The Achilles Heel of Atheism

[EddyMabo]

I like how a selection of the religious try to deconstruct and condescendingly resolve with themselves why atheists exist while ignoring the entire time that they are the same level of committed atheist for every god except one.

 

[jpcedotal]

Worship has never required a supernatural being.

I can agree with the definition of atheism being the non-belief in any supernatural power or being, but that is different than a non-belief in a god...which is humanly impossible.

Everyone has a god or gods.

 

[Gadarene]

Worship has never required a supernatural being.

I can agree with the definition of atheism being the non-belief in any supernatural power or being, but that is different than a non-belief in a god...which is humanly impossible.

Everyone has a god or gods.

No, they don't.

 

[jpcedotal]

No, they don't.

then you are lying to yourself...all one has to do is follow your money trail to find the god on the other end.

 

[Dave Ellis]

The first section of the OP is a generally good characterization of Atheism. However both points you raised are not "Achilles heels" of Atheism at all....

First Part - Matter and Mind

Thoughts, concepts and whatnot are a result of brain chemistry and electrical impulses in the brain.... Therefore, it is indeed just matter and energy. There's nothing transcendent about it.

Second Part - Meaning

This whole section is just one big appeal to emotion, and therefore invalid.

In short, it doesn't matter if you want there to be an ultimate meaning to everything, it doesn't affect the reality of it being true or not. Simply believing in your God because it feels good and you can delude yourself is not compelling.

Things have meaning because we place value on them. I value my relationship with my friends and family. I value the things I like to do, I value myself and many other things.

The fact it's likely going to end someday doesn't affect how much I value everything. On the contrary, it makes all those things even more valuable.

Personally, what I think is bleak is your viewpoint. If you think your life is meaningless without your God, that is a very depressing position indeed.

You haven't displayed how either one of those is an emotional appeal... One is an argument built on a faulty premise, and the other is the appeal to emotion fallacy. Sorry, but that's not an Achilles Heel in the slightest.

 

[Gadarene]

then you are lying to yourself...all one has to do is follow your money trail to find the god on the other end.

Nah, not buying this.

Every Christian who makes this trite little claim is operating on a double standard.

I don't actively worship anything. I remember what it was like to worship God - nothing feels close to that anymore, because I don't worship anything.

Now, somehow not actively worshipping (let's say) money, apparently makes me a money-worshipper.

But none of these Christians making this daft statement treat would ever consider that not actively worshipping Christ makes them a Christ-worshipper.

When that changes, maybe I'll consider that your claim has any validity at all.

 

[Dave Ellis]

then you are lying to yourself...all one has to do is follow your money trail to find the god on the other end.

How on earth are you lying to yourself if you don't have a God?

Are you so closed minded to not even be aware that there are people who genuinely reject the idea that your God exists?

 

[jpcedotal]

Nah, not buying this.

Every Christian who makes this trite little claim is operating on a double standard.

I don't actively worship anything. I remember what it was like to worship God - nothing feels close to that anymore, because I don't worship anything.

Now, somehow not actively worshipping (let's say) money, apparently makes me a money-worshipper.

But none of these Christians making this daft statement treat would ever consider that not actively worshipping Christ makes them a Christ-worshipper.

When that changes, maybe I'll consider that your claim has any validity at all.

It is not money I am talking about but what one is spending it on. Christians, including myself, are just as guilty of this.

Where does God rank in my checkbook? It isn't the first thing I take out every week.

 

[jpcedotal]

How on earth are you lying to yourself if you don't have a God?

Are you so closed minded to not even be aware that there are people who genuinely reject the idea that your God exists?

you missed the point...I am not talking about God, I am talking about the arrangement of the importance of objects/people in one's life signifies that which one worships.

What is the most important thing in you life? It is not what you say it is, it is what you spend the most money/time on.

That is one's god.

 

[Gadarene]

It is not money I am talking about but what one is spending it on. Christians, including myself, are just as guilty of this.

Where does God rank in my checkbook? It isn't the first thing I take out every week.

That's nice. Doesn't address my point. Christians operate on a double standard because they treat not actively worshipping something (except Christ) as worshipping that something.

 

[quatona]

Worship has never required a supernatural being.

I can agree with the definition of atheism being the non-belief in any supernatural power or being, but that is different than a non-belief in a god...which is humanly impossible.

Everyone has a god or gods.

Fundy redefinition and false equivocation project?

 

[jpcedotal]

That's nice. Doesn't address my point. Christians operate on a double standard because they treat not actively worshipping something (except Christ) as worshipping that something.

There is no point there...this is fabricated nonsense. Please give an example.

 

[Gadarene]

There is no point there...this is fabricated nonsense. Please give an example.

You would not consider someone who did not actively worship Christ to worship Christ, would you not?

 

[jpcedotal]

Fundy redefinition and false equivocation project?

no, simple Scriptural regurgitation from a redneck slang slant.

 

[Dave Ellis]

you missed the point...I am not talking about God, I am talking about the arrangement of the importance of objects/people in one's life signifies that which one worships.

What is the most important thing in you life? It is not what you say it is, it is what you spend the most money/time on.

That is one's god.

Ok, I see what you're trying to get at.... However, I still disagree with you.

Just because things are meaningful or important to you does not mean you "worship" them. Likewise, using the title "God" for that thing isn't really a valid descriptor.

And what on earth do you mean "it's not what I say it is"? If we're talking about what I spend the most time and money on, I actually nailed it perfectly with the first thought that popped into my head.... Still, I don't consider that thing "my God". It's just simply not a good description.

 

[Gadarene]

Ok, I see what you're trying to get at.... However, I still disagree with you.

Just because things are meaningful or important to you does not mean you "worship" them. Likewise, using the title "God" for that thing isn't really a valid descriptor.

And what on earth do you mean "it's not what I say it is"? If we're talking about what I spend the most time and money on, I actually nailed it perfectly with the first thought that popped into my head.... Still, I don't consider that thing "my God". It's just simply not a good description.

Precisely. Just another attempt to put belief on a par with non-belief.

 

[quatona]

I understand: You actually meant to say "valueing" when you said "worshipping". And you meant to say "purpose/goal" when you said "god".

 

[jpcedotal]

You would not consider someone who did not actively worship Christ to worship Christ, would you not?

As in, someone who professes to be a Christian with their mouth, but their deeds do not show a conscious effort to heed to Christian values?

 

[Dave Ellis]

I personally do not believe that atheism does justice to our awesome universe, nor does it do justice to us as humans.

I think the best way to treat something with the justice it deserves is to be 100% honest and truthful about that particular thing.

Attributing a God to the universe when none exists just diminishes the actual beauty and power of nature.

However, this belief was not my primary impetus in starting this thread. My primary impetus was the desire to make known the not so obvious implications of atheism and how many (not all) of those who are nontheists live, think, and act in contradiction to their position of the lack of belief in gods or God.

I appreciate your willingness to try to understand our position. Asking questions and listening to our responses is the only way to gain a greater understanding.

What do you mean by us living, thinking and acting in contradiction to our lack of belief in God though? I'm not sure I know of any Atheist that lives like that?

 

[jpcedotal]

Ok, I see what you're trying to get at.... However, I still disagree with you.

Just because things are meaningful or important to you does not mean you "worship" them. Likewise, using the title "God" for that thing isn't really a valid descriptor.

And what on earth do you mean "it's not what I say it is"? If we're talking about what I spend the most time and money on, I actually nailed it perfectly with the first thought that popped into my head.... Still, I don't consider that thing "my God". It's just simply not a good description.

So the word "god" is what you are rebuking? That seems awful trivial way of defending atheism.

"And what on earth do you mean "it's not what I say it is"?"

I am simply saying that what we say is important more often than not is not what actually is the most important. Our actions define us, not our words.