Revelation. He also shows a fondness for the present tense of "I am coming" (Greek, erchomai) and the verb "I worship."

Why is Revelation So Unique ?

There are several elements that make the Revelation the most unique book in the Bible. The basic structure of the books is woven around a series of thress (3) and sevens (7). The overarching triplet reveals past, present, and future:

1. 
   
   
   • Past: "the things which thou sawest" (chapter 1).
   • Present: "the things which are" (chapters 2-3)
   • Future: "the things which shall come to pass hereafter" (chapters 4-22)

The seven visions are as follows:

1. 
   
   
   • Seven churches (1:0-3:22)
   • Seven seals (4:1-8:1)
   • Seven trumpets (8:2-11:19)
   • Seven symbolic figures (12:1-14:20)
   • Seven bowls (15:1-16:21)
   • Seven judgments (17:1-19:10)
   • Seven triumphs (19:11-22:5)

The use of symbolic numbers is found everywhere in the Apocalypse. These include: ½, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 12, 24, 42, 144, 666, 1,000. 1,260, 7,000, 12,000, 144,000, 100,000,000, and 200,000,000. The term hour is used ten times in Revelation (3:3,10; 9:15; 11:13; 14:7,15; 17:12; 18:10,17,19), always referring to a brief period of time (e.g., "in one hour is they judgment come").

The most significant numbers in the Apocalypse are as follows:

Three is the symbolic number of the Trinity. It is one of John's favorite numbers, and his use of it dominates his writing style. He constantly expresses himself in triplets: "Blessed is he who reads…hears…keeps" (1:3); "Jesus Christ: faithful witness…first begotten of the dead…prince of the kings of the earth" (o1:5); "{He} loves us…washed us…made us king and priests" (1:5-6); "Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come" (1:8); "I am he that liveth…was dead…am alive forevermore" (1:18); "I know thy works…tribulation…poverty" (2:9); "remember…hold fast…repent" (3:3), "buy…gold…white raiment…eyesalve" (3:18). There are scores of these triplets throughout the Book of Revelation.

I think John wrote the Revelation, by himself, he was in Asia Minor, and in Patmos. He used a different style of writing because he was writing a peculiar metaphoric style book, with much that was to be hidden.

 

[Riberra]

Yes but what has been proposed is that 666 can also be 6,6,6 just three sixes and that is wrong.

-You arbitrarily add the , , ,

-Nowhere in the Bible it is said that the number of the beast come from 600 + 60 + 6 added together


Revelation 13
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[ewq1938]

-You arbitrarily add the , , ,

No I don't. That is exactly what is being claimed as fulfilling the prophecy.

-Nowhere in the Bible it is said that the number of the beast come from 600 + 60 + 6 added together

You haven't tried to show 600 60 6 plus "Six hundred threescore and six" is to be automatically added, that's what it means.

 

[Riberra]

Sorry, but you're confusing the hexagram with that of the pentagram. It's the pentagram that is used for the symbol in Satanism, which symbolizes the goat-head.

http://www.christian-restoration.com/occult/symbols.htm

--Hexagram One of the most powerful symbols of the occult, it is used by witches to cast spells. (Not to be confused with the star of David which has no circle around it - although there is a school of thought which says that Israel will reject this occult based symbol when they come to know Jesus as Lord - since this Jewish symbol became established at the time when King Solomon was in disobedience to God, having married foreign wives and joined them in pagan worship)


--Pentagram The five pointed star is an important symbol in magic representing earth, air, fire, water and spirit and is most commonly used by white witches. Used by Freemasonry and the Orange Order (More details)

--Inverted Pentagram The five-pointed star when inverted is associated with 'black' witchcraft and satanism. It symbolizes the goat's head which represents satan (as on the cover of the satanic bible) The two points up signify the horns of baphomet and the three points down represent the Trinity. It is also a reverse of the pentagram above as it signifies contempt for traditional spiritual and occult values. wpe5.jpg (2354 bytes)

 

[Riberra]

No I don't. That is exactly what is being claimed as fulfilling the prophecy.



You haven't tried to show 600 60 6 plus "Six hundred threescore and six" is to be automatically added, that's what it means.

-Do you agree that 666 will be the number of the man of sin/beast ?
-Do you agree that his mark (symbol of his ownership imposed on humans )will include the number of his name ?

-Do you agree that we will know for sure the identity of the man of sin/beast only when he will commit the abomination ie sit in the temple declaring that he is God and setting the talking image ?

 

[ewq1938]

-Do you agree that 666 will be the number of the man of sin/beast ?
-Do you agree that his mark (symbol of his ownership imposed on humans )will include the number of his name ?

-Do you agree that we will know for sure the identity of the man of sin/beast only when he will commit the abomination ie sit in the temple declaring that he is God and setting the talking image ?

Yes to all but that's not what we are discussing currently. The 666 is one number more than 665. It is not three 6's each only meaning 6 like in some design or something like that.

 

[Riberra]

Yes to all but that's not what we are discussing currently. The 666 is one number more than 665. It is not three 6's each only meaning 6 like in some design or something like that.

Simply put, there is no way that we will be able to use whatever mode of calculation to know before hand who is the man of sin/beast.

Because :
we will know for sure the identity of the man of sin/beast only when he will commit the abomination ie sit in the temple declaring that he is God and setting the talking image

 

[victorinus]

Here is why I don't buy the Three different authors.

how do you explain:
-john mentioning his name three times in the first chapter?
-eusebius and victorinus not aware of the seven churches?
-Jesus not mentioned in chapters 4 thru 11?

 

[victorinus]

The text.

what text?

 

[victorinus]

one neat thing about being an historicist is it helps you to interpret other parts of the bible -
sooner or later you have to make your views fit -
we have something the early fathers did not have -
history -
if you think Jesus will reign during the thousand years, you are not going to find it -
where does it say Jesus will reign? -
it doesn't -
finding a thousand year empire in history may just turn a premillennialist into a postmillennialist -
is it important? -
I think not -
but -
we all are supposed to watch -
Blessed is he that watcheth

 

[victorinus]

daniel
-
you can't do the apocalypse without getting into daniel -
-
coming soon
-the four beasts
-the abomination of desolation
-the king of the south
-
back to the apocalypse

 

[victorinus]

the four beasts of daniel
-
I accept three of the usual suspects:
-
babylon..
medo-persian..
greece..
rome..
-
I throw out the one that had nothing to do with the temples -
that being medo-persian, and add another that does
-
islam
-
it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it
-
this from
-
the shadow of the sword by tom holland
-
" Was it possible, they began to ask themselves, that the fourth beast seen by Daniel was not, as had long been presumed, the empire of the Romans, after all? "
-
" Already, by the 660's, there were many prepared to revise their understanding of what Daniel had meant by this vision. ' He is saying, ' so a chronicler in Armenia suggested, ' that this fourth beast, which arises from the south, is the kingdom of the sons of Ishmael. ' "
-
the chronicler in armenia would be sebeos
-
back to daniel
back to the apocalypse

 

[Straightshot]

"who is the king of the south?"

Egypt in the past [Ptolemaic kingdom]

And it will be Egypt again at the time of the end during the tribulation

 

[Revealing Times]

You think Jews keep a copy of the Christian bible in their homes? Not hardly. And they believe that everything in Daniel 9 has already been fulfilled.

Why are you thinking in a box ? I am speaking about Who Israel will be when the 42 Month Reign of the Beast comes, they will have accepted the Messiah, Jesus, as their God. It doesn't matter what they have thought for 2000-3000 years, only what thy think at the time of the AoD.

How does a forced peace agreement on Israel cause a falling away in Christianity? There is no mention of a "peace" agreement in Daniel 9. There is nothing about "peace" in the text.

The Church will not be on earth for the Abomination of Desolation (AoD) or the Forced Agreement. We understand it is a Forced Peace Agreement because of Scriptures. (NIV) Daniel 8:He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many ( KJV says by Peace he destroys many) and take his stand against the Prince of princes. Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power.

The "Falling Away" is a bad teaching IMHO, it means a Departure [of the church]. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is evidence of a Pre-Trib Rapture because it states that “the day of the Lord” (The Tribulation and Millennium) will not occur until “the apostasy comes first.” How does this relate to the timing of the Rapture ? Because the word, “apostasy” can also mean “departure.” And thus, this verse could be saying that the departure of the Church must occur before “the man of lawlessness” (the Antichrist) is revealed and the Tribulation begins. Lets delve into this further.............

The Greek noun, apostasia, is used only twice in the New Testament. The other occurrence is in Acts 21:21 where it states that an accusation was made against Paul that he was “teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake [apostasia] Moses.”

The word is used in verb form a total of 15 times in the New Testament, and only three of these have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, and Hebrews 3:12). In other settings, the word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19), departing from ungodly men (1 Timothy 6:5), departing from the temple (Luke 2:27), departing from the body (2 Corinthians 12:8), and departing from persons (Acts 12:10 and Luke 4:13).

This insight about the use and meaning of the word is certainly compelling, but the best argument that is most convincing to me is that the first seven English translations of the Bible rendered the noun, apostasia, as either “departure” or “departing.” They were as follows:

1. The Wycliffe Bible (1384)
2. The Tyndale Bible (1526)
3. The Coverdale Bible (1535)
4. The Cranmer Bible (1539)
5. The Great Bible (1540)
6. The Beeches Bible (1576)
7. The Geneva Bible (1608)

It also needs to be noted that the Bible used by the Western world from 400 AD to the 1500's — Jerome’s Latin translation known as “The Vulgate” — rendered apostasia with the Latin word, discessio, which means “departure.”

The first translation of the word to mean apostasy in an English Bible did not occur until 1611 when the King James Version was issued. So, why did the King James translators introduce a completely new rendering of the word as “falling away” ? The best guess is that they were taking a stab at what they considered the false teachings of Catholicism.

Paul used a definite article with the word apostasia. The significance of this is emphasized by Daniel Davey in a thesis he wrote for the Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary:

Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article, reference is being made to something in particular. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.

In light of this grammatical point, the use of the definite article would support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernible notion. And that notion he had already identified is in verse 1 when he stated that he was writing about “our gathering together to Him [Jesus].”

This interpretation also corresponds to the point that Paul makes in verses 6 and 7 where he states that the man of lawlessness will not come until what “restrains” him “is taken out of the way.”

And what it is that restrains evil in the world today? The Holy Spirit working through the Church.

 

[victorinus]

"who is the king of the south?"

Egypt in the past [Ptolemaic kingdom]

And it will be Egypt again at the time of the end during the tribulation

that's close -
you are the closest one so far

 

[victorinus]

The Church will not be on earth for the Abomination of Desolation

what is in the holy place now?

 

[Douggg]

The Church will not be on earth for the Abomination of Desolation (AoD) or the Forced Agreement. We understand it is a Forced Peace Agreement because of Scriptures.

No, "we" don't. There is no bible passage collaborating a peace covenant "for 7 years". It doesn't even make sense to have a peace treaty stipulated to last only 7 years.

The 7 year schmitah cycle is well known in Israel and by Jews. The 7 years cycle of confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant is right in the bible, Deuteronomy 31:9-13 - but non of those commentators you are reading and/or listening to it are aware of it.

What you are telling me is a long time popularized view, I think coming out of the Dallas Theological Seminary. I read your comments and I can tell you know nothing about the Jewsish views on the messiah and their other beliefs. Which like you are working with only half the information to understand the end times.

 

[Straightshot]

"No, "we" don't. There is no bible passage collaborating a peace covenant "for 7 years". It doesn't even make sense to have a peace treaty stipulated to last only 7 years."


This is true .... it is the Lord who will confirm His long standing covenant with a believing remnant of Israel [the many] during the coming 70th week decreed [Daniel 9:24-27

This is not a "peace treaty" between the little horn of Daniel's visions and Israel

Like Doug says, the majority of the professing "church" does not understand that the prophecies of the Bible are centered upon the Lord's nation of Israel .... not the "church" of His dispensation of grace

Replacement theology, preterism, and proprietary religious "kingdom now" dominion thinking organizations have taken the mantel if Israel for themselves and relegated unfulfilled prophecy into the past