The Anytime Rapture View Chart

[DavidPT]

Look at my chart again and the blue zone.

Notice where the confirmation of the covenant is that starts the 70th week.

The Pre-trib view maintains that the rapture MUST take place before the confirmation of the covenant. i.e. before the 70th week begins. Which they mislabel the 7 years as "the tribulation".

Differently in the anytime rapture view, the rapture could happen before the 70th week begins, or it may not. The rapture could happen after the 70th week begins.

View attachment 275769

There is not even anything such as a mid trib rapture, another position built on false premises. That too is also a Pretrib rapture. Any rapture preceding the beginning of the 42 month reign of the beast is Pretrib. That's the tribulation one is hoping to escape. There is no great tribulation during the 1st half of the 70th week that one is hoping to escape. Even your chart shows that. Your anytime rapture and midtrib, though no one seems to be promoting midtrib all that much these days, both are Pretrib since both positions have the rapture occurring prior to the beginning of the great tribulation, the 42 month reign of the beast.

There are two other rapture positions as well, Prewrath and post trib. Both are post trib since those positions have the rapture occurring at the end/after the 42 month reign of the beast. There is no such thing as an anytime rapture unless that rapture can occur anytime from right now all the way up to the 2nd coming. But if that proposed anytime rapture can only occur anytime from right now all the way up to before the 42 month reign of the beast begins, the GT, that is Pretrib no matter how you look at it.

The reason I brought up midtrib is because their position is based on the false idea that the tribulation is 7 years rather than 3.5 years. On your chart midtrib would actually have to be in the middle of where you have the great tribulation taking place, and not where you have the beginning of 2 Thessalanians 2:4 taking place, the latter being where midtrib places the rapture.

Your position is also based on a false idea that it can be an anytime rapture, thus not Pretrib, as long as it can occur anytime from right now all the way up unto the beginning of 2 Thessalonians 2:4. That still places your anytime rapture prior to the time of the great tribulation. Any rapture prior to the time of the GT is Pretrib. How can it not be? Pretrib means anytime before the GT, regardless. Post trib means anytime after the GT. An anytime rapture, there is no such thing if it is still Pretrib, regardless.

 

[nolidad]

The beginning of the Day of the Lord begins when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God. The Day of the Lord never ends.

On my chart....

View attachment 275724

No that is the mid point of the trib period, which Jesus now calls a time of great tribulation! After the A of D happens there is only 1260 days left to the 70th week.

The Day of the Lord as it refers to the end time troubles isd also known by the following:

Time of Jacobs trouble Jer. 30:7
70th week Dan. 9:27
Jehovahs strange work Is 28:21
Jehovahs strange act Is. 28:21
Day oif Israels Calamity Obadiah 12-14
The Tribulation Deut 4:30
the Infdignation Daniel 11:26 Is. 26:20
The overflowing scourge Is. 28:15
day of vengeance Is. 34:8 35:4 61:2
year of recompense Is. 34:8
Time of trouble Dan. 12:1 Zeph 1:15
day of wrath Zaph. 1:15
Day of distress Zeph 1:15
Day of wasteness Zeph 1:15
day of desolation Zeph 1:15

Day of darkness Zeph 1:15 Amos 5:18 Joel 2:2
day of gloominess Zeph 1:15 Joel 2:2
day of clouds Zeph 1:15 Joel 2:2
day of thick darkness Zeph 1:15 Joel 2:2
day of the trumpet Zeph 1:16
Day of alarm Zeph 1:16

New TEstament:
Day of the Lord 1 Thess. 5:2
Wrath of God Rev. 15:1,7 14:10 16:1
hour of trial Rev. 3:10
great day of the wrath of the lamb Rev. 6:16-17
wrath to come 1 Thess 1:10
the wrath 1 Thess. 5:9 Rev. 11:18
Great tribulationn Mt. 24:21 REv. 2:22 7:14
the tribulation Mt. 24:29
hour of Judgment REv. 14:7

 

[Douggg]

There is not even anything such as a mid trib rapture, another position built on false premises. That too is also a Pretrib rapture. Any rapture preceding the beginning of the 42 month reign of the beast is Pretrib.

David, you are misinformed on the principles of the pre-trib rapture. It is pre-tribulation, which those who hold the pre-trib postion consider the entire 70th week as tribulation.

The pre-trib view is that the rapture must happen before the 70th week even starts.

 

[Douggg]

Your position is also based on a false idea that it can be an anytime rapture, thus not Pretrib, as long as it can occur anytime from right now all the way up unto the beginning of 2 Thessalonians 2:4. That still places your anytime rapture prior to the time of the great tribulation.

If the rapture took place today - that would be before the great tribulation. Before Jesus's return. Before the Great White Throne Judgment. etc.

But the timing of the anytime rapture view is that it must be before the transgression of desolation act.

The timing of the pre-trib rapture view is that it must be before the beginning of the 7 year 70th.

The terms are talking about the timing, not whether after it happens what it is before.

 

[keras]

David, you are misinformed on the principles of the pre-trib rapture. It is pre-tribulation, which those who hold the pre-trib postion consider the entire 70th week as tribulation.

The pre-trib view is that the rapture must happen before the 70th week even starts.

As there is nowhere in the Bible that says God will take His people to heaven, this whole discussion is just the babbling of fools.
We are very plainly told to endure whatever will happen until the end. Matthew 24:13, Revelation 13:10, Hebrews 10:36-39 ….we are not of then who draw back, [who look to fables for rescue] and are lost.
We have the faith to preserve our lives.

 

[Douggg]

The Day of the Lord as it refers to the end time troubles isd also known by the following:

Yes, and in those verses it is talking about the initial years of the Day of the Lord, which the Day of the Lord starts out with some years of great tribulation. But The Day of the Lord lasts for eternity.

Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

The Jews were desiring the Day of the Lord because it is a time of great blessing. But what they were not aware of that the beginning years and leading up to it would be a time of great tribulation. Because they would reject the messiah, who could have brought the Kingdom of God to earth, and the messianic age begin.

 

[nolidad]

Yes, and in those verses it is talking about the initial years of the Day of the Lord, which the Day of the Lord starts out with some years of great tribulation. But The Day of the Lord lasts for eternity.

Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

The Jews were desiring the Day of the Lord because it is a time of great blessing. But what they were not aware of that the beginning years and leading up to it would be a time of great tribulation. Because they would reject the messiah, who could have brought the Kingdom of God to earth, and the messianic age begin.

Dougg, do you understand context? When the Day of the Lord refers to the time of the 70th week of Daniel, it is darkness and not light, sadness and not Joy! When the Day of the Lord refers to millenial or eternal things, it is always joyous! They are not the same things! Context determines which one is referred to!

 

[DavidPT]

David, you are misinformed on the principles of the pre-trib rapture. It is pre-tribulation, which those who hold the pre-trib postion consider the entire 70th week as tribulation.

The pre-trib view is that the rapture must happen before the 70th week even starts.

Yet again you prove you are Pretrib. So I don't know why you are in denial? On your chart do you not have that the rapture can occur anytime starting from right now? And what would that mean if the rapture could happen this very same day you and I are discussing this? Would not this rapture precede the beginning of the 70th week if that could happen? There is zero chance the rapture could actually happen today or even tommorrow, but that is beside the point. What is the point is this, you are the one thinking the rapture could even happen this very day. That obviously means you think the rapture can precede the beginning of the 70th week then, a requirement that you say makes one Pretrib.

There is no such thing as a 7 year tribulation period to begin with. But there is a tribulation period that is 42 months. Any rapture that might precede the beginning of this 42 months, that rapture is clearly Pretrib. Any rapture after this 42 months is Post trib. That are the only types of raptures there are, either Pretrib or Post trib.

Midtrib is actually Pretrib, since Midtrib wrongly assumes the trib is 7 years when it is only 3.5 years instead. In order for it to be a Midtrib rapture it would have to occur in the middle of the 42 month reign of the beast and not in the middle of the 70th week instead, therefore making it a Pretrib rapture since it would be preceding the beginning of the GT.

As to your anytime rapture, as long as it precedes the beginning of the GT, that technically makes it Pretrib. Pre means prior to something. Prior to what? The trib, the 42 month reign of the beast, in this case. Is or is not your proposed anytime rapture prior to the beginning of the GT, the 42 month reign of the beast? There you go, then. That technically makes you Pretrib. Therefore, like I already pointed out, there are only two types of raptures, either Pretrib or Post trib, regardless what labels one might give their view.

BTW, I'm not trying to give you a hard time here. Apparently I have thought through some of this to a greater degree than you have. Only meaning in regards to your proposed anytime rapture and how that technically makes you Pretrib.

 

[Douggg]

Dougg, do you understand context? When the Day of the Lord refers to the time of the 70th week of Daniel, it is darkness and not light, sadness and not Joy! When the Day of the Lord refers to millenial or eternal things, it is always joyous! They are not the same things! Context determines which one is referred to!

The early years of the Day of the Lord are not the same thing as the millennium and the continuation of the Day of the Lord forever when there is no more sin, nor death.

Them in Amos 5:18 desiring the Day of the Lord did not know those things.

 

[Douggg]

Yet again you prove you are Pretrib. So I don't know why you are in denial?

I am not in denial. The anytime rapture view is the latest advancement to the classical rapture timing views to finally get it right.

You are making a irrational argument from the point of view after the rapture has taken place, in retrospect. Contrary to that rationale, the various rapture views look ahead, not back, in their timing of when the rapture will happen.

 

[Douggg]

There is zero chance the rapture could actually happen today or even tommorrow, but that is beside the point. What is the point is this, you are the one thinking the rapture could even happen this very day. That obviously means you think the rapture can precede the beginning of the 70th week then, a requirement that you say makes one Pretrib.

The point of the anytime rapture view is that the rapture COULD happen pre-70th, but not that it necessarily HAS TO.

Which is different from the pre-trib view which says the rapture MUST happen pre-70th week.

 

[Douggg]

As to your anytime rapture, as long as it precedes the beginning of the GT, that technically makes it Pretrib. Pre means prior to something.

Pretribbers define the whole 70th week as tribulation. Not just the great tribulation timeframe. It is not what you are defining as Pre-trib, but what they define as Pre-trib (in their view).

You are trying to rationalize the pre-trib view and the anytime rapture view into something they are not. And then saying if someone believes the anytime rapture view, he must also be believing the pre-trib rapture view.

 

[nolidad]

The early years of the Day of the Lord are not the same thing as the millennium and the continuation of the Day of the Lord forever when there is no more sin, nor death.

Them in Amos 5:18 desiring the Day of the Lord did not know those things.

And just think, god didn't bothjer to tell them the Dayio of the Lord was all candy, roses and Joy!

All references to the Day of teh Lord are judgment and tragedy. Adding the millenium and the eternal order doesn't make the addition true.