The 7 a.m. 6 pack

[Hupomone10]

And, delving deeper into theology, if you think that the Gospel is only about getting out of Hell, then your gospel is too small.

I don't.
Please elaborate (for my sake) on how the gospel delivers from alcohol, gets one through withdrawal, and establishes a person in ongoing sobriety/recovery. We may be closer than you think.

 

[sk8Joyful]

I don't.
Please elaborate (for my sake) on how the gospel delivers from alcohol, gets one through withdrawal, and
establishes a person in ongoing sobriety/recovery. We may be closer than you think.

It does not, hence my response.

The "Gospel" no more does that, than it delivers pedophiles, (their recidivism-rate is about 99%).
In fact in most churches, they are quietely enabled. And that's a proven fact, tragic!!! tho it is.

 

[Hammster]

Do you have any experience with alcoholism either in yourself or a family member? We who are alcoholics do have experience, and some of us are also professionals in the field.

If you do not have any experience on alcoholism, why would you post here at all? Do you have specialized training in addictions or alcoholism? Are you in recovery yourself? That would be like me giving advice on how to fix an automobile. I have no experience in doing so, and nobody in my family worked on autos.

I'm pretty sure I'm qualified to post here. My dad abused alcohol until I was 12. I drank from age 16 til I was 27. I went to rehab once and went to scores of AA meetings. I also know that life isn't easy for believers. I have a wife with a chronic illness. It has progressed to the point that if the new meds don't work, she may be dead in five years. We have lost a child in infancy. Plus other stuff people go through. Yet through all of that, I have been sober for fourteen years this month. And even if I hadnt stayedcsober, my advice would be the same because my problem would be the same. I still struggle with sin issues. Just like every other Christian.

 

[madison1101]

I'm pretty sure I'm qualified to post here. My dad abused alcohol until I was 12. I drank from age 16 til I was 27. I went to rehab once and went to scores of AA meetings. I also know that life isn't easy for believers. I have a wife with a chronic illness. It has progressed to the point that if the new meds don't work, she may be dead in five years. We have lost a child in infancy. Plus other stuff people go through. Yet through all of that, I have been sober for fourteen years this month. And even if I hadnt stayedcsober, my advice would be the same because my problem would be the same. I still struggle with sin issues. Just like every other Christian.

Thank you for sharing your struggle with me. I appreciate getting to know you. Sharing your testimony allows me to feel like we have something in common. That is one of the many reasons why people in AA share their experience, strength and hope with others. It allows people to relate to each other, and drops barriers.

I am thrilled for you to be able to stay away from alcohol for 14 years. You, like many others, were successful in avoiding the alcohol using whatever means you have used. Many people are successful using means other than AA. I share AA, because that is what is working for me.

I am curious to know what steps you took, what specifically you did to avoid drinking and get rid of the urge to drink. In the beginning it is so tempting to fall back into old ways, just as with any other sin issue.

I appreciate your willingness to be open here, and let us know something about you. Thanks for sharing.

Trish

 

[BlessEwe]

I'm pretty sure I'm qualified to post here. My dad abused alcohol until I was 12. I drank from age 16 til I was 27. I went to rehab once and went to scores of AA meetings. I also know that life isn't easy for believers. I have a wife with a chronic illness. It has progressed to the point that if the new meds don't work, she may be dead in five years. We have lost a child in infancy. Plus other stuff people go through. Yet through all of that, I have been sober for fourteen years this month. And even if I hadnt stayedcsober, my advice would be the same because my problem would be the same. I still struggle with sin issues. Just like every other Christian.

The humbleness of your tone opens up my heart and I would like to apologize for the way I acted to you. You see with this post you are coming to our level and sharing your views, which I will say could really help someone. I sorta felt ( and I have gotten it from many at the church) uppity Holy nosing lol I just made that up. It hurts many who need help so very much. And my claws came out, so forgive me please.

Testimonies I feel bring people to the level of the one suffering too.

I am sorry to hear about your wife too Hamster.

Also perhaps open a thread the Gospel vs. AA and talk about how it helped you, as this is what this recovery area is all about.

Lord Bless You

 

[Hupomone10]

Also perhaps open a thread the Gospel vs. AA and talk about how it helped you, as this is what this recovery area is all about...

Yes indeed. And if I have in any way offended you, Hammster, OR sk8, I'm indeed sorry. In defense of life-or-death truth, I can get over-zealous.

As I was thinking on this very subject this afternoon, I let my fingers do the walking, and God brought me accidentally to one of those rare gems we occasionally find. I know it's long, but many on this forum will appreciate it. I had tears as I read it. It is another thread on this site, from "Faith Groups" forum, "Deeper Fellowship", by gideons300...

"Without the promises, what do we have to offer the addict? Without the Promises, What Do We Have to Offer Those Bound By Sin?

I say this in love, even though it is truth, for it needs to be said. I fear that the gospel as commonly preached in our churches has nothing to offer the drug addict, the prostitute, the sex addict, or the soul addicted to alcohol. NOTHING. We cannot offer them deliverance, victory, liberty, for if we have not found it for ourselves being saved to the uttermost, delivered from the power of sin in our own lives, we have nothing to give, for the principle of God is still "Such as I have, give I thee."

We cannot even truly offer them friendship or Christian fellowship, even if they say the sinner's prayer, even if they repent of their sin. They will still, after all, remain bound to their sins as we are to ours, yet most of ours are "socially acceptable"...whereas theirs are not. Let's be brutally honest with ourselves and each other here. Is it not time to finally do so, and strip off our masks of contentment and admit that we have not found the yoke easy and the burden light.

If a drug addict gets saved and struggles with his sin like we struggle with ours, and if they show up one Sundays unbathed, high and wasted, falling again into the sin that binds them, do you really think they will remain welcome in our midst?Sadly, I think we all know the truth. Their sins are simply not "acceptable ones" as most of ours are.

Listen. If we ourselves do not serve a God who can set free from sin in our own lives and our sins are "small", what hope do we have to give someone who needs an answer possessing real power to a sin that is decimating their lives?

Is stopping sinning simply a choice? If it is, then what is our excuse for continuing on in our own pet sins? And if it is not, we best be on our knees seeking the answer, and not falling into a contentment without godliness. That, friends, is dangerous ground indeed.

If we believe that holiness is simply a matter of being good and choosing to obey, then we simply do not understand the power of sin and the weakness of the flesh of man that we all possess. Choice is not enough. The power of God must be on display.

Simply put, it takes God Himself to break the chains wrapped tightly around a man's soul. How I long for us to see this, that holiness, victory over our fleshly nature, is our greatest need, and His even greater supply.

God help us to become a church full of delivered saints, who can testify openly, proudly and loudly, that Jesus is able to "save to the uttermost them that come to the Father by Him". We all have our religious form, our doctrines of belief, but it is a scary thing to think we may well be those He had in mind when He said that there would be those in the last days who would have a form of godliness but yet in our actions, deny the power of it in our lives.

Do we serve a God able to deliver us from us, or one simply able to forgive? How strong is our God? Fellow believers, please do not take this as a putdown, for it is not. It is but a loving call for us to examine our very foundations of what we believe about Jesus and His purpose in our lives, and more than that, His abilities to bring about that purpose despite our weakness.

The early church was not made up primarily of "religious folk", but social outcasts and vile sinners who found a loving God who delighted in setting people free from their sins that bound them. Delivered saints are excited saints, and this excitement spread the gospel around the known world like wildfire. Saints who have been forgiven much love much.

Could this be the reason why we seem to have such little true love for our Lord, because we do not see ourselves as needing much forgiveness...but just enough to cover our "little sins"? Perhaps this explains why we see the church basically shifting members much like musical chairs, with plenty of new members, but they are just replacing those that moved in due to boredom themselves. In the early church, tongues of fire came down upon each believer at pentecost. Sadly, today, I fear we have plenty of smoke, but no fire.

God has not changed, nor has His purpose for us. he wants to change us into the image of His Son. He wants to make us holy...in thought and in action.

Thus we have a huge decision to make. It falls on our shoulders to either walk on in an acceptance of defeat, an acceptance that we are "just human" and to tell God in effect, "I am not hungry for real liberty, for I am satisfied in simply being forgiven and going to church".... or to cry out to God in a loud unified voice to deliver us from the sins that bind us, large and small, and to show us the secret to tapping into the power of godliness.

Make no mistake. God still takes great delight in delivering His children that hunger and thirst after righteousness from their fleshly nature, and by doing so, setting them free from the sins that so easily beset them.

Our God has promised us freedom from that old nature, freedom to abide in Him in victory all day, every day. He offers us a "new creation" whereby He sups with us daily, and through the abiding experience, causes us to walk in His statutes, giving us not only the desire to be holy, but the power to be as well.If we are to offer hope to the lost, shackled and chained to their sins, we must first ask our Lord to remove the shackles from our own souls, and believe that it is God's will that we walk in the free indeed that Christ offers us.

May our faith rise to apprehand that for which we were apprehended.

"Lord, you said a smoking flax you will not quench. We admit that we have but smoke, and no fire from on high to set others free, for we ourselves are bound. Strip away our facade that would play like all is well with our souls, when inside loniness, defeat, depression, doubt, sin and condemnation is far more the average experience that walking free indeed in your Son. Breathe on us, O Lord, and awake us to see you high and lifted up. We acknowledge our iniquity, and humble ourselves under your mightly hand, so that you might lift us up and get all the glory. You can do exceedingly abundantly above and beyond all the we ask or think. Move in our midst again, dear God and save us from the hand of our enemy. Replace our unbellef with faith in your amazing promises and cause your bride to awake from her sleep and put on her strength, you yourself. AMEN."

Blessings,
Bruce

After one has poured out his heart in straight-forward honesty to God like that, I have nothing to say, but identify because I've been on both sides of THAT fence. I can do nothing but pray along with him...

 

[YoDude]

Excellent post, Hupomone10.

We don't let go of our little sins because we are afraid to live without them, we don't have 100% faith in God's power or provision - we believe it, but we don't live it, because we are afraid.

The problem is, no one else lives like that (or at least anyone I know), the hypocrisy can make one stumble. To live in pure faith makes you different, non-mainstream, even non-christian mainstream. God's light shines through you, and lots of others won't understand, we are afraid to stand up, we are afraid to be different in such a big way, we are afraid to be outcast, we are afraid to go it alone on such a martry path.

I agree with you totally, but I am afraid.

 

[sk8Joyful]

Excellent post, Hupomone10.

We don't let go of our little sins because we are afraid to live without them,
we don't have 100% faith in God's power or provision -
we believe it, but we don't live it, because we are afraid.

The problem is, no one else lives like that (or at least anyone I know), the hypocrisy can make one stumble.

I agree with you totally, but I am afraid.

How can you be afraid? - when *living-with-God* makes you a majority

re: "To live in pure faith makes you different,
non-mainstream, even non-christian mainstream." - PRAISE God, we can live-different

God's light shines through you, and lots of others won't understand,
we are afraid to stand up, we are afraid to be different in such a big way, we are afraid to be outcast.

Boy, mentioning fear seven times, keeps you stuck, in more of the same. -

That flies in the face of God, who -mind you- created you to be & live courageous...

 

[Hupomone10]

Excellent post, Hupomone10.
We don't let go of our little sins because we are afraid to live without them, we don't have 100% faith in God's power or provision - we believe it, but we don't live it, because we are afraid.

The problem is, no one else lives like that (or at least anyone I know), the hypocrisy can make one stumble. To live in pure faith makes you different, non-mainstream, even non-christian mainstream. God's light shines through you, and lots of others won't understand, we are afraid to stand up, we are afraid to be different in such a big way, we are afraid to be outcast, we are afraid to go it alone on such a martry path.

I agree with you totally, but I am afraid.

Thanks for commenting. I agree, You're right; we do have fear of giving up those personal sins. If you don't mind, I was wondering what it's a fear of, possibly living without alcohol? or the fear involved in what the article mentioned?, reaching out to people in need?, or rather maybe reaching out to the church to get involved with them in spite of their shortcomings?
Thanks again.

 

[madison1101]

How can you be afraid? - when *living-with-God* makes you a majority

re: "To live in pure faith makes you different,
non-mainstream, even non-christian mainstream." - PRAISE God, we can live-different


Boy, mentioning fear seven times, keeps you stuck, in more of the same. -

That flies in the face of God, who -mind you- created you to be & live courageous...

While perfect love, God's love, casts out fear, a believer can be fearful. Fear is a human emotion, which can also become a pattern. If one does not really grasp God's love, then one will be afraid. I was a believer for almost 20 years when I first came to AA, but I was extremely fearful. I knew Jesus, but lived in terror. I had experienced many traumas as a child, and was extremely anxious. It took a lot of therapy, and a lot of time meditating on scripture before I could experience God's perfect peace. I can be right back in that fear pattern if I am not careful. I must read some scripture daily, and meditate on it, daily. I must claim God's Word, and cast out that fear. Yet, I am still fearful.

 

[madison1101]

How can you be afraid? - when *living-with-God* makes you a majority

re: "To live in pure faith makes you different,
non-mainstream, even non-christian mainstream." - PRAISE God, we can live-different


Boy, mentioning fear seven times, keeps you stuck, in more of the same. -

That flies in the face of God, who -mind you- created you to be & live courageous...

While perfect love, God's love, casts out fear, a believer can be fearful. Fear is a human emotion, which can also become a pattern. If one does not really grasp God's love, then one will be afraid. I was a believer for almost 20 years when I first came to AA, but I was extremely fearful. I knew Jesus, but lived in terror. I had experienced many traumas as a child, and was extremely anxious. It took a lot of therapy, and a lot of time meditating on scripture before I could experience God's perfect peace. I can be right back in that fear pattern if I am not careful. I must read some scripture daily, and meditate on it, daily. I must claim God's Word, and cast out that fear. Yet, I am still fearful. I am a work in progress.

 

[Hammster]

I don't.
Please elaborate (for my sake) on how the gospel delivers from alcohol, gets one through withdrawal, and establishes a person in ongoing sobriety/recovery. We may be closer than you think.

Okay. I can do that. Give me a reason someone might want to drink to excess.

 

[YoDude]

Thanks for commenting. I agree, You're right; we do have fear of giving up those personal sins. If you don't mind, I was wondering what it's a fear of, possibly living without alcohol? or the fear involved in what the article mentioned?, reaching out to people in need?, or rather maybe reaching out to the church to get involved with them in spite of their shortcomings?
Thanks again.

Thank you for your interest, mainly it is an issue of who has control of the wheel - currently I seem to want to have all the control, even though I still have a mindset of pre-destination, and I believe it is the reason for my limited fruit. I know where I need to be, and how to get there, I am just struggling to let go and allow the Spirit to take total control. I am not fighting it, I am just living a dual life of worldliness and pretend godliness. I believe I am like many other Christians, but perhaps just more aware of my spiritual shortcomings.

 

[Hupomone10]

Okay. I can do that. Give me a reason someone might want to drink to excess.

Resentful at spouse because of inadequate sex life, one totally different from expectations set up prior to and immediately following marriage. Mixed with marriage with a controlling person, somewhat independent yourself, and getting blindsided by that.(mix that with a lot of immaturity due to never confronting life issues so challenging)

 

[madison1101]

Okay. I can do that. Give me a reason someone might want to drink to excess.

Emotional pain from childhood sexual abuse trauma, mixed with guilt and shame over divorce.

 

[Hammster]

Resentful at spouse because of inadequate sex life, one totally different from expectations set up prior to and immediately following marriage. Mixed with marriage with a controlling person, somewhat independent yourself, and getting blindsided by that.(mix that with a lot of immaturity due to never confronting life issues so challenging)

thank you. It starts with first understanding who you are and the depth of your sin against God. God is holy. We are not. It isn't just recognizing that we are sinners. It is understanding the depth of our sin and what it cost God to secure forgiveness. What we (myself included) tend to do is hold others up to standards that we feel we have met. That way we feel confident in being critical towards them. But we aren't the standard. Jesus is. When we are honest with ourselves we will see that we are no better than those we are angry with; those who have hurt us. Our sins are just different, that's all. Jesus told the parable of the man who was forgiven much but then went out and had a man thrown into prison because of a miniscule debt by comparison. That's us when we won't forgive those who sin against us. We will make their sins against us to be worse than our sins against God. We may know better, but we do it anyway.

Our response to the Gospel should be a gratitude so great that it spills into our everyday life. That gratitude comes from a deep self-examination of our sinfulness and the great gift given to us. It can't just be surface level. I used to be resentful of my wife for various reasons. And I didn't understand how to be Cross-centered. Once I started to see how great a sacrifice was made for such a wretch as I, then my attitude towards my wife changed. And her attitude towards me changed. Obviously there is no way to say that happens every time, but it is proverbally true. But even if my wife's attitude hadn't changed, it should have in no way changed my behavior.

It is simple, really. But not easy.

 

[Hammster]

Emotional pain from childhood sexual abuse trauma, mixed with guilt and shame over divorce.

If this is you you're describing, then I am deeply sorry for your pain. Nobody should have to go through abuse like that. As far as the pain, based on the answer above, it will lessen over time. You need to get to the point of extending true forgiveness.

As for the guilt over a divorce (or any guilt for that matter) meditating on the promise that there is no condemnation for those in Christ. Your divorce, if done for non-biblical reasons, is one of the sins Chrisf died for. Any guilt that comes is from Satan.

Unfortunately, these posts may seem overly simplistic. I do not intend them to be. But the answer is simple. It works if you work it, and work at it.

 

[madison1101]

If this is you you're describing, then I am deeply sorry for your pain. Nobody should have to go through abuse like that. As far as the pain, based on the answer above, it will lessen over time. You need to get to the point of extending true forgiveness.

As for the guilt over a divorce (or any guilt for that matter) meditating on the promise that there is no condemnation for those in Christ. Your divorce, if done for non-biblical reasons, is one of the sins Chrisf died for. Any guilt that comes is from Satan.

Unfortunately, these posts may seem overly simplistic. I do not intend them to be. But the answer is simple. It works if you work it, and work at it.

Thank you for sharing this with me. What I did when I first started to deal with my childhood traumas, which are more than just the sexual abuse, was I went to therapy. The church I was attending 20 years ago, did not teach me what you have shared in the two posts here.

In therapy, I learned I needed help with my alcoholism. There are some Christian recovery groups, but none were in my part of the world 20 years ago. I began to attend AA. My psychotherapist is not a Christian either, because such therapists were not covered by my insurance 20 years ago. Given my understanding of Psalm 1:1, as well as Titus 2, I felt it necessary to seek a woman to mentor/disciple me.

It took me a few years, but I finally found just the right woman to guide me in my walk with the Lord. Her name is Ruth, and she taught me the Truths you shared about who I am in Christ, and how to be whole, and forgive myself, as well as others. She has been guiding me for ages now, and it has been such a sweet, blessed relationship. She sees the need for me to participate in AA for several reasons, and encourages me in that aspect of my recovery. I continue with psychotherapy, as my diagnoses are complex, as are my addictions, in that I am not only addicted to alcohol, but other substances, as well as behaviors.

I now have my therapist and psychiatrist, for my mental health issues, AA for my addiction to alcohol and drugs, and Ruth to guide me in my walk with the Lord. It works and I am grateful for that.

It is possible that had I had Ruth's teaching, and did not have the mental health issues making my alcoholism more complex, I could possibly have gotten sober just with the Truth of the Gospel. What I appreciate is that I have the opportunity to spend a few hours each week with unsaved women who are seeking and searching, and I make myself available to speak with these women, and get to know them, and pray I have the opportunity to someday share the Gospel and bring some women into the Kingdom.

 

[Hupomone10]

thank you. It starts with first understanding who you are and the depth of your sin against God. God is holy. We are not. It isn't just recognizing that we are sinners. It is understanding the depth of our sin and what it cost God to secure forgiveness.

THE SHORT VERSION: your counsel is right on target; I tried that, and it didn't work for me.
THE LONG VERSION: when this happened I understood all that; had even taught it to others. I had been saved for many years; I definitely understood fully the depth of my sin and our indwelling sinful nature; in fact I knew that we in fact ARE sin. We are sin through and through; and because we are sin, we think sins, we act sins, we talk sins. I had thoroughly studied and taught the truths of Romans 6,7,8, about death to Self and the old Nature, Christ our life, etc; and yet when in the middle of this, I couldn't seem to make the connection or make it apply. I probably went through Romans once a year and such deeper life works every few years. What you say is right on target, and it would be good... for the next few months. But life's stresses were cumulative. Eventually she went out of town to visit her family, and it had been a bad time; so suddenly the thought occurred to me that I could get a few drinks and would feel better (ever heard that in AA?). I took my resentment out by finding relaxation. Nothing more probably than many guys have done by getting a few relaxing drinks after a day's stress of another kind. But because it seemed to make life much more endurable, I repeated this drinking.

I need to also explain that because I knew the Word and the spiritual process, I confessed the sin, repented of the sin, had no intentions of ever repeating it again, but when the next family visit time came near, I would begin to feel the pleasure of relaxation that comes with a few drinks, even before it came; but still nothing sinful intended. The problem was that we were t-totallers (no drinking at all). So I kept it hidden. The next problem was that it was drinking for the wrong reason - drinking AT something instead of as a casual beverage. Those are two entirely different reasons for drinking (for the non-alcoholic). The third problem was that as these times approached, unknown to me the uphoric rush I would feel at the thought of it and looking forward to it became more powerful.

This became a habit, the falling to drinking, as well as the repentance and confession; each time resolving and trying to make it more real and serious than the last time. I seriously, sincerely felt I was where I needed to be, as victorious believer, father, and husband. I was told by her family and friends of her family what a wonderful husband and father I was, not knowing that to do that meant being somewhat of a passive doormat. But that was fine with them; because this was a matriarchical family (no offense intended ladies ) and the friend families were the same. I was not an outdoorsman or macho man, but deep inside I was definitely a man, not a pansie, if that makes any sense.

What we (myself included) tend to do is hold others up to standards that we feel we have met. That way we feel confident in being critical towards them.

I need to elaborate and share that I was never resentful to her personally and didn't treat her in any way other than as I thought the model Christian husband should, and tried to be that model father. That's why it was sort of stored up and finally came out when she was gone. She had an unusually close relationship to her own family, and typically had a phone bill of $100 per month, back in the 80's & 90's; and I gladly let her do it and never complained. We went into debt 3 different times to the tune of $10,000 and took 401k funds out to pay for it, and it wasn't due to my drinking in those days (once ever 6 months drinking around $25 worth) and I didn't have any hobbies but Bible study. As for sex, I checked with a psychologist friend, and sex once every 3 weeks for a beginning marriage, people in their 20's, wasn't normal and therefore wasn't a standard I had and was holding her up to. Wanting the other person to admit at least once in a while when they're wrong, instead of having to win every discussion and point, is not an unrealistic standard I don't think either.

What I wanted was a better marriage, but it wasn't enough of an issue to bring up to anyone. Any of the godly men I knew at the time would have told me, well, something like this...

When we are honest with ourselves we will see that we are no better than those we are angry with; those who have hurt us. Our sins are just different, that's all. Jesus told the parable of the man who was forgiven much but then went out and had a man thrown into prison because of a miniscule debt by comparison. That's us when we won't forgive those who sin against us. We will make their sins against us to be worse than our sins against God. We may know better, but we do it anyway.

I'm not in any way belittling this truth, but it's very standard counsel from men to men, in the body of Christ anyway. "If there are any problems, she hasn't done anything to you as bad as you've done to Christ, so suck it up, be a man, forgive, sacrifice, be the one put upon rather than the one who puts on others. You're supposed to 'come through', because you're the man." I did talk about this with my associate pastor, and this together with the counsel you gave, is pretty much what he gave. But it didn't work, not for me, not at that time, and in spite of knowing all this by heart.

Our response to the Gospel should be a gratitude so great that it spills into our everyday life.

This is what SHOULD be; but I was living in the real world, and life wasn't what it should be either. SHE wasn't what she should be; so I was being called to ignore all that and just suck it up, go on, be a man, and take it.

That gratitude comes from a deep self-examination of our sinfulness and the great gift given to us. It can't just be surface level.

I did have such a knowledge of my sinfulness, having walked with the Lord and a student of His word for many years. But that knowledge eventually led me to ask "what's wrong with ME. Why can't I get it?"

I used to be resentful of my wife for various reasons. And I didn't understand how to be Cross-centered. Once I started to see how great a sacrifice was made for such a wretch as I, then my attitude towards my wife changed.

As I mentioned, my attitude toward my wife while around her was exemplary. So much so that all our friends at church were completely floored at the situation of my drinking; and there was no obvious reason for it. They never knew what I am relating on this site. So it just appeared that I woke up one day and decided, "hey, I've got a wonderful family, a wonderful job, a wonderful life, a wonderful spiritual and church life; and I think I'll drink myself into oblivion!" In other words, they felt fooled by me, and I was evil.

And her attitude towards me changed.

My wife's attitude toward me never changed; she thought my drinking was all my own problem; we never got anywhere when we discussed the issues of our romantic life; and she never went to counseling with me, an AA meeting, or an Al-Anon meeting. So, as you've said, I learned early on that my recovery couldn't be about whether her attitude or actions would ever change or not.

I know this is a lot to digest, but I want your response to such an individual and am interested what you will counsel him given this situation, and the fact that the above advice lasted about 3 months, then more drinking.
Thanks,
H.

 

[Hupomone10]

Thank you for your interest, mainly it is an issue of who has control of the wheel - currently I seem to want to have all the control, even though I still have a mindset of pre-destination, and I believe it is the reason for my limited fruit. I know where I need to be, and how to get there, I am just struggling to let go and allow the Spirit to take total control. I am not fighting it, I am just living a dual life of worldliness and pretend godliness. I believe I am like many other Christians, but perhaps just more aware of my spiritual shortcomings.

If I understand what you're saying then, it's fear of letting go of that control, that's the fear. I understand. Regarding the thought about predestination, there were ideas I had carried all along that that I now had to re-evaluate in the context of whether it helped me overcome alcohol and save me from sure death, whereas before I could just entertain the discussion and not decide one way or another. Back then it wasn't a life and death issue, but now it was. Other ideas were wrong, and they were contributing to my demise.

You will have to now think through these areas, pray through them, and see what is real truth, partly by what actually works and what just hinders the process. For example, regarding predestination, that may be true, but it doesn't have anything to do with overcoming alcohol obsession. It would lead one to the subconscious conclusion that since God predestines salvation, He predestines a lot of other things; and since He grants faith, then He grants overcoming faith as well. So there's nothing I can do but sit by and wait for Him to plop down that measure of overcoming faith that I need, then I will overcome it.

Regarding control; you have discovered a pearl in the whole process. With the alcoholic, much of it is about control. And most of the stress in life is concerning issues I have no control over, but an inner desire to control. That causes stress. Stress leads to drinking. To counter this, I made a list of things I'm powerless over, since I knew I was powerless over alcohol, and I read this list every day, reinforcing slowly the thought process that most of life I was powerless over. The outcome was being well-established on the principle of powerlessness, and being comfortable with my lack of being able to control much of life. And that spilled over to helping my drinking problem.

But it came about slowly as my mind was renewed.