The Achilles Heel of Atheism

[jpcedotal]

So words like "god" and "worship" is what atheism is trying to disassociate itself from?

 

[Dave Ellis]

You are the one that claims my signatures are speaking of or somehow incorrectly "representing" atheists.

I'd certainly call them a misrepresentation of my position, and most (if not all) atheists I know.

 

[quatona]

So words like "god" and "worship" is what atheism is trying to disassociate itself from?

No, they are simply misnomers here. That´s been pointed out to you. It´s not "what atheism is trying to" do - it´s just a response to your false equivocation.

 

[Dave Ellis]

So basically atheists lack a belief in gods or God because they want to? Is this more correct?

Not really, "want" doesn't enter into it.

If we are not convinced by the evidence, we don't believe it. That's not unlike anything else... I don't believe in the Loch Ness Monster either because I haven't seen empirical evidence for it. However, there's plenty of people who think Nessie has been swimming around the Loch for hundreds of years.

That's something I'd actually love to find out was true, it would be great if there was a new undiscovered species, or perhaps lost species of dinosaur still alive. It would be incredibly exciting, but it's not realistic.

Likewise, the thought of an afterlife of eternal paradise would be awesome... I can't think of anyone who would rationally not want that if it was offered. But again, it's wishful thinking. Without any reason to think it's actually there, there's no point in assuming it's anything more than a nice concept.

 

[jpcedotal]

Offensive (as in attacking, not as in vulgarity) Negativism is the sword of atheism.

 

[jpcedotal]

Not really, "want" doesn't enter into it.

If we are not convinced by the evidence, we don't believe it. That's not unlike anything else... I don't believe in the Loch Ness Monster either because I haven't seen empirical evidence for it. However, there's plenty of people who think Nessie has been swimming around the Loch for hundreds of years.

That's something I'd actually love to find out was true, it would be great if there was a new undiscovered species, or perhaps lost species of dinosaur still alive. It would be incredibly exciting, but it's not realistic.

Likewise, the thought of an afterlife of eternal paradise would be awesome... I can't think of anyone who would rationally not want that if it was offered. But again, it's wishful thinking. Without any reason to think it's actually there, there's no point in assuming it's anything more than a nice concept.

So what about the old saying that it would be better to believe in God and be wrong than to not believe in God and be wrong?

How does that fit into your worldview?

 

[jpcedotal]

No, they are simply misnomers here. That´s been pointed out to you. It´s not "what atheism is trying to" do - it´s just a response to your false equivocation.

What is the defensive mechanism of atheism?

 

[Dave Ellis]

So the word "god" is what you are rebuking? That seems awful trivial way of defending atheism.

"And what on earth do you mean "it's not what I say it is"?"

I am simply saying that what we say is important more often than not is not what actually is the most important. Our actions define us, not our words.

I'm only rebuking the use of the word God there because it's not an appropriate use of the word.

The Christian God, or Zeus, or Allah or beings like those are Gods.

Labelling a hobby or something you value in your life as your "God" comes with a lot of unnecessary baggage. For example, I've seen numerous Christians try to turn that argument into something along the lines of "Well see, you have a God!".... where that's not true, I have people in my life and hobbies that I value. Labelling those things as God is not necessary. It just gives them a chance to play with definitions.

 

[Dave Ellis]

So words like "god" and "worship" is what atheism is trying to disassociate itself from?

Not necessarily... We don't have a problem with the word God when used in a proper context, and many Atheists do actively worship something.

 

[quatona]

What is the defensive mechanism of atheism?

Atheism has nothing to defend, in the first place. While each individual atheist surely has individual main purposes, values and goals these aren´t predicated or determined by their atheism.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Offensive (as in attacking, not as in vulgarity) Negativism is the sword of atheism.

Please explain?

 

[Skavau]

Offensive (as in attacking, not as in vulgarity) Negativism is the sword of atheism.

The "sword" of atheism if anything is skepticism towards theism.

So what about the old saying that it would be better to believe in God and be wrong than to not believe in God and be wrong?

How does that fit into your worldview?

What of the saying? I don't operate on credulity. I don't operate assuming that pleasant things are true just because think they aren't might lead to negative things happening to me. That is a self-absorbed and dishonest attitude that leads to cognitive dissonance and the staltification of critical thought.

I'll take the sobre truth any day over wishful thinking.

Not to mention: Belief does not work that way. You cannot believe something just because its conclusions seem pleasant.

 

[Dave Ellis]

So what about the old saying that it would be better to believe in God and be wrong than to not believe in God and be wrong?

How does that fit into your worldview?

That gambit is known as "Pascal's Wager".... It's a deeply flawed argument when you look into it.

If you want for me to explain why, I'm more than willing to.

 

[Dave Ellis]

What is the defensive mechanism of atheism?

Logic and Reason.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

So what about the old saying that it would be better to believe in God and be wrong than to not believe in God and be wrong?

How does that fit into your worldview?

Which god would it be better to believe in and be wrong than to not believe in and be wrong?

QI : Pascals Wager - YouTube

 

[Eudaimonist]

So what about the old saying that it would be better to believe in God and be wrong than to not believe in God and be wrong?

How does that fit into your worldview?

It's better to keep one's integrity and be mistaken, than to give up one's integrity and be accidentally correct.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Elioenai26]

This is not true.


This excerpt found under the heading, First Part - Matter and Mind , in the original post, is an exact copy & paste from Wikipedia's entry for "Materialism".
Unless you,Elioenai26, wish to propose that you are the Wiki-author of the Materialism article at Wikipedia. Which would still require that you enter a source for Materialism, as your own work. And would even be expected, so as to credit your research into that particular topic at another site.

What also calls into question the originality of this Elioenai26 work at first sight is this: 　

That symbol, which I do not know the name for, that appears in the original posting, is not something that appears on a forum when someone is drafting an original thread at their keyboard. Nor is it something that appears when they're drafting a thread for posting somewhere, while working on their word or notepad.

However, it is something that appears when someone is copying and pasting from a printed work found online.

In any event, your assertion: "I shall reference my sources if I need to use any." on post #41 at page 5, reiterates that in your mind the OP is your original work. Which Wikipedia's Materialism entry and the excerpt from there that appears here verbatim as noted above, is proof you intentionally omitted your source in that one matter. And that you twice affirm you need not note sources to your original post because it is your original work. Which, is not true.

This and the odd symbol that does not appear in original works, makes the OP in it's entirety non-credible as an original work. And as such, in my opinion, can be said to be the true Achilles heel of your position on this matter of the flaws you personally find in and the issues you address, regarding Atheism.

Plagiarism then is your Achilles heel, when you expect to be respected for your original posting.

Anyone who would care to take the time to dissect the OP in it's entirety, based on just two examples of other source evidence, may find even more discrepancies to your repeated insistence that this is your own work.

It's a tragedy that you feel the need to sin in this way, in order to attempt to discredit Atheism, by stealing other peoples intellectual property and claiming it for your own.

Dear Amber Bird,

I am thankful and grateful that you have written what you have to me. I sense and appreciate the conviction and sincerity in your words. I shall try to endeavor, by God's help, to respond in a manner worthy of such a heartfelt post.

When I say that "this work is my own", I simply mean that the thoughts, ideas, phrases, and flow and train of thought from one topic to another, expressed in paragraphs, composed of sentences, made of individual words has come from my mind and heart according to what I have learned and what I have assimilated over the period that I have been interested and studying these subjects. I did not give the reference to the wikipedia definition of materialism because I was in a hurry to get my post typed before my internet connection was cut off (it cuts on and off periodcially despite having the best ISP in the area!) and I was using my wordpad program (my Microsoft Word does not work for some reason either!) so I was typing my post in wordpad so I could save it as I went and then I copied and pasted it from wordpad to the Christian Forum website. I have to do this because as I said earlier, I have in the past, been working on lengthy posts and my internet connection gets severed and my IE browser shuts down. This is a tedious way of writting posts here, but if it is going to be a lengthy post, I have to do it this way.

With regards to referencing works in my posts and replies, I usually only supply a reference if it is a direct quotation, or something that I feel someone is going to want to verify the accuracy of. I have used bits and pieces of material off of wikipedia as I am sure many have here, and have never referenced it. But I see now that it is better if I do.

And this brings me to the real reason why I wanted to thank you for encouraging me and helping me. I thank you for holding me accountable with regards to my work here. It is important to me, as God has shown me, that everything I do here must be done with understanding and sensitivity to everyone involved. I, for some time past, have been writting the things I have by mainly relying on my intellect and knowledge, instead of relying on The Holy Spirit. It is very easy for me to get caught up in defending myself, not realizing that I have no reason to do this. For it is not myself that I am speaking of or writting about here, but my blessed Lord and Savior. I have not seen the importance in acting in humility and the temptation to defend myself has been something I have given into many times here.

Having said that I would like to apologize and ask your forgiveness as well as apologize to Gadarene, Skavau, Belk, quatona, ToddNotTodd, Genersis, BuffMonkey, Eudaimonist, Davian, Archaeopteryx, Dave Ellis, Freodin, and I know that there are others here who I have had the privilege of learning from but I just cannot remember their names. I apologize for this forgetfulness as well.

As a disciple of Christ, I believe that God has many lessons for me to learn with every single person that I come into contact with in my life. I have come to know that nothing is without purpose and meaning, and that many times it is in those who I least expect to learn something from, that I end up learning the most! Not only about myself but about others and how they see things. Christ teaches me that knowledge and learning apart from humility and love, profit me nothing. I have been blessed in many ways by my Lord and I know that because of this, much shall be required of me; for to whom much is given, much will be required.

This process up until now, especially last night as I was shown that I would be humbled before you all, has been very advantageous to me. And I know that in the end, it shall workout for my good.

I have been quite busy with several other things in addition to my job, so I apologize for the delay in writting this.

By the way, I ask you all to hold me strictly accountable for my words here. I pray that everything I say may be appropriate to the matter and that my words may be gracious, true, sincere and spoken in love.

May all things praise Him!

 

[JGG]

Worship has never required a supernatural being.

I can agree with the definition of atheism being the non-belief in any supernatural power or being, but that is different than a non-belief in a god...which is humanly impossible.

Everyone has a god or gods.

What would help me understand this would be some explicit examples of these other "god or gods" that people "worship."

 

[Steve Petersen]

The Achilles Heel of Atheism is also the Achilles Heel of anyone making proclamations about the immaterial. There is no emprical proof either way.

 

[Amber Bird]

Dear Amber Bird,

I am thankful and grateful that you have written what you have to me. I sense and appreciate the conviction and sincerity in your words. I shall try to endeavor, by God's help, to respond in a manner worthy of such a heartfelt post.

(...)
...By the way, I ask you all to hold me strictly accountable for my words here. I pray that everything I say may be appropriate to the matter and that my words may be gracious, true, sincere and spoken in love.
​

May all things praise Him!

'Whoever exalts himself will be humbled and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.' Matthew 23:12



I extend my arms to you as an offer of a sincere hug, that there is peace between us my brother.

Before he left this life, Samuel had made for me a custom pendant shaped like a stone tablet. And upon that was engraved the simple scriptural chapter reference: Galatians 5.

I wear that to this day, and feel it's presence now as I read your sincere remarks here. It keeps me grounded in my bond with many things. And it brings me back to center when I feel I've veered off course.
It is with sincere and humble heart that I accept your words and offer my own apologies if my remarks regarding the content of your post, and the Wikipedia entry, came across as harsh or as an attack against you personally.
I find in reading myself again in that particular post, that to my own ears at the end especially, I sounded self righteous and perhaps bitter. Perhaps I'm projecting my emotions where they have no place at certain times when I invest my attentions to this particular topic, which I hold to heart having loved dearly an Atheist once upon a time and even still.

Perhaps, if I may be so bold, I can share this passage with you brother. And perhaps it will help you to see Atheists in a softer light, if you will.
1 Timothy 4:10

For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

I think of this scripture and that of Jeremiah, when I write that regardless of whether the Atheist believes in God it does not mean that God does not believe in the Atheist.

I see the community of this Earth as children of God. All people. Even those I see as radicals. Judgment that may be, and still I trust that when there is one God from whence all things sprang then we all are but one family of soul, trying to find our way through life till the day the doors open and call us home.

Having said that in print, I realize I may inspire many Christians to emotion and claiming that is not how a "true" Christian thinks. Projecting that is possible I will say, I have listed my beliefs as Christian seeker. And though I've been quite busy today and not able to peruse the board fully, before I left last time I recall seeing a post that asked something to the effect; Am I a Christian? I have some really strange beliefs.

Though I have not read more than what I recall of the thread title on the "New Posts Menu", maybe this seeker could ask the same thing of herself. Though I do feel and have most of my life, the love and kinship of Christ.

Jeremiah 31:34
For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Again, bless you brother for your sincere introspection and daring to be so honest and share your heart here. There are a great many topics on these forums that can bring emotions to a boil, as we all take things personally.
But that's life, isn't it. And what a blessing it is to journey and learn so much from so many.

God's peace journey with you and all of the CF family.