The 10 Commandments are done away!

This may be helpful to this discussion.
Ask Pastor Mike – Legalism - 4/29/2016 = Audio sermon Link
God’s Word is clear—there is nothing we can to do to earn, buy or borrow God’s forgiveness. But does that mean it doesn’t matter how we live now? We’ll discuss that question with Mike Fabarez and look at Scripture’s patterns for obedience in light of God’s grace. It’s on this edition of “Ask Pastor Mike.”

I'm going to share this in the other threads I've participated in wherein the issue of the moral laws of God and the Sabbath are contested. I hope this audio sermon helps those who seek deeper answers. At least that is my prayer.

tatteredsoul said:

Commandments 1-4 (and applicable "Thou Shall not..." commands) = Love God with all of your hear, might and strength.

Commandments 5 - 10 (and all applicable "thou shall not..." commands) = love your neighbor as you love yourself.

The commandments from God, and how to worship Him in the spirit are four. The commandments from God, and how to treat other humans are six. Four is a spiritual number of creation; six is a number of man. This was not a mistake.

Faith without works is dead; your work is obedience to God's law which is FOUNDED. It does not justify your salvation; it is a measure of your faith.

Because, let's be honest: if you actually had faith in God's heavy-handed judgment, righteousness, jealousy (= zeal,) and justice, you would try your best not to break any of His commandments - just like you would have faith in your parent(s) justice, reprimand and zeal s that you try your best not to break any of their rules. Does your obedience to your parents invalidate your sonship/daughtership to them? NO. Would they still love you? Yes. Would they long that you eventually come to OBEY THEIR RULES, and use what they have taught you in your life to better yourself? Of course!

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Maybe that's why you're tattered.

bugkiller

bugkiller said:

Maybe that's why you're tattered.

bugkiller

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Interesting. No, I am tattered because I used to do as I wanted to do. I used to believe as long as I believed in "Jeesusah" I was saved. As long as I loved people I was cool. But, that never set well with me. I got a big revelation, and I got spanked for my selfishishness, idolatry and ignorance of God in the long run. Now, I am tattered, but not consumed.

tatteredsoul said:

What did Christ say? Lust in the heart alone convicts you as an adulterer. Hate in your heart alone convicts you as a murderer.

If you love someone, you will not commit adultery against them. If you love someone, you will not murder them. If you love someone, you will not deceive them. If you love someone, you will not envy what they have: you will be happy from them. If you love your neighbor, you will not steal from them. If you love your parents, you will honor them. You cannot love your parents or fellow man in a Godly way if you do not follow those commandments of God, respective to the object. Outside commands: if you love your your fellow man, you will forgive his/her debt after seven years (another spiritual number) of servitude - no matter the debt balance. (Laban swindled Jacob, and exploited Jacob's love for Rachael.)

God gave the 10 commandments because man became literally too SLOW and EVIL to listen to the God-given conviction He gave to their hearts. The 10 commandments and other laws clearly went over Israel's head again, so (already in the works) God Himself came down to teach us. Now, 2100+ years later and we still don't get it? That He didn't come tout change Law? That not one jot or iota would be removed from the law until heaven and earth pass away?

There is no lukewarmness in worship. If you want to be on God's team, you have to follow His rules. If you dont, then dont. But, don't make Him out to be a liar by saying one of the foundations of His instruction so no longer valid - even by using Him Himself as justification. You can't serve two masters, and claim to love someone while at the same time hurting them. Don't you think God would call you a liar if you claim to love Him, but you adorn yourself and your company with idols? Do you think God would agree if you when you say you love Him, but you also like to follow Cthulhu, Zeus, and Enki?

By the OP logic, I can still claim to love my neighbor, but covet him and be completely justified before God. I can claim to love my neighbor, and steal his food (justifying to myself that I need it more than him,) and be completely justified before God. My neighbor would tell me I have a strange definition of love.

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You can ignore it when Jesus was asked what was the greatest commandment and he didn't mention a single one of the 10 but instead said love your neighbor. It is based on this commandment that lust and hating is predicated NOT on the 10. Under the 10 nobody was EVER punished for lusting but adulterers were often stoned to death the 10 says nothing about thoughts and the hearts but rather are about outward actions.

Jesus was also talking to those who were UNDER the Law when he mentioned lust = adultery trying to show then that the 10 were NOT ENOUGH to stop sin nor were they HIS standard of what sin is in Christ we are held to a higher standard than the 10 commandments by his higher standards the 10 are essentially obsoleted and replaced by better commandments.

tatteredsoul said:

Interesting. No, I am tattered because I used to do as I wanted to do. I used to believe as long as I believed in "Jeesusah" I was saved. As long as I loved people I was cool. But, that never set well with me. I got a big revelation, and I got spanked for my selfishishness, idolatry and ignorance of God in the long run. Now, I am tattered, but not consumed.

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My personal experience is I was tattered by the dual teaching and requirements. I no longer am and I dearly love my new found peace. I hated the war caused by false doctrine.

bugkiller

bugkiller said:

My personal experience is I was tattered by the dual teaching and requirements. I no longer am and I dearly love my new found peace. I hated the war caused by false doctrine.

bugkiller

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I hated the condemnation I felt when I was constantly told that my salvation rested upon keeping rules else I was going to hell.

BobRyan said:

The New Covenant is where God says "I will write My LAWS on their heart and on their mind" -- and makes that covenant with the "House of Israel and the house of Judah" Hebrews 8:6-10 - declaring that the Sinai commandments were given to us by Christ.



Is the "New Covenant" a "bad thing" in your POV?

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Prophesies are given to tells us exactly what God will do in the future or He is not God at all. Why would someone only tell selected words that leaves out detail that contradict their claims?
Jer 31:31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
BobRyan left out the fact that if God makes a "new covenant", it automatically means that the old covenant goes away. That's why after the new covenant was in place Paul explained the fulfilled prophesy.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

BobRyan wont tell you that Christ died to redeem us from the transgressions under the first covenant, which are the list of commandments in the law.
Heb 9:15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
BobRyan will reject the fact that the Old Covenant is the ten Commandments.

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
BobRyan is silent on the text saying that the new covenant will not be like the one made with the fathers out of Egypt?
Exo 34:28And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Deu 4:13And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Deu 10:4And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me.

Sophrosyne said:

I hated the condemnation I felt when I was constantly told that my salvation rested upon keeping rules else I was going to hell.

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Another thing that irritated me is the constant preaching against things I as a Christian never do while there was no building up of the Christian.

bugkiller

Cribstyl said:

Prophesies are given to tells us exactly what God will do in the future or He is not God at all. Why would someone only tell selected words that leaves out detail that contradict their claims?
Jer 31:31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
BobRyan left out the fact that if God makes a "new covenant", it automatically means that the old covenant goes away. That's why after the new covenant was in place Paul explained the fulfilled prophesy.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

BobRyan wont tell you that Christ died to redeem us from the transgressions under the first covenant, which are the list of commandments in the law.
Heb 9:15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
BobRyan will reject the fact that the Old Covenant is the ten Commandments.

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
BobRyan is silent on the text saying that the new covenant will not be like the one made with the fathers out of Egypt?
Exo 34:28And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Deu 4:13And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Deu 10:4And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me.

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Excellent my friend!

bugkiller

Four Angels Standing said:

I think the last part of Romans 5:13 is important to see there. Imputed=to ascribe to or charge (a person) with an act or quality because of the conduct of another over whom one has control or for whose acts or conduct one is responsible.

God told Adam and Eve in the garden, thou shalt not....
They disobeyed. How is it that it is missed? And that there are teachings concerning original sin? Wrong action. God's law emanated from his mouth when he commanded obedience of the first people to his rule about the fruit of the tree of knowledge.

Furthermore, while Jesus was with his Disciples teaching them his words, reiterating the ten commandments, are we to think that after he died none of that mattered anymore? Jesus said love your God with all your heart and mind, love your neighbor as yourself. Upon these two commands do all the commands and laws of the prophets hang.
That's exactly right. Because the ten commandments were all about love of God and love of our neighbor.
While there are those who now argue that Jesus only meant to reiterate that, even in his sermon on the mountain, and after he died on the cross it was all to mean nothing? No longer apply?

So you're not then to love God with all your heart and mind. You're not to love your neighbor as yourself. Because Jesus accomplished all that on the cross? What exactly did he accomplish that would take those edicts away and make them to no longer apply in our behaviors toward God and our neighbor?

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Are you kidding me?? Why are you silent on the first part? Is that a reasonable response to Rom 5:12-14? It's not surprising to me how some people will ignore truths and spin new webs. Here is the motif of what we're talking about: "for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
Paul says.... Its a fact that sin was in the world before the law.
The context makes it crystal clear that the wages of sin was death from Adam, and there was no 10 commandments to break until Moses.

Sophrosyne said:

I hated the condemnation I felt when I was constantly told that my salvation rested upon keeping rules else I was going to hell.

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If you check the statistics of those who claim to keep the law, you'd find the ratio for divorcé, murder, stealing, adultery consistent with those they condemn.

bugkiller said:

Another thing that irritated me is the constant preaching against things I as a Christian never do while there was no building up of the Christian.

bugkiller

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well I felt that I could never measure up no matter how hard I tried so I gave up I wanted nothing to do with a god that kept track of everything bad I did and I felt I couldn't do enough good and that my heart was sinful even my thoughts damned me. When I see these people preaching keep this and that commandment with the onus that we are inferior to them because we don't pretend to "do as they do" it really irks me.

Cribstyl said:

If you check the statistics of those who claim to keep the law, you'd find the ratio for divorcé, murder, stealing, adultery consistent with those they condemn.

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Yes... when I tell them I've never murdered anyone or committed adultery unlike David who is a "champion" to them about how he "loved the Law" yet was the worst sinner imaginable they have a huge disconnect. How can someone love the Law yet IGNORE it so viciously? We are better off just tossing the Law aside and dealing with God and begging for mercy and say we in no way can ever manage to "look good" according to the Law it is a wasted effort to go from 5% good to 10% good when God demands 100% good.

Cribstyl said:

Are you kidding me?? Why are you silent on the first part? Is that a reasonable response to Rom 5:12-14? It's not surprising to me how some people will ignore truths and spin new webs. Here is the motif of what we're talking about: "for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
Paul says.... Its a fact that sin was in the world before the law.
The context makes it crystal clear that the wages of sin was death from Adam, and there was no 10 commandments to break until Moses.

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It's shameful how they will cite 1John 3:4 as a premise, knowing it's more likely a reference to after the law was given. The translation proves that the word for law is not used. So John is saying: Sin is lawlessness (acting like there is no law).

Cribstyl said:

If you check the statistics of those who claim to keep the law, you'd find the ratio for divorcé, murder, stealing, adultery consistent with those they condemn.

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Show that table please.

Cribstyl said:

Are you kidding me?? Why are you silent on the first part? Is that a reasonable response to Rom 5:12-14? It's not surprising to me how some people will ignore truths and spin new webs. Here is the motif of what we're talking about: "for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
Paul says.... Its a fact that sin was in the world before the law.
The context makes it crystal clear that the wages of sin was death from Adam, and there was no 10 commandments to break until Moses.

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I do believe you're speaking to someone else. You're not taking into context all that I've posted here.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.



Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The current Pope on Jewish evangelism
http://religionnews.com/2015/12/10/vatican-catholic-jews-jewish-anti-semitism/

.

It's interesting that people argue, some rather rudely and from a center of pride, that the ten commandments Jesus reiterated in his sermons no longer apply today. Then they argue that instead, the laws of God are written on our hearts. As if it is a matter of stone tablets being at issue no more.

Jesus told us that love of God and loving our neighbor are, love, are that upon which all the laws of the prophets are suspended. The Ten Commandments were about love because right, righteous, behavior is born from love.
It could almost be said that those who argue the Ten Commandments, from which there the arrived the other 602, that are again the guideposts for morality being argued not to apply anymore should concern those who are in Christ greatly.

The import of that argument should frighten the one who is Justified in Christ. To the point they realize that spirit that is acting behind the mouthpiece that avows immorality is the law of the day.

When God's laws are written in our heart, they've been translated from those stone tablets that certain one's here seem to find repellent. Jesus said those laws do not change until the earth no longer exists. Guess what?

The next time the Christian here encounters someone that tells them the command of God not to steal no longer applies, clutch your wallet close.
The next time the Christian here encounters someone that tells them the command of God not to commit adultery, say a prayer for their wife.
And on and on and on. Because that which is trying to convince you that morality absolutely does not apply because they're fixated on thinking the laws of God written on stone tablets are done away, as they argue the laws of God are now inscribed in our hearts, are quite frankly not of God. Plain and simple.
Because they are contradicting themselves with every word. Where do they think those laws, those ten, went to but to the heart of the believer? When they claim God's laws are in our heart now?
From the tablet to the inner man and woman in Christ.

All these pages wasted arguing with those who hope to deceive the saints and yet who's efforts in that regard are made known by the spirit of God with every word they type.

God's laws are not done away. Anyone that tells you they are , when those laws are inscribed in our hearts as the faithful, are liars sent straight from Hell.
Pray they return there. But do not give them your time because they're hoping to lead you home with them and that is nothing any Christian wants any part of.
GET YE BEHIND US SATAN!
It's as plain as that.

Sophrosyne said:

WRONG!..... The commandments of adultery and Murder are NOT about loving at all but rather about NOT HATING.

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That's a lie.

The commands against adultery and murder are all about love. If the husband loves his wife, the wife loves her husband, they DO NOT commit adultery. Loving one's neighbor as one's self precludes the desire to MURDER!

One can HATE his brother as much as he wishes (or hate their neighbor) and not be guilty under the 10 commandments of ANYTHING (not sinning according to them).

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Please let all the Saints of God read that bolded admission by Sophrosyne carefully. I bolded it just so it could not be missed.
1 John 4:20
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

Remember sisters and brothers also, Matthew 7:22