That Boat Don't Float!!

[Catherineanne]

"This is how you are to build it: The ark is to be 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high. [d] 16 Make a roof for it and finish [e] the ark to within 18 inches [f] of the top. Put a door in the side of the ark and make lower, middle and upper decks. "

There is no mention of a storm or wind or rough seas.

It just had to float.

It is beyond belief how far people are willing to distort reality in order to turn icing sugar into soap powder.

However, each to his own.

 

[SkyWriting]

hogging? sagging? mean anything? I know this is a cartoon, but still...

Would perfectly calm seas help with the Engineering problem?

If you had the task to build the boat, would it help if you ALSO
invented the conditions of the voyage? In cartoon land of course.
Think of it as a CAD/CAM problem with torsional and rigidity parameters
completely under your control. Sorry, for cartoon land that would be
CGI parameters.

 

[SkyWriting]

It is beyond belief how far people are willing to distort reality in order to turn icing sugar into soap powder.
However, each to his own.

"Reality" being the original storyline, thank you for that word of support.

Plus any related insights that may have shown up in other parts of the book.

He got up, rebuked the wind and said to the waves, "Quiet! Be still!" Then the wind died down and it was completely calm.

So it would SEEM that God can control the weather.
I think that weird idea goes way back and isn't even something I invented.

 

[SkyWriting]

I asked you if you understood what "hogging" and "sagging" meant. is the answer to that "no"?
... no, don't bother. .

Then you don't know either. Each has to do with waves or improper boyancy in hull design.
As my friend indicated....it actually wasn't a boat.

 

[SkyWriting]

Thats not a good enough reason for me to edit what i want to say.. if they dont like what i said and want to edit words then im not restating anything i will move on

I hear ya. I've left a few forums for the exact same reason.

 

[SkyWriting]

You are correct. When Jonah travelled to Ninevah, he actually went by submarine. The ancient term for this vessel was inaccurately translated as Whale.

"Big Fish" in most translations..

 

[SkyWriting]

What you are essentially saying is that because you and your coworkers fudge your data everyone else must be doing it.

Now consider that the Christian geologists who first determined that the earth's geological record could not be the result of a global flood had set out to prove that it was the result of a global flood. If they fudged their data the way you and the people you work with do they would not have been forced by the data to conclude that the earth's geology was not the result of a global flood.

And BTW I have lost significant potential income in some cases because the data I collected did not verify the hypothesis we set out to test so not everyone is as unethical as our coworkers seem to be. It fact I would say that most are not.

So you are essentially saying because you didn't fudge your data then no one else is doing it either.

 

[SkyWriting]

This is a common misperception. In fact I don't give a tinker's cuss where I go after I die. I don't care if it is eternity, and I don't care if it is a lake of fire, and I don't care if it is eternal oblivion. Whatever it is, there is not much point worrying about it.

The issue is, what if you don't mentally die. What if you are still aware of yourself as a person. Still able to think.

The the simple question, where are you going to spend your "time"?

 

[SkyWriting]

...was able to withstand a storm of 40 days

The Story of the Ark does not mention waves, or wind, or any storm.
It just needed to float. And should any waves come up...

He got up, rebuked the wind and said to the waves, “Quiet! Be still!” Then the wind died down and it was completely calm.

 

[USincognito]

While interesting, as is the discussion of the Chinese treasure fleets, I would put it on par with Woodmorappe's Feasibility book. When there's no evidence of the hyper-speciation that would have to result after the "kinds" were brought on the Ark. When there's no evidence of genetic bottlenecks 4,000 years ago that would have to result from populations being reduced to 2, 7 or 8. When all of the geological, archaeological and paleontological evidence screams the Flood didn't happen, I think discussions about the dimensions of the Ark are basically nit picking.

Researchers fudge numbers to fit what they are looking for.

A value and evidence free comment. Care to pony up some support for this assertion and show how it applies to what I wrote?

Sure. You could have checked first.
I must confess though, only 1/3 of researchers admit to fudging the facts.
Note that in 3 months, no one has disputed the 30% cheat/liars/frauds figure.

I'll ask again, do you have any evidence showing that the facts concerning a lack of hyperspeciation and genetic bottlenecks amongst all land animals 4,000 years ago were derived from "fudged numbers" or not? Do you have any evidence that all the facts from archaeology, paleontology and geology showing there was no flood 4,000 years ago were derived from "fudged numbers" or not?

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

The Story of the Ark does not mention waves, or wind, or any storm.
It just needed to float. And should any waves come up...

He got up, rebuked the wind and said to the waves, “Quiet! Be still!” Then the wind died down and it was completely calm.

According to Genesis

7:4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

7:12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

7:17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
7:18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that [were] under the whole heaven, were covered.
7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

To cover the mountains you need more than 29,000 feet of rain. That means it needed to rain about 725 feet per day or about 30 feet per hour or about 6 inches per minute. Unless you get a lot of water coming from the fountains of the great deep of course. And you are saying this all happened with no waves?

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

The Story of the Ark does not mention waves, or wind, or any storm.
It just needed to float. And should any waves come up...

Genesis 8:1 And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged;

 

[Catherineanne]

"Reality" being the original storyline, thank you for that word of support.

Plus any related insights that may have shown up in other parts of the book.

He got up, rebuked the wind and said to the waves, "Quiet! Be still!" Then the wind died down and it was completely calm.

So it would SEEM that God can control the weather.
I think that weird idea goes way back and isn't even something I invented.

Of course God can control the weather. He wouldn't be much of a God if he couldn't, would he?

However, the fact that the weather is under God's control is not evidence that the story of Noah is journalistic. Quite simply, it isn't. There is nothing in Scripture to warrant regarding Scripture as journalistic, or scientific, or historic. It contains all of these elements (inter alia), scattered around here and there, but they are NOT its primary purpose.

Anyone who wants to believe that the story of the flood is literal, is welcome to do so. That does not prevent the rest of us from regarding that as a barking mad proposition. But there is simply no point in either side measuring the ark, playing semantic games with 'boat' and 'barge' or suggesting that a fall of rain sufficient to cover the whole world to a depth of more than 20 feet above Everest is possible without any wind whatever. All of this is complete twaddle.

None of this is necessary. All that is necessary is an understanding of what mythology is, and what it is not.

 

[AV1611VET]

According to Genesis

To cover the mountains you need more than 29,000 feet of rain. That means it needed to rain about 725 feet per day or about 30 feet per hour or about 6 inches per minute. Unless you get a lot of water coming from the fountains of the great deep of course. And you are saying this all happened with no waves?

Let me ask you this, Frumious.

Remember sometime back when I said that where the Bible is silent on how some things happened, It really isn't silent, if we compare spiritual things with spiritual?

For instance, the Bible seems to be silent on how all those animals were fed, until we see how God handled a similar situation later with the widow of Zarephath?

Anyway -- as pertains your point -- let me ask you this:

In your opinion, did the Ark even get wet?

Judges 6:39 And Gideon said unto God, Let not thine anger be hot against me, and I will speak but this once: let me prove, I pray thee, but this once with the fleece; let it now be dry only upon the fleece, and upon all the ground let there be dew.
Judges 6:40 And God did so that night: for it was dry upon the fleece only, and there was dew on all the ground.

 

[Catherineanne]

The issue is, what if you don't mentally die. What if you are still aware of yourself as a person. Still able to think.

The the simple question, where are you going to spend your "time"?

People do not continue to think or have awareness after death. That is the whole point of being dead.

However, where my soul goes at that point is pretty well immaterial to me. I don't much care, because this decision is not mine to make.

If God wants me to spend eternity in hell, then so be it; I have spent much of my life in hell, so it holds no fears for me. And if he allows me to spend it with him, then fine. I really don't much mind.

My faith is not based on getting an eternal reward. That would be rather mercenary, don't you think?

To illustrate this, compare my relationship with my daughter. This is a relationship of mutual love and respect. If I thought for even one moment that my daughter only loves me because I will one day die and leave her a nice inheritance, what kind of daughter would she then be? What I have to give her when I die is completely irrelevant to who we are to one another. Nice if it happens (for her), but irrelevant.

It is the same with me and God. Who we are to one another is about love and relationship. It is not about what I get as my reward when I finally kick the bucket.

 

[Catherineanne]

The Story of the Ark does not mention waves, or wind, or any storm.
It just needed to float. And should any waves come up...

He got up, rebuked the wind and said to the waves, “Quiet! Be still!” Then the wind died down and it was completely calm.

You are making this up as you go along, aren't you?

I warn everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book; if anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Revelation 22v18ff

Good luck with that.

 

[AV1611VET]

However, where my soul goes at that point is pretty well immaterial to me. I don't much care, because this decision is not mine to make.

Then why did Jesus Christ die on the Cross?

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Let me ask you this, Frumious.

Remember sometime back when I said that where the Bible is silent on how some things happened, It really isn't silent, if we compare spiritual things with spiritual?

For instance, the Bible seems to be silent on how all those animals were fed, until we see how God handled a similar situation later with the widow of Zarephath?

Anyway -- as pertains your point -- let me ask you this:

In your opinion, did the Ark even get wet?

Judges 6:39 And Gideon said unto God, Let not thine anger be hot against me, and I will speak but this once: let me prove, I pray thee, but this once with the fleece; let it now be dry only upon the fleece, and upon all the ground let there be dew.
Judges 6:40 And God did so that night: for it was dry upon the fleece only, and there was dew on all the ground.

In my opinion the ark didn't exist.

 

[AV1611VET]

In my opinion the ark didn't exist.

Then NO is your answer?

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Then NO is your answer?

How could something that didn't exist get wet? On the other hand if the legend of Noah is based on some people escaping a large local flood in a boat, perhaps because they were already traveling by boat then the boat that gave rise to the ark legend definitely got wet.