The 7 a.m. 6 pack

[YoDude]

Go do some research on how bad alcohol really can be on your body and mind, I bet most did not know that unchecked stress + alcohol is a recipe for an early death. I can't remember the exact mechanisms, but the liver not only filters out alcohol, but it also filters out all the terrible things that are harmful to your body (like stress induced compounds / chemicals / etc). These stress induced chemicals do not get properly disposed of by the liver when you are drinking heavily (cause the liver is too busy trying to eliminate the alcohol, or is 'sick' and not working well), so these harmful chemicals can roam the body doing damage when they should have been filtered out by the liver.

So, stress + alcohol is actually a double whammy to your health - the temporary stress relief you get from alcohol is actually setting you up for more damage from stress and less ability to deal with it. You may get away with heavy drinking for decades, but don't be suprised when the clock runs out in your 50's or 60's. I am a working stiff myself, I find it so tragic after years in the workforce, to finally retire and enjoy the flowers in your last stage, and you may have even quit drinking after decades of abuse, then you get sick and die a couple of months after your retirement party. I have 2 persons in my life that this happened to, a close Uncle, and my wife's father; worked their whole lives, retired, played a few rounds of golf, then got cancer and died. It is very sad, and I don't want to end up that way - STOP DRINKING DUDE, OR YOU COULD DIE - don't play games with your health, there is a future you counting on you to not mess up his retirement, don't do that to future dude. Don't mess up his ride, don't become a sad tragedy, get away from alcohol, just do it, don't wait, do you really want to experience a bottom? It can get really bad, don't go there, my friend.

 

[Hupomone10]

I notice you haven't yet said whether you have a desire to stop drinking. Do you still hope you will be able to drink normally once again?

That subconscious obsession to drink can be very powerful. But once you start down the road to recovery, it will lessen over time.

 

[RuthD]

I am praying for you.

 

[BobW188]

For heaven's sake! Who here has said anything about not going to the cross? Or about not going to a pastor? More than one of us were sent to AA by a pastor - in fact, there are pastors who have gone themselves to restore their sobriety - and although AA says it is not a specifically Christian program I have never been to a meeting that did not close with the Lord's Prayer.

Yes, we should always go to the Cross. And do you have any idea how many of us have gotten to it through programs like AA and NA? Believe me, if you start there and take it seriously, you'll in short order be aware you're a sinner.

 

[BlessEwe]

Hamster, in my own personal experience Christ was the only way to my recovery. I went to church very sick and dieing, yet people were too busy throwing out the sin judgment ( not that you are doing that) ..It was Christ alone that pulled me out of the pit I was in.
It was the gentle, non judging people who put their wing over me while Christ opened the doors for me to find the help.
I felt the thumb of the enemy pushing me so far down to die, and the stronghold of addiction had me in its grasps knowing it was sin.
I screamed to God for help, but i needed to get to a place where I finally surrendered. We already know the sin of it, we know the scriptures.

After some time in recovery I went back to school as a drug alcohol counselor and I did my internship at a christian outreach for drug addicted women off the streets.. I saw God working miracles. It is called baby steps and seed planting allowing Christ to do the work.
Support and education of the disease while the body is detoxing from its flesh desires. They are being taught about the disease, and Christ and are learning scriptures while in recovery. These teaching then can go from the head to the heart and healing begins

Now if it is in your heart to write down the scriptures, go for it as it may turn a lightbulb on for someone, if it is done through Christ and not our judged flesh AA is based on the bible but they changed the format of it to outreach to all, hopefully seeds are planted and they find recovery somehow.

Addiction when it gets to its grasping stage does things to us morally that we said we would never do. At this stage the pre-occupation devours our inner soul, at this time the brain has completely change and can not function unless we have that fix. It takes a lot of support, love and education to get through the 1st year while the brain is healing.

With God this can happen as you are talking with one who has been there done that. He worked through people who understand addiction with out judgment as I already hated myself enough as it was. My broken self got so bad I was dieing in an ambulance on the way to the hospital, in a black-out I called 911 (but I know it was God). The emergency room doctor on call was a detox doctor in recovery for drug addiction himself.. Another God thing...

I did all of this while going to church ( and no one knew Hamster, nor reached out a hand)

Understanding the outreach of helping others in addiction is so important as we can say something that can send them out again. With some they go back out and die. I have seen it)

 

[BlessEwe]

If I went through these threads, how many times do you think I'll find the cross emphasized over AA? It certainly didn't happen in this thread until I said something. And then I was attacked.

Also, what you've mentioned above is pragmatism. Just because God works through AA doesn't make it good.

Also Hamster, let me ask have you ever been to a meeting of any sort?

 

[Hammster]

Also Hamster, let me ask have you ever been to a meeting of any sort?

Before I was saved I went to a lot. Different metings in different cities at different times. And not once did I have the gospel presented to me. A few testimonies from some Chrisians explaining that Jesus was their higher power, but no gospel.

 

[BlessEwe]

Ummm how come I knew you were going to completely jump over my testimony..

Well I am not going to debate with you...

 

[Hammster]

Ummm how come I knew you were going to completely jump over my testimony..

Well I am not going to debate with you...

I meant no disrespect. I didn't see it. I do this from my iPhone and when I click to go to the last post, that's what I see.

In regards to your testimony (or mine or anybodys), saying what God has done in our lives isn't the Gospel. Christ's story is the Gospel.

 

[sk8Joyful]

I've always drank.

Past 8 months: life's been hell on earth. Each day brings no happyness. There's temporary joy in music, movies, baseball . . . but all that's just a rather hollow substitute for true joyfulness in living that should be there.

This sucks.

In this thread, you get the usual christian responses:
: Pray to God to deliver you from this sin.
&
: via related counselors, become a faithful AA-member.
Others have gone so far as to say that AA is bible-inspired; & you are sinful; & neither! is true.
(The bitter-poison of alcohol is but that: another poisonous drug.
Hence, increasingly self-poisoning, you know fails making any sense.)
FULL STOP!
-----------
Here's a great! Start: You already did accept God/Jesus
as your personal-soul SAVIOR ?
then, you are a sinner no more! - Rejoice!!! therefore, for living *in-Christ* you are by Him... daily led

Since you Chris already are aware,
movies & music (alone) are 'temporary substitutes', the hard part is done. - Simply additionally determine...
what you would like your best LIFE, as you yourself already mentioned "true joyfulness in living" to feel... like.
Truely, I mean down to the last (fully-sensorially-experienced) detail, as God blessed you with personal self-control skills.
How? would you enjoy this life, once you know how...
Understand
starting with many FREE-resources like the Library, plus your own mind, the Internet, Self-help forums, etc -
additionally there are Short-classes you can take, where you can learn *how to build your life*,
(similarly as to how people learn building a real Log-house, & zillions of other Life-skills).

Because I have taught Life-classes for decades; (& none of them 'rocket-science' either), I teach with skill & confidence.
In fact, when you live from God/Christ's suggestion: "Wanna enter heaven? -Convert as a LITTLE child"
(God judged the operative word here being LITTLE), you will soon discover how easy & fast you learn, and
how rich will be your enduring & increasing JOYs.......

I wish you Chris ALL the best you are richly deserving of, and
which God, your Savior so much wants you to enjoy... PRAISE God!
.

 

[Hupomone10]

If I went through these threads, how many times do you think I'll find the cross emphasized over AA? It certainly didn't happen in this thread until I said something. And then I was attacked.

Hi Hammster:

I will be glad to discourse with you. Did you read any of my posts? Don't remember if they were there before or after your previous entries that were deleted. The picture I selected for my avatar has special meaning for me. It has the cross as its central point to remind me of Christ's indwelling Presence which WILL not change, and His finished work (in both salvation and deliverance) which CANNOT CHANGE. The dove is in the middle to remind me of the Holy Spirit's indwelling presence. He is holding a Bible to remind me that my strength is through God's Word which cannot fail. The man has a black background to remind me that "that which is flesh is flesh" and the flesh will NEVER change until I get my new spiritual body. It reminds me that by my own self-effort I will sooner or later return to sin, if not alcohol then some other sin which will make me weak toward alcohol. In the alcoholic arena, it reminds me that I must ALWAYS be conscious of the fact that I have pushed my body beyond the point where it has physiologically changed and I will never be able to safely drink again. Hope that clarifies.

 

[Hupomone10]

OOPS. Almost forgot. The word on the avatar that cannot hardly be read is "FAITH", reminding me that it is all by faith: faith in Christ's indwelling Presence which will not change, His accomplished work which cannot change, and His Word which cannot fail.
For victory over alcohol temptation, we always have Christ's indwelling Presence, our POSITION in Christ and all that entails, our RICHES in Christ with all that entails, and it is all accomplished through His (the H.S.'s) power, not our own self-effort.

Focusing on my POSITION in Christ is the only thing that will truly bring growth in my CONDITION here in this life. This is deep, but I know you can digest it.

 

[Hupomone10]

In this thread, you get the usual christian responses: dot, dot, dot
-----------
what you would like your best LIFE, as you yourself already mentioned "true joyfulness in living" to feel... like.
Truely, I mean down to the last (fully-sensorially-experienced) detail, as God blessed you with personal self-control skills.

[FONT=&quot]“The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so-called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink. The almost certain consequences that follow taking even a glass of beer do not crowd into the mind to deter us. If these thoughts occur, they are hazy and readily supplanted with the old threadbare idea that this time we shall handle ourselves like other people.” [/FONT]

These words are from Bill Wilson, BB, p.24. Every true alcoholic has found them to be true. They have discovered that God has not blessed them with personal SELF-controlled skills at least, regarding alcohol. That is why the universal theme, and the only one which will bring health to the real alcoholic, is the theme that God alone can do in them what they cannot do for themselves. It is almost impossible to understand this condition unless you've been there or have had a similar stronghold that you didn't find deliverance from except through Christ's power, presence, and provisions. Some of the things we can offer can actually do harm rather than good. Giving counsel to an active alcoholic which amounts to focusing on feelings can be deadly, as he/she has to learn it must be "Intellect over Emotion, I/E" (Father Martin). But thanks for your interest and support.

 

[sk8Joyful]

[FONT=&quot]“The fact is
[/FONT]

Did you know, that more often than not, those 3 words,
end-up boiling down to another 'self-Limiting belief';

but "the fact is" sounds so knowledgable

[FONT=&quot]that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure,

have lost the power of choice in drink.
[/FONT]

The reasons, are only 'obscure' for people who don't know,
the problems ... beneath the surface.
Once such are healed, said people once again are at-choice...
[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We are unable,
at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force,
the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago.
[/FONT]

On the contrary, most people drinking/drugging themselves into
oblivion, are quite consciously miserably-suffering, & humiliated.
But
such goes contrary to God's will,
who wants (as at 1st. created) each person WELL...
so -
After helping a person STOP! - what these precious people additionally need,
is someone guiding... them into the life of their finest... dreams
hence my earlier post.

And some of us, are involved in similar work. PRAISE God!

These words are from Bill Wilson, BB, p.24.
[FONT=&quot]We are without defense against the first drink.
[/FONT]That is why God alone can do in them
what they cannot do for themselves.

Believing "I can't", turns a person into,
until they stay Stuck as, a victim and that's criminal!

he/she has to learn it must be "Intellect over Emotion, I/E" (Father Martin).

Actually, anyone healthy... knows how to BALANCE both Intellect and Emotion

"God wants

every one of His children to switch...
And how well He teaches us this
through our disappointments, including our failures past and present." - Kay Arthur

Sorry, those writings do NOT, not even remotely, resemble "what God wants".
so -
No wonder too many such people commit suicide! -
Foolishly driving people off the brink, please STOP!!

Every true alcoholic has found them to be true.

Like I said: THANK GOD! - people who successfully ... heal,

(never bought-into brainwashing, of being "true"
to some life-limiting condition); but
instead, they accepted: I can HEAL

But thanks for your interest and support.

You bet: as a very interested & interesting teacher,
I continue SUPPORTing people's & student's HEALTH-adventures & developments... PRAISE GOD!
.

 

[sk8Joyful]

the flesh will NEVER change -

until I get my new spiritual body. Hope that clarifies.

That additional Limiting-belief, is - fortunately
not supported by the facts, of body "replacing" itself, routinely, anywhere from 1/2-hr. to 7 yrs.

The stomach-lining about twice an hour.
The skeletal-system takes longest, up to 7 years.

(Great! at @ 60 my Iceskating bones are ever growing stronger, more tensile, & more flexible... PRAISE God!)

Do feel Free! to operate from New-awarenesses...

 

[BlessEwe]

That additional Limiting-belief, is - fortunately
not supported by the facts, of body "replacing" itself, routinely, anywhere from 1/2-hr. to 7 yrs.

The stomach-lining about twice an hour.
The skeletal-system takes longest, up to 7 years.

(Great! at @ 60 my Iceskating bones are ever growing stronger, more tensile, & more flexible... PRAISE God!)

Do feel Free! to operate from New-awarenesses...

What! The body may change for things like what your talking about, but sorry the Brain never forgets and addiction is a brain disease. Have you ever wondered why people after decades of sobriety end up dead in a hotel room if they start up again. It is like going back to exact same place you were when you stopped in the first place. If it were as easy as growing a new fingernail that would be Awesome!

Originally Posted by Hupomone10 View Post

These words are from Bill Wilson, BB, p.24.
We are without defense against the first drink.
That is why God alone can do in them
what they cannot do for themselves.

Horrible: via such brainwashings, you keep them stuck...
in victimhood

What Bill is talking about here is taking that first drink will awaken the sleeping tiger as they call it. Addiction changes the brain but in the subconscious it is like a book being filed. You re-open the book and the New chapter begins, or a re-peat of the old ones.

AA recovery is not about being a victim it is
the complete opposite of victimization. The 12 steps is used in a christian recovery as well in many churches without changing the format at all, the only difference is we all know who our higher power is...Jesus Christ The thing with AA is many come into the program not knowing who they are let alone a relationship with Christ, once they start to sober up a bit many of them find a Awesome relationship with Christ.
The 12 steps is a program to learn your negative self talk will bring you down fast, and to change what they call the

Stinken Thinken

Even in the secular programs they encourage church attendance and the connection with God.

There are many personal roads to get to God and to sobriety. The key is to find the road out in the darkness and start walking, sometimes being carried by Christ alone.

 

[Hupomone10]

Did you know, that more often than not, those 3 words,end-up boiling down to another 'self-Limiting belief'; but "the fact is" sounds so knowledgable

As mentioned before, "These words are from Bill Wilson, BB, p.24. Every true alcoholic has found them to be true." Argue with him please. I'm merely testifying in my own experience the validity of them.

The reasons, are only 'obscure' for people who don't know,
the problems ... beneath the surface. Once such are healed, said people once again are at-choice...

[FONT="]

I did find healing, if you wish to term it that way, through the process and steps of AA and the follow-up of a Christ- and God- and scripture-centered personal recovery plan. I didn't call it healing; but it did involve much healing. The problem with some of the "healing ministries" is that they seem to emphasize experiential truth rather than a change in the mental programming that must happen and will happen if we renew our minds through God's word.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

Horrible: via such brainwashings, you keep them stuck...
in victimhood

I will reiterate the obvious, that you do not understand real alcoholic; because I am being read by many who are real alcoholics; if they think your
re here to help and not to argue or proselyte into some form of "healing ministry" they will write back. You have to understand; the people here are here for recovery, not for debating theology, even theology of recovery. They know what works, because they have been working it. Consider Bob who has 28 yrs. And they know of the quotes I'm using.

I'm sorry to say this, those writing do NOT, not even remotely, resemble "what God wants".

(comment on the Kay Arthur quote at signature) I will get back to you on some scriptural evidence on this one; for scriptural evidence is something all who are here for recovery and not to proselyte or argue will accept, and they also accept time-proven AA quotes; which I offer no apology for using.

Kay Arthur needs no defense from me. As I said, have to go now, but I'll be back with verses to support. Have a nice day. And God bless. Not finished, just have to go. (deleted)

THANK GOD! that people who are successfully ... helped to heal,
including ones you'd inflict calling "true alcoholics",

I ask for their opinion. Have I offended any of you here for recovery or encouraging recovery of others by referring to you as alcoholics?

 

[Hupomone10]

It is a great danger for any true alcoholic to consider themselves healed of alcoholism. Experience bears this out, scripture bears this out, and my own experience of several attempts to think I was healed and could drink normally, even after the reasons for drinking were gone, bear out. And the lives of more than I could here mention

 

[Hupomone10]

Originally Posted by sk8Joyful
After helping a person STOP! - what these precious people additionally need,
is someone guiding... them into the life of their finest... dreams; hence my earlier post.

If you read this thread, you will realize that Zooma is having a hard time with that "STOP" part. They (we) do need after that to pursue our dreams. That is part of life; but a person who is not sober cannot achieve the dreams God has for them. Therefore, sobriety and getting past the point when the mental obsession begins to fade is essential, and a necessary FIRST essential. This is why people recommend meetings. It's a fellowship of people with whom you can identify; not people who talk about everything being great and rosy and happy. Their lives are not very happy right now. They need stories from those of us who have been there, and have come out. Having been there gives them something with which they can identify. And it tells them a very important truth: they are not UNIQUE and uncurable; they are simply a garden-variety alcoholic and there is therefore just as much hope for them as for the next guy in the room who has recovered. And secondly, the FACT that he/she has a period of sobriety considerably more than themselves tells them it is possible.

 

[Hupomone10]

In regards to your testimony (or mine or anybodys), saying what God has done in our lives isn't the Gospel. Christ's story is the Gospel.

Forgive me, but I don't think BlessEwe said her testimony was the gospel. In defense of testimony, the apostle Paul on several occasions gave his testimony. One very good one is in 2 Corinthians 12, where he described a "thorn in the flesh" that he couldn't get over. The Lord told him that grace would be enough for him; he didn't need the thorn taken away. Because that very thorn was what kept him humble (and I might add, therefore useful to us by writing the letters he did.) Just a thought. Let the gospel be the gospel, and let testimony be testimony. There is a place for both. Paul said.