The Alternative to a Rapture

[keras]

Firstly; the general definition of a ‘rapture’, means being taken to live in heaven. This is believed by many, to happen before the Lord punishes the world and destroys His enemies. But scripture does not clearly say that anyone will be taken to heaven, excepting for the two Witnesses, Revelation 11:12, who are the last of the Christian martyrs killed for their faith during the 42 month period when Satan has world control.

The belief in a general rapture can only be made by inference and assumption. It has gained wide acceptance because it’s the easy way out. We must discard any pretentious ideas of escape and removal from the earth. That idea directly opposes the Great Commission and the Words of Jesus where He says that it is impossible for humans to go to heaven. John 3:13, John 17:15, Revelation 2:25

So: what are God’s Plans for His faithful people?

We live today, in a time of worldwide unrest and change, especially in the Middle East region. Many Bible Prophecies tell us that the Lord will clear and cleanse the Holy Land. Deuteronomy 32:34-43. Zephaniah 1:14-18, 2 Peter 3:7

This dramatic event, the Lord’s terrible day of vengeance and wrath, will change the world. It will result in the formation of a One World Government, Daniel 7:23-24, but the Christian peoples will travel to and live in their heritage, of the entire Holy Land area, fulfilling their destiny of being Gods Light to the world and His witnesses to the nations; Isaiah 48:3-8, Matthew 5:14-16, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 This scenario is confirmed by Isaiah 35…by the Way of Holiness….those people the Lord has redeemed, will enter Zion, with praise and thanksgiving, And in Romans 9:24-26, we Christians will be told: we are the children of the Living God, in the very same place as ancient Israel was rejected. Psalms 37:29, +

Friends and brethren, we look forward to an amazing future, where we can be a part of Gods wonderful Plan for His faithful peoples and enjoy His Blessings as we live in peace and prosperity under His protection. Ezekiel 38 & 39 demonstrate how the Lord will protect us from enemies.

When Jesus Returns, then the Prophecy in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 will take place. Those Christians who have proved their faith will meet Jesus in the air then be transported to Jerusalem, where He will be for the Millennium.

Keraz, the messenger

 

[d taylor]

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The rapture properly taught means that believers are taken up to the clouds to meet Jesus there in the clouds. Where they will tabernacle with Jesus for 7 years while the tribulation is carried out. Then the believers will be brought back to earth after the tribulation is over to help out during the 1000 year rule of Jesus on the restored earth.

The rapture should never be taught that believers are taken up into heaven to live there.

 

[keras]

The rapture properly taught means that believers are taken up to the clouds to meet Jesus there in the clouds. Where they will tabernacle with Jesus for 7 years while the tribulation is carried out. Then the believers will be brought back to earth after the tribulation is over to help out during the 1000 year rule of Jesus on the restored earth.

This looks like a private dream of yours only.
Revelation 12 tells us exactly where all the Christians will be during the final 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns.
We have work to do on earth, living in the clouds is frankly; wakadoodle.

 

[d taylor]

This looks like a private dream of yours only.
Revelation 12 tells us exactly where all the Christians will be during the final 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns.
We have work to do on earth, living in the clouds is frankly; wakadoodle.

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For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

 

[Laodicean60]

This dramatic event, the Lord’s terrible day of vengeance and wrath,

Wrath? Rom 5: 9 Rev 3: 10 of many. Peace

 

[keras]

Wrath? Rom 5: 9 Rev 3: 10 of many. Peace

We will be on earth when the Lord sends His fiery wrath to destroy His enemies. Amos 1 & 2:1-5, Revelation 6:11-17
We are told to stand firm in our faith and to - Call upon the Name of the Lord and we will be saved. Joel 2:32, Romans 10:13, Acts 2"21

 

[DavidPT]

Firstly; the general definition of a ‘rapture’, means being taken to live in heaven.

Maybe if you are Pretrib it does, yet not everyone is Pretrib. A lot of us are Post Trib. I can't speak for every Post Tribber, but speaking for myself though, I believe there is indeed a rapture, except no ones goes to heaven during it, they are simply changed in the sky then descend back to earth to confront the beast and it's armies(Revelation 19).

But even so, what should we make of the following, though?

Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.


It clearly says they ascended up to heaven in a cloud. What should we take that to mean? That they don't ascend up to heaven in a cloud though it plainly says they do? If we don't believe what it says maybe we shouldn't believe what the following says, either?

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Both accounts involve being seen ascending up to heaven involving a cloud. Why would one account literally mean what it says, Acts 1:9-11 in this case, but that the other account doesn't literally mean what it says, Revelation 11:11-12 in this case? BTW, I'm not saying it is involving a literal cloud, I'm saying it involves literally ascending up to heaven, a literal place, at least pertaining to Acts 1:9-11. So why wouldn't the same be true pertaining to Revelation 11:11-12 as well?

 

[keras]

Maybe if you are Pretrib it does, yet not everyone is Pretrib. A lot of us are Post Trib. I can't speak for every Post Tribber, but speaking for myself though, I believe there is indeed a rapture, except no ones goes to heaven during it, they are simply changed in the sky then descend back to earth to confront the beast and it's armies(Revelation 19).

But even so, what should we make of the following, though?

Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.


It clearly says they ascended up to heaven in a cloud. What should we take that to mean? That they don't ascend up to heaven in a cloud though it plainly says they do? If we don't believe what it says maybe we shouldn't believe what the following says, either?

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Both accounts involve being seen ascending up to heaven involving a cloud. Why would one account literally mean what it says, Acts 1:9-11 in this case, but that the other account doesn't literally mean what it says, Revelation 11:11-12 in this case? BTW, I'm not saying it is involving a literal cloud, I'm saying it involves literally ascending up to heaven, a literal place, at least pertaining to Acts 1:9-11. So why wouldn't the same be true pertaining to Revelation 11:11-12 as well?

I can't figure what you are really getting at.
Jesus Ascended into a cloud. He went to heaven as an immortal, Spiritual being. Revelation 5:6-7

The 2 Witnesses will ascend into a cloud too, but they do not go to heaven, they go back to the earth with Jesus: as mortals, with the rest of the martyrs killed during the reign of the 'beast'. Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first Resurrection! Over them, the second death has no power. [They are mortal and can die again, but at the GWT Judgment; their names will be found in the Book of Life and Eternal life is theirs. ]
They shall; be priests of Christ and shall reign with Him for the next thousand years.

 

[DavidPT]

I can't figure what you are really getting at.
Jesus Ascended into a cloud. He went to heaven as an immortal, Spiritual being. Revelation 5:6-7

The 2 Witnesses will ascend into a cloud too, but they do not go to heaven, they go back to the earth with Jesus: as mortals, with the rest of the martyrs killed during the reign of the 'beast'. Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first Resurrection! Over them, the second death has no power. [They are mortal and can die again, but at the GWT Judgment; their names will be found in the Book of Life and Eternal life is theirs. ]
They shall; be priests of Christ and shall reign with Him for the next thousand years.

If one is arguing that no one but Christ ascends to heaven, how then does one explain Revelation 11:11-12 then? That being mainly my point. You insist they don't actually go to heaven. Why don't they if that that is what the text is plainly saying they do? The same way the text plainly says that Christ did in Acts 1, that He literally ascended into heaven, thus no u-turn at the time.

 

[Laodicean60]

We will be on earth when the Lord sends His fiery wrath to destroy His enemies. Amos 1 & 2:1-5, Revelation 6:11-17
We are told to stand firm in our faith and to - Call upon the Name of the Lord and we will be saved. Joel 2:32, Romans 10:13, Acts 2"21

There are millions of Christians scattered all over the globe. How is this going to happen Rev 3: 10.

 

[keras]

If one is arguing that no one but Christ ascends to heaven, how then does one explain Revelation 11:11-12 then? That being mainly my point. You insist they don't actually go to heaven. Why don't they if that that is what the text is plainly saying they do? The same way the text plainly says that Christ did in Acts 1, that He literally ascended into heaven, thus no u-turn at the time.

The Bible does say 'heaven'. But as Jesus will have just departed from God's heaven on His way to Return to the earth, I contend that those 2 resurrected Witnesses will meet Jesus in the clouds; the atmospheric heaven, along with all of the Christian peoples, as per 1 Thess 4:16-17 and Matthew 24:30-31
Proved by how we all join King Jesus in Jerusalem and commence the Millennium with a feast. Revelation 19:8

 

[keras]

There are millions of Christians scattered all over the globe. How is this going to happen Rev 3: 10.

Many scriptures say how the Lord will protect His own people from His fiery wrath. The 3 men in the fiery furnace is the prime example.
If people think Revelation 3:10 means a rapture removal, they are quite wrong, as that idea is not even hinted there. What is coming will be our test of faith; 1 Peter 4:12

 

[Laodicean60]

Many scriptures say how the Lord will protect His own people from His fiery wrath. The 3 men in the fiery furnace is the prime example.
If people think Revelation 3:10 means a rapture removal, they are quite wrong, as that idea is not even hinted there. What is coming will be our test of faith; 1 Peter 4:12

Tell me your interpretation of Rev 3:10, please.

 

[Lost4words]

Revelation, the most misinterpreted and most misunderstood book in the Bible!

 

[keras]

Tell me your interpretation of Rev 3:10, please.

Revelation 3:10:
Because you have kept My Command to stand firm,
This applies to those faithful Christians who will stay strong in their faith and trust the Lord on His great and terrible Day of vengeance and wrath. Revelation 6:12-17, Isaiah 66:15-17, 2 Peter 3:7, +

I will keep you from the ordeal that is to fall upon the whole world,
His protection when He sends the worldwide disaster of the Sixth Seal:

Psalms 23:4 Even if I walk through a valley of darkness, I will fear no harm, for You are with me.

Isaiah 41:3 For I the Lord, will hold your right hand, saying: fear not, I will help you.

Isaiah 43:2b…walk thru fire and you will not be scorched, thru flames and not be burned.

Zephaniah 2:3 Seek the Lord, all you who obey Him, it may be that you will be sheltered on the Day of the Lord’s anger.

Proverbs 3:25 Do not be afraid when fools are frightened or when destruction overtakes the wicked, for the Lord will be at your side on that Day.

Daniel 3:25 An angel protects the 3 men in the furnace. THEY weren’t taken out of it!

Jeremiah 30:7 How terrible is that Day….yet Jacob [Israel: My people] will come thru it safely.

1 Corinthians 10:13.... God will not test you beyond your powers and when the test comes, He will provide a way out to enable you to endure.

Psalms 9:10 The Lord does not abandon those who seek Him and trust in Him.

2 Peter 2:9 God knows how to rescue the godly from their trials.

Psalms 18:3 I shall call upon the Lord, then I will be made safe.

Psalms 31:23-24 The Lord protects the faithful. Be strong, all you whose hope is in the Lord.

Psalms 64:10 The righteous rejoice, their refuge in the Lord.

Zechariah 9:15-16 The Lord of hosts will protect His people...On that Day, He will save them, like a flock, for they are precious to Him. Isaiah 61:10

Psalms 37:18-19 The Lord watches over the righteous, when times are bad, they will not be distressed.

Job 22:30 He will deliver the innocent, because their hands are pure.

Psalms 91:1-16 ...He will rescue you, you will not fear the terrors abroad.

Psalms 121:1-8 Our help comes from the Lord, He will guard your life.

Psalms 109:31 The Lord stands at the right hand of the poor and saves them from trials.

Isaiah 51:16 I keep you covered under the shelter of My hand.

Psalms 97:10-12 He keeps His loyal servants safe and rescues them from the wicked.

Jeremiah 17:7-8 Blessed is anyone who trusts in the Lord, they will be like trees by a stream, when the heat comes it has nothing to fear.

Nahum 1:7 The Lord is a sure protection in times of trouble and cares for all those who make Him their refuge.

Psalms 60:4-5 To those who fear the Lord, He will show the way to escape from trouble.

Psalms 37:9 For evildoers will be destroyed, those who trust in the Lord will prosper in the Land.

Isaiah 26:20 On that Day, I will come to your aid.

Daniel 12:1 There will be a time of anguish, but at that time, Your people will be delivered, all those whose names are written in the Book of Life.

2 Thessalonians 1:7 ...to give you relief when the Lord Jesus comes in blazing fire.

Joel 3:16 The Lord roars from Zion, the heavens and the earth shudder, but He is a refuge for His people and a defence for Israel.

Ecclesiasticus 34:13-17 Those who fear the Lord will live, for their trust in Him can keep them safe. The Lord keeps watch over those who love Him, He is their shield and support, a shelter from the scorching wind and the heat of the sun. He raises their spirits and gives healing, life and blessings. Apocrypha.
Reference: Revised English Bible.

to test its inhabitants.
EVERYONE will experience this great test, Luke 21:35, 1 Peter 4:12, James 1:12-15, Revelation 2:10, +
Any idea of a rapture removal is false and cannot happen.

 

[Douggg]

This looks like a private dream of yours only.
Revelation 12 tells us exactly where all the Christians will be during the final 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns.
We have work to do on earth, living in the clouds is frankly; wakadoodle.

keras, the rapture/resurrection event is for the living "in Christ" and the dead "in Christ".

There is no resurrection in Revelation 12:14. That verse is not referring to the rapture/resurrection event.

Revelation 12:14 is referring to them in Judea, the Jews, fleeing to the mountains when they see the abomination of desolation standing the holy place. Matthew 24:15-21.

 

[Dan Perez]

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The rapture properly taught means that believers are taken up to the clouds to meet Jesus there in the clouds. Where they will tabernacle with Jesus for 7 years while the tribulation is carried out. Then the believers will be brought back to earth after the tribulation is over to help out during the 1000 year rule of Jesus on the restored earth.

The rapture should never be taught that believers are taken up into heaven to live there.

Why are some writing about RAPTURE that is not true , since there is nor a Greek word for RAPTIRE , just check VINE'S DICTIONARY and see .

1 Cor 6:2 and 3 say that we will GOVERN the UNIVERN and also GOVERN Angels in the UNIVERSE and since the UNIVERSE has MILLION and MILLIONS of miles , there is PLENTY f room !!

dan p

 

[keras]

Revelation 12:14 is referring to them in Judea, the Jews, fleeing to the mountains when they see the abomination of desolation standing the holy place. Matthew 24:15-21.

Revelation 12:14 says the 'woman', who can only be the faithful Christian peoples, are flown to a place of safety on earth for 3 1/2 years.
The 'fleeing to the mountains', is a fulfilled prophecy, the Christian Jews did that in 69AD.

Your mis-application and twisting of the scriptures is your bad. Get it right or give it away.

 

[d taylor]

Why are some writing about RAPTURE that is not true , since there is nor a Greek word for RAPTIRE , just check VINE'S DICTIONARY and see .

1 Cor 6:2 and 3 say that we will GOVERN the UNIVERN and also GOVERN Angels in the UNIVERSE and since the UNIVERSE has MILLION and MILLIONS of miles , there is PLENTY f room !!

dan p

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You seem to be confused.

 

[Douggg]

Revelation 12:14 says the 'woman', who can only be the faithful Christian peoples, are flown to a place of safety on earth for 3 1/2 years.
The 'fleeing to the mountains', is a fulfilled prophecy, the Christian Jews did that in 69AD.

The fleeing to the mountains, in 70AD, is in Luke 21.

20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Differently, the fleeing to the mountains, in the end times, is in Matthew 24:15-21 - for a different reason...

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

Your mis-application and twisting of the scriptures is your bad. Get it right or give it away.

keras, please try to control your emotions.