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I believe He has a complete, cohesive, continuous plan for our fallen race and it is our misunderstanding that separates it into 3 different dispensations. To me, God is Order and would not give such a piecemeal message for us... that seems like the confuser's work to me.I believe there is a difference between obeying the OT law and the doctrine found in the NT.
As I replied to Extraneous, there is a continuous, cohesive flow to the gospel that doesn't have a part 1 and a part 2 and part 3. Yes, God gave the light of truth progressively throughout the Bible and Christ came to show us the perfection in that truth, not a departure from it.The Laws Moses gave don't offer forgiveness for those who sin knowingly and men could not know how to live without sin: unless they had a model to show them the way.
Mercy is an essential part of perfection, as it is through showing mercy that one maintains a heart of flesh. The law given to Moses was not to provide perfection, but rather was given to teach man that they need to turn from sin, but how? That is were the Laws of Moses end and the laws of Christ begin. Perfection is found through the practice of Love and compassion for all men: especially the most unlovely. Unless you love the worst of mankind: why should God love you? You are far closer in character to Hitler, than you are to God, and yet the evil in mankind exists today because of their hatred for sinners: instead of having it expelled through LOVE.
Moses and the Old Covenant Laws are not the way to Salvation: Jesus and the New Covenant Laws are.
Then you don't believe that Jesus was tempted as we are, that He didn't overcome sin, that He didn't lived a sinless life? What example is that if he had different rules to live by? That's not what the Bible teaches...Deu 22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.
Joh 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
Joh 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Joh 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
Joh 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
Joh 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Not only did Jesus violate the laws Moses gave, he encouraged others to violate them also.
People say that Jesus kept the Laws of Moses perfectly, THAT IS NOT TRUE: Jesus lived by a higher law.
The Bible says "The GOSPEL was preached to THEM just as it was to US ALSO" Heb 4:1
The Bible says that MOSES and Elijah stand WITH Christ - before the cross - in glorified form - in Matt 17.
The Bible says "IF they do not listen to MOSES neither will they listen though one rises from the dead" Luke 16
The Bible says "There is only ONE Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 AND it says "the GOSPEL was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:7
The Bible says that the LAW of God STILL condemns "ALL the WORLD" Rom 2:19-21 as being under sin and in need of salvation -- still ... to this very day.
The SAME Gospel that enables MOSES and Elijah to stand WITH Christ in Matt 17 - has that same power today - even after the cross it has not diminished.
I understand where you're coming from but let me offer this from my personal experience. In following the Decalogue, which is an example to us of the character of God, of His Love for us, I have, like David, come to love these Commandments for they show me the heart of God. I can delight in them because I can see that they are Just and Holy and Good. They are not a burden or curse to me because I seek to understand, honour and obey through the Holy Spirit. This was not always where I was at... at first, I tried to keep them because I was supposed to, and slowly, through faithfulness, God has taken me from that place to where I am now. I still have only a dim, ignorant view of God's character but I can now see the blessing that the Decalogue is and can worship God more fully because of it and He can impart this Character to me. Obeying God is not a physical thing we do, it's spiritual.
Then you don't believe that Jesus was tempted as we are, that He didn't overcome sin, that He didn't lived a sinless life? What example is that if he had different rules to live by? That's not what the Bible teaches...
I believe He has a complete, cohesive, continuous plan for our fallen race and it is our misunderstanding that separates it into 3 different dispensations. To me, God is Order and would not give such a piecemeal message for us... that seems like the confuser's work to me.
Then you don't believe that Jesus was tempted as we are, that He didn't overcome sin, that He didn't lived a sinless life? What example is that if he had different rules to live by? That's not what the Bibl
This is for new testament laws and old.
Romans chapter 9 verses 30-Romans chapter 10 verse 4
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. As it is written: See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame. Brothers my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are Zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own the did not submit to God's righteousness, Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
That stumbling stone was Christ... they didn't advance in their understanding of what He came to show them, therefore, they stumbled.Something harmed that post.
This is for new testament laws and old.
Romans chapter 9 verses 30-Romans chapter 10 verse 4
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. As it is written: See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame. Brothers my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are Zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own the did not submit to God's righteousness, Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
And because they tried to obey the law, the only thing we need to do is love, jesus showed his love by laying down his life for us, he also came to testify to the truth, and said all those on the side of truth listen to him, most people won't accept that the law has ended and now all we need to do is love.That stumbling stone was Christ... they didn't advance in their understanding of what He came to show them, therefore, they stumbled.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion...And because they tried to obey the law, the only thing we need to do is love, jesus showed his love by laying down his life for us, he also came to testify to the truth, and said all those on the side of truth listen to him, most people won't accept that the law has ended and now all we need to do is love.
2 Corinthians chapter 3
6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
The Greater Glory of the New Covenant
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!
Everyone's entitled to their opinion...
2Cor 3 is not an "opinion" it is a fact and you would rather believe your church than scripture, another fact. The fact is when I was SDA I too ignored many facts including 2Cor3 and all of Gal. 3.Everyone's entitled to their opinion...
The fact is when I was SDA I too ignored many facts including 2Cor3 and all of Gal. 3.
more accusations, where's the meat?Seems to me you are continuing the same pattern Bob...
under the pickle?more accusations, where's the meat?
I sometimes learn things from people I completely disagree from.I think that this is the problem that we all face here: we all have an opinion. But our opinion is not really relevant to Christ's teachings, our opinion may not be objective and it may actually keep us from embracing Christ. I think for this reason we need to hear opposition to our beliefs and weigh it against Jesus words and see if our beliefs embrace or fail to embrace the full revelation of Christ's words and then we must rework our beliefs until the whole picture and revelation of Christ is had. Some of the problems we face comes down to language and the misinterpretation of translators and that can be seen in opposing statements like "the law and the prophets were until John" and "don't think that I came to destroy the law" and once we see these apparent contradictions in Jesus words, then we must go back to the Greek and see exactly what the words were that were, translated into the English, in order to get clarity on what Jesus really meant. The poor interpretation of Matthew 5:17 has spawned a sect of people that have embraced the Old Covenant and failed to gain a proper understanding of the New. Yes, while this is my opinion, I am just trying to have it considered so that those here might work through their beliefs.
May God lead us to embrace the full revelation of Christ.
Are you talking about the verses I posted, I'm surprised you say the word of god is an opinion.Everyone's entitled to their opinion...
I think the problem is failure to reconcile and believe all the Scripture.I think that this is the problem that we all face here: we all have an opinion. But our opinion is not really relevant to Christ's teachings, our opinion may not be objective and it may actually keep us from embracing Christ. I think for this reason we need to hear opposition to our beliefs and weigh it against Jesus words and see if our beliefs embrace or fail to embrace the full revelation of Christ's words and then we must rework our beliefs until the whole picture and revelation of Christ is had. Some of the problems we face comes down to language and the misinterpretation of translators and that can be seen in opposing statements like "the law and the prophets were until John" and "don't think that I came to destroy the law" and once we see these apparent contradictions in Jesus words, then we must go back to the Greek and see exactly what the words were, that were translated into the English, in order to get clarity on what Jesus really meant. The poor translation of Matthew 5:17 has spawned a sect of people that have embraced the Old Covenant and failed to gain a proper understanding of the New. Yes, while this is my opinion, I am just trying to have it considered so that those here might work through their beliefs.
May God lead us to embrace the full revelation of Christ.
I think the problem is failure to reconcile and believe all the Scripture.
bugkiller
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