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The Achilles Heel of Atheism is also the Achilles Heel of anyone making proclamations about the immaterial. There is no emprical proof either way.
The Achilles Heel of Atheism is also the Achilles Heel of anyone making proclamations about the immaterial. There is no emprical proof either way.
To say 'there is not God' is a proclamation.
They can't possibly render a verdict because the Judaeo-Christian God brought the material into existence, thus His being could not depend on the material.
That is a proclamation... however that's not what Atheism in it's broadest definition states. The vast majority of Atheists would never make that proclamation, so you are misrepresenting the Atheistic position.[quote/]
What would they say? There is no 'evidence' for the existence of God. That is really more an Agnostic position.
What are you talking about... What material?
The physical universe/multiverse, whatever you want to call it. It is all material.
What would they say? There is no 'evidence' for the existence of God. That is really more an Agnostic position.
The physical universe/multiverse, whatever you want to call it. It is all material.
Ok, but even if you're right that still doesn't prove your God. If he's made up of something other than matter and energy, we still have no idea what that is, and have never detected it. That means we lack evidence that would justify belief in him.
That was not my point. My point is that both camps (theist and atheist) are on the same weak ground: there is no way to prove/disprove the existence of a God because we have no way to assess things that are not matter or energy.
And there is no way to prove or disprove leprechauns, unicorns, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or talking snakes.That was not my point. My point is that both camps (theist and atheist) are on the same weak ground: there is no way to prove/disprove the existence of a God because we have no way to assess things that are not matter or energy.
'Whoever exalts himself will be humbled and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.' Matthew 23:12
I extend my arms to you as an offer of a sincere hug, that there is peace between us my brother.
Before he left this life, Samuel had made for me a custom pendant shaped like a stone tablet. And upon that was engraved the simple scriptural chapter reference: Galatians 5.
I wear that to this day, and feel it's presence now as I read your sincere remarks here. It keeps me grounded in my bond with many things. And it brings me back to center when I feel I've veered off course.
It is with sincere and humble heart that I accept your words and offer my own apologies if my remarks regarding the content of your post, and the Wikipedia entry, came across as harsh or as an attack against you personally.
I find in reading myself again in that particular post, that to my own ears at the end especially, I sounded self righteous and perhaps bitter. Perhaps I'm projecting my emotions where they have no place at certain times when I invest my attentions to this particular topic, which I hold to heart having loved dearly an Atheist once upon a time and even still.
Perhaps, if I may be so bold, I can share this passage with you brother. And perhaps it will help you to see Atheists in a softer light, if you will.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
I think of this scripture and that of Jeremiah, when I write that regardless of whether the Atheist believes in God it does not mean that God does not believe in the Atheist.
I see the community of this Earth as children of God. All people. Even those I see as radicals. Judgment that may be, and still I trust that when there is one God from whence all things sprang then we all are but one family of soul, trying to find our way through life till the day the doors open and call us home.
Having said that in print, I realize I may inspire many Christians to emotion and claiming that is not how a "true" Christian thinks. Projecting that is possible I will say, I have listed my beliefs as Christian seeker. And though I've been quite busy today and not able to peruse the board fully, before I left last time I recall seeing a post that asked something to the effect; Am I a Christian? I have some really strange beliefs.
Though I have not read more than what I recall of the thread title on the "New Posts Menu", maybe this seeker could ask the same thing of herself. Though I do feel and have most of my life, the love and kinship of Christ.
Jeremiah 31:34
For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Again, bless you brother for your sincere introspection and daring to be so honest and share your heart here. There are a great many topics on these forums that can bring emotions to a boil, as we all take things personally.
But that's life, isn't it. And what a blessing it is to journey and learn so much from so many.
God's peace journey with you and all of the CF family.
Which god would it be better to believe in and be wrong than to not believe in and be wrong?
QI : Pascals Wager - YouTube
That was not my point. My point is that both camps (theist and atheist) are on the same weak ground: there is no way to prove/disprove the existence of a God because we have no way to assess things that are not matter or energy.
Mr. Petersen,
I too, used to understand that atheism was the view of not believing in God.
However, from several gentlemen here who have given me a better and deeper understanding of what atheism is today, the position ecompasses a wide ranging and eclectic mixture of ideas, thoughts, beliefs and views.
Most will confirm that atheism is "the lack of belief in gods or God". Now you can better understand the vast amounts of interpretations that may fall under the umbrella of this definition.
The position itself makes no positive assertions as to the existence or non-existence of God. Now assuredly there are some atheists that categorically deny the existence of God. However, I do not think that most atheists here maintain that position though.
I beleive that a good many here simply reserve the right to maintain that they lack a belief in gods or God, and if I may not be presumptuous, I may even say that they do so because they believe that there is no good evidence to believe. This is the position that I believe Belk, and Gadarene hold to, who are two gentlemen I have spoken with at length about this topic.
So if you understand this definition Mr. Petersen, you will be better able to refute it or critique it if you so desire.
If I am mistaken in what I have said, I hope someone will help me to understand better my error.
How are you defining God? Is our family our God? Would you consider our children our God? Please explain what it is that you call God.Worship has never required a supernatural being.
I can agree with the definition of atheism being the non-belief in any supernatural power or being, but that is different than a non-belief in a god...which is humanly impossible.
Everyone has a god or gods.
As was just pointed out to you, the atheist position is not "god does not exist". It is "I do not believe in a god or gods.". A lack of evidence is why atheists are atheists in the first place.
all the atheists on here will tell you under no uncertain terms that God does not exist.
How are you defining God? Is our family our God? Would you consider our children our God? Please explain what it is that you call God.
Ken
Mr. Petersen,
I too, used to understand that atheism was the view of not believing in God.
However, from several gentlemen here who have given me a better and deeper understanding of what atheism is today, the position ecompasses a wide ranging and eclectic mixture of ideas, thoughts, beliefs and views.
Most will confirm that atheism is "the lack of belief in gods or God". Now you can better understand the vast amounts of interpretations that may fall under the umbrella of this definition.
The position itself makes no positive assertions as to the existence or non-existence of God. Now assuredly there are some atheists that categorically deny the existence of God. However, I do not think that most atheists here maintain that position though.
I beleive that a good many here simply reserve the right to maintain that they lack a belief in gods or God, and if I may not be presumptuous, I may even say that they do so because they believe that there is no good evidence to believe. This is the position that I believe Belk, and Gadarene hold to, who are two gentlemen I have spoken with at length about this topic.
So if you understand this definition Mr. Petersen, you will be better able to refute it or critique it if you so desire.
If I am mistaken in what I have said, I hope someone will help me to understand better my error.
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