The Anytime Rapture View Chart

[Douggg]

Are you blind?
Matthew 24:29... the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give any light.....
Revelation 6:12...the sun turned black and the moon red as blood....

I don't see any problem at all in equating those two.

he Fourth Bowl is plainly another event from the Sixth seal. Mixing them up is quite wrong.
But we see that you have no qualms about making scripture suit your notions.

I was never claiming that the fourth bowl of God's wrath is the sixth seal event. The fourth bowel events are not the sixth seal events.

I provided a plain list of events, detailing what is prophesied to happen. Are you unable to address or refute it?

Keras, I don't think you realize how confusing you are in your verbalized posted explanations and comments. You are presenting ideas fragmented as bits and pieces.

A timeline chart - would force you to fit the fragmented information you are verbalizing, together into one flowing picture of the biblical endtimes 7 year 70th week. But it can't be done if you have erroneous interpretations and applications and concepts.

 

[keras]

I don't see any problem at all in equating those two.

Saying that the moon darkened in one prophecy and the moon blood red in another, are the same; puts all of your charts, opinions and theories, into question.
It is an indisputable fact that Matthew 24:29 and Revelation 6:12, ARE different events, several years apart.

Keras, I don't think you realize how confusing you are in your verbalized posted explanations and comments. You are presenting ideas fragmented as bits and pieces.

I realize that a correct and straight forward sequence of the end time events would be confusing to anyone who believes wrong theories and ideas of what God has planned.

Bits and pieces? What is the Bible, if not 66 Books of a series of 'bits and pieces' that we Christian believers can understand. To the godless, the Bible and the Way of Salvation, is foolishness.

Re your 'chart', Do you really think nothing significant will happen before the 7 year treaty?

 

[Douggg]

Re your 'chart', Do you really think nothing significant will happen before the 7 year treaty?

Look at my chart. Upper left hand corner. Gog/Magog takes place before the confirmation of the covenant for 7 years - speech, not treaty.

 

[Douggg]

Saying that the moon darkened in one prophecy and the moon blood red in another, are the same; puts all of your charts, opinions and theories, into question.

The moon is has brilliancy when it is reflecting the light of the sun from it's surface as observed from earth. Darkened means it is no longer reflecting that white light. Which turning blood red has the same effect.

Turning blood red the moon is darkened.

 

[nolidad]

What is your textual proof that the confirming of the covenant for 7 years is the beginning of the Day of the Lord ?

Daniel 9:24-27 King James Version (KJV)
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

After the 70th week is completed- Israel anoints Jesus as king! Then when you look at REvelation and see the 1260 days (3 1/2 years) it doesn't take rocket science to do the simple math!

Actually not. What takes place before the 2Thessalonians2:4 act, that makes the time of the 7 years up to that point - tribulation?

What happens prior? The opening of the 6th seal which starts the 70th week.

Rev. 6:

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

One of the common terms in the minor prophets for the 70th week of Daniel oir the tribulation period is the time of the Lords trouble /wrath!

When the antichrist enters the temple and sits in the holy place (between the angels on the ark of the covenant) we know this is the Aof D and that happens at teh mid point of the tribulation and begins what Jesus called the time of great tribulation- which will be the seven vial judgments.

 

[keras]

Turning blood red the moon is darkened.

Enough already!
You have very successfully shown how you make A into B.

You also harp on about the European Union, which is in tatters and of no interest to anyone who seriously studies Bible prophecy.
Also, there is nowhere that a 'king of Israel' will be installed before Jesus Returns. Ezekiel 46 does mention a ruler of the people. He will be elected by them, as Jeremiah 30:21 and Hosea 1:11 tell us.

 

[Douggg]

After the 70th week is completed- Israel anoints Jesus as king! Then when you look at REvelation and see the 1260 days (3 1/2 years) it doesn't take rocket science to do the simple math!

The beginning of the Day of the Lord begins when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God. The Day of the Lord never ends.

On my chart....

 

[Douggg]

You also harp on about the European Union, which is in tatters and of no interest to anyone who seriously studies Bible prophecy.

The people of the prince who shall come destroys the temple and city (in 70AD). The Romans. Where is Rome located? In the EU.

Who was the King of the Roman Empire during Jesus's day and in John's day? A Julio-Claudian. King 7 a Julio-Claudian end times, who later becomes the beast King 9

EU rooted in the Treaty of Rome. A Union of European nations.

EU, final form, will be the kingdom of the beast.

 

[Blade]

What always gets me is Christ looks them in the eye and says He is going.. and they can't come. He is going to make them a home so where ..stop.. Where is He? Where would that be? Back to His Fathers house to make them a home.. wheres the Father and Christ right now?

He said.. where I go you know. No way He new anything about the timing. Or He just lied to them. I go to prepare a place for you so where I am you will be. I could have this all wrong. But.. He never lied.. never mislead anyone. So WHEN do you get to see what He made for you? If its post.. then you wont. For He will be BACK on earth. Not even what He said.

And even Paul... that saw it happening.. used a word you never would if you knew it was never in your life time... said "we which remain"..after that we that remain...we?

I can't just by pass this. Then to just debate with speculation.. is not fact. Give the verses with out any speculation. With out any "what that really means, What Christ really said". Really? So this means one of us are wrong or no one right

I am with my brothers.. I am in the camp of "WE". I only have today.. why in the world would I hope have faith in a day God never even promised. One that Christ never gave a date. How in the world can it be wrong to watch be ready now? I could be gone in the next second. To always be thinking of HIM.. making sure my life is always in order.. pleasing to Him. AMEN! Come lord Jesus

 

[keras]

EU, final form, will be the kingdom of the beast.

Daniel 7:23...a fourth kingdom will appear on earth, different from all the earlier kingdoms. It will devour the whole earth, treading it down and crushing it.
The EU area will be just one of the ten world regions. as has already been decided by those who promote a One World Government.

 

[Douggg]

Daniel 7:23...a fourth kingdom will appear on earth, different from all the earlier kingdoms. It will devour the whole earth, treading it down and crushing it.
The EU area will be just one of the ten world regions. as has already been decided by those who promote a One World Government.

At the end of the 7 years, the beast will be attacked from the south, north, east, in Daniel 11:40-44. So if his kingdom were ten regions of the world (i.e ruled by ten kings, one over each region), then his kingdom would be fighting itself.

The kings of the east attack him coming from the east. So it is not ten regions of the world, but the EU will be the dominate kingdom over the rest of the world, calling the shots.

The U.S. and Canada will likely be allied with the EU. Which the U.S. and the EU combined clearly have the most economic, technology, financial, military, power than anyone else. And will be calling the shots over the rest of the world in the post Gog/Magog world.

 

[keras]

At the end of the 7 years, the beast will be attacked from the south, north, east, in Daniel 11:40-44. So if his kingdom were ten regions of the world (i.e ruled by ten kings, one over each region), then his kingdom would be fighting itself.

The kings of the east attack him coming from the east. So it is not ten regions of the world, but the EU will be the dominate kingdom over the rest of the world, calling the shots.

The U.S. and Canada will likely be allied with the EU. Which the U.S. and the EU combined clearly have the most economic, technology, financial, military, power than anyone else. And will be calling the shots over the rest of the world in the post Gog/Magog world.

Just like the difference's of the sun and moon between the Sixth seal and the Return, you also are blinded to the difference's between the Roman Empire, over the European area and the final Empire that will encompass the whole world.
The attacks you mention are insurrections within the OWG.

Plus your determination to fit in a 'rapture to heaven' somewhere - anywhere.

 

[DavidPT]

The beginning of the Day of the Lord begins when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God. The Day of the Lord never ends.

On my chart....

View attachment 275724

Your chart shows you are obviously Pretrib, so why not just call it what is, a Pretrib rapture? If you have the rapture occuring anytime from right now up until the fulfillment of 2 Thessalonians 2:4, then have the GT occuring after 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is being fulfilled, how can that rapture possibly not be Pretrib? If you were truly promoting an anytime rapture like you are claiming, that rapture would be occurring anytime from right now all the way up until the 2nd coming. IOW, on your chart there, the bluish rectangle you have for The Rapture timing would begin where you have it beginning, and it would end where you have Jesus's return, therefore indicating the rapture can occur anytime.

What is your motive for not wanting to call it a Pretrib rapture? You don't care to be labeled Pretrib, perhaps? If it's something like that, maybe you shouldn't be promoting something you don't care to be labeled. Your anytime rapture is still clearly Pretrib according to your very own chart.

I have some more issues with things on your chart as well. One of them being where you are placing the beginning and the end of the Gog/Magog battle in Ezekiel 39. But I do somewhat understand why you place it there since you and I have discussed this in the past. I still disagree. Another being where you have the day of the Lord beginning. The day of the Lord is meaning 2 Peter 3:10, for one. None of those events recorded in 2 Peter 3:10 are taking place when 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is being initially fulfilled. The day of the Lord is meaning after the great trib, not prior to it instead.


BTW, this chart I could pretty much follow. Some of your charts I can't fully follow.

 

[Douggg]

Your chart shows you are obviously Pretrib, so why not just call it what is, a Pretrib rapture?

Look at my chart again and the blue zone.

Notice where the confirmation of the covenant is that starts the 70th week.

The Pre-trib view maintains that the rapture MUST take place before the confirmation of the covenant. i.e. before the 70th week begins. Which they mislabel the 7 years as "the tribulation".

Differently in the anytime rapture view, the rapture could happen before the 70th week begins, or it may not. The rapture could happen after the 70th week begins.

 

[Douggg]

If you have the rapture occuring anytime from right now up until the fulfillment of 2 Thessalonians 2:4, then have the GT occuring after 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is being fulfilled, how can that rapture possibly not be Pretrib?

Because the term Pre-trib is misleading. What is really meant is pre-70th week. Which them who hold the pre-trib view call the entire 70th week the tribulation.

The Pre-trib term is not Pre-Great trib(ulation).

btw, the Great Tribulation does not begin with the 2Thessalonians2:4 act, the Transgression of Desolation. But when the image of the beast is placed in the temple, the Abomination of Desolation.

I show the difference on my chart.

 

[Douggg]

I have some more issues with things on your chart as well. One of them being where you are placing the beginning and the end of the Gog/Magog battle in Ezekiel 39. But I do somewhat understand why you place it there since you and I have discussed this in the past. I still disagree

The timing of Gog/Magog to be right before the 7years begin is one of the most concrete things in prophecy.

Why so? Because Jesus Himself is speaking in the text of Ezekiel 39:21-29, having returned to earth, and setting his glory among the heathen, i.e. ruling the nations. And Ezekiel 39:17-20 is the Armageddon feast in Revelation 19:17-18.

 

[Douggg]

Another being where you have the day of the Lord beginning. The day of the Lord is meaning 2 Peter 3:10, for one. None of those events recorded in 2 Peter 3:10 are taking place when 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is being initially fulfilled. The day of the Lord is meaning after the great trib, not prior to it instead.

The beginning of the Day of the Lord begins when the Antichrist does the act.

The Day of the Lord never ends. There are a number of events that take place at different times in the Day of the Lord. I did not show this current world being destroyed as it is found in 2Peter3. But if I had, it would be right before the GWT judgement.

 

[Inkfingers]

Gog/Magog takes place before the confirmation of the covenant for 7 years

Gog/Magog is one of the last events in Revelation (chapter 20 after Satan gets out of the pit after 1000 years).

Why do you place that at the beginning of your chart?

 

[Douggg]

Gog/Magog is one of the last events in Revelation (chapter 20 after Satan gets out of the pit after 1000 years).

Why do you place that at the beginning of your chart?

I would suggest reading all of the verses referenced in this post from the KJV.

Basically, the Gog and Magog in Revelation can be shown not to be the same event as in Ezekiel 38-39 because of what takes place afterward - when compared, Revelation and Ezekiel 38/39.

In Ezekiel 38/39, there are 7 years following Gog's army being buried in Israel.

In Revelation 20, the reference to Gog and Magog is to the same regions of the world take part in the last rebellion when Satan is released from the bottomless pit for a while. As soon as that last rebelling assembly is destroyed, this current earth and heaven flees away, another way of saying it is destroyed - unlike in Ezekiel 39. And then the Great White Throne Judgement takes place.

In Ezekiel 39, following the 7 years in Ezekiel 39:9, is the Armageddon feast on the dead bodies in Ezekiel 39:17-20 corresponding to Revelation 19:17-18.

Then in Ezekiel 39:21-29 Jesus Himself is speaking have returned to earth at His Second Coming. In Ezekiel 39:28 is the completion of the gathering of the Jews back to the land of Israel, corresponding to Matthew 24:31. And the thousand years begin (not directly said in the text of Ezekiel 39, but it can be deduced by the content)

At the end of the thousand years is the final rebellion that you are referring to in Revelation 20, which will include those same Gog/Magog nations - as were over 1000 years earlier, in the Ezekiel 38/39 event.

 

[Inkfingers]

Basically, the Gog and Magog in Revelation can be shown not to be the same event as in Ezekiel 38-39 because of what takes place afterward - when compared, Revelation and Ezekiel 38/39.

The Ezekiel 38 and 39 reference is a prophecy, not a war.

The Revelation 20 reference is the actual war predicted in Ezekiel, and that war happens AFTER the second coming.