Texas Pastor Tells Followers to Stock Supplies, Keep Guns Loaded Before Biden Inauguration

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

Faith isn't the problem.

Deception is the problem. And that has always happened, as even the Bible indicates, and always will.

We need to know the Word better than the guy preaching it to us, and use discernment.

If we know the word better than the guy preaching it to us we don't need to listen to it in the first place.

Not everyone has the luxury of being so knowledgeable about the scriptures and when you do know a lot, normal sermons often become boring.

The trick is to know enough to spot falsehood when it comes into the sermon, and gracious enough to ignore it when it is unimportant and a one-off.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

If we know the word better than the guy preaching it to us we don't need to listen to it in the first place.

Not everyone has the luxury of being so knowledgeable about the scriptures and when you do know a lot, normal sermons often become boring.

The trick is to know enough to spot falsehood when it comes into the sermon, and gracious enough to ignore it when it is unimportant and a one-off.

Yes, we do. "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God" (Romans 10:17). But we must also "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.(2 Tim 2:15) Both are important.

We are to grow from faith to faith and sharpen one another. No excuses (especially for those of us with the riches of multiple Bibles available and the internet...anyone can learn). If you seek, you will find.

I do agree with your final sentence. Use discernment.

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

Yes, we do. "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God" (Romans 10:17). But we must also "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.(2 Tim 2:15) Both are important.

We are to grow from faith to faith and sharpen one another. No excuses (especially for those of us with the riches of multiple Bibles available and the internet...anyone can learn). If you seek, you will find.

I do agree with your final sentence. Use discernment.

While I agree with your points, if the only source of 'hearing' the Word of God is the very preaching you are saying they should know better than the guy preaching it. Then they are on to a losing streak already.

Brand new Christians going in to that environment are not going to know more than the preacher, but if they survive the experience they might be wiser.

When I first became a Christian, I studied diligently because I thought I had a lot to catch up on, but a year later it was clear I knew a lot more than most of those around me. That stood me well when a false preacher did get a hold of our church a few years later. I couldn't always tell what was wrong, but I knew given time I would have been (and this was before the internet). In the end most people were taken in by his rhetoric and I had to find another church.

What I am saying is that not everyone either is ready to take on preaching such as this or even has the capacity to do so. Not all are teachers, and I thank God that I have had that calling, and can discern falsehood most of the time.

 

[LightLoveHope]

While I agree with your points, if the only source of 'hearing' the Word of God is the very preaching you are saying they should know better than the guy preaching it. Then they are on to a losing streak already.

Brand new Christians going in to that environment are not going to know more than the preacher, but if they survive the experience they might be wiser.

When I first became a Christian, I studied diligently because I thought I had a lot to catch up on, but a year later it was clear I knew a lot more than most of those around me. That stood me well when a false preacher did get a hold of our church a few years later. I couldn't always tell what was wrong, but I knew given time I would have been (and this was before the internet). In the end most people were taken in by his rhetoric and I had to find another church.

What I am saying is that not everyone either is ready to take on preaching such as this or even has the capacity to do so. Not all are teachers, and I thank God that I have had that calling, and can discern falsehood most of the time.

My son got involved with a bethel style church that emphasised words of knowledge, or rather words of random thoughts. It can get like fitting ones life around the words, as the words are general though spoken with conviction.

Some can be led astray because they are nice, until you start to suggest scripture say otherwise. On some minds they expect a pointed word each day, rather than a blessing and encouragement. So it's fireworks or no spirituality. I find the opposite, putting simple principles into action is much harder than fireworks.

The healing of the beggar at the gate was rare, which is why it stood out. Paul raised people from the dead because of an accident. This is not healing missions or displays to create faith. God bless you

 

[Dave L]

You are just being ridiculous! I'm saying that the apostles did not raise everyone from the dead, else it would be a bigger thing in the book of Acts and history for that matter. If you read Acts and see the things that happened to the Apostles that you are using as examples you will see that they are not immune from injury or even death. The miraculous is not some get out of jail card that can be used any time you want, else the apostles would still be among us.

You still have failed to explain how you can legitimately exclude the work of the Holy Spirit from your theology. Now we have to add how it is you have excluded all of the healings, prophecies, casting out of demons and walking on water from your definition of miracles.

Why did Luke call the book "The Acts of the Apostles" instead of "the Acts of the believers" if your position is true??

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

Why did Luke call the book "The Acts of the Apostles" instead of "the Acts of the believers" if your position is true??

Luke didn't call his letter "The Acts of the Apostles", that name was applied by the early church when compiling the the New Testament. In fact some older Bibles refer to it as "The Acts of the Holy Spirit". Most modern translations simply call it "Acts".

And I as I also pointed out, it is about the apostles and has very little to say about anyone else, so making a theology JUST based on this about believers is a mistake.... which is where Paul's letters come in (in particular 1 Corinthians) where it is clear that the Holy Spirit is the one giving the gifts not the Apostles. The Apostles were the original recipients, but if those in the first incident (Pentecost) and later (Cornelius), then it is clear that there is no distinction between Apostles and other believers in this regard... something backed up by Mark 16.

 

[Dave L]

Luke didn't call his letter "The Acts of the Apostles", that name was applied by the early church when compiling the the New Testament. In fact some older Bibles refer to it as "The Acts of the Holy Spirit". Most modern translations simply call it "Acts".

And I as I also pointed out, it is about the apostles and has very little to say about anyone else, so making a theology JUST based on this about believers is a mistake.... which is where Paul's letters come in (in particular 1 Corinthians) where it is clear that the Holy Spirit is the one giving the gifts not the Apostles. The Apostles were the original recipients, but if those in the first incident (Pentecost) and later (Cornelius), then it is clear that there is no distinction between Apostles and other believers in this regard... something backed up by Mark 16.

Prove your position with documented examples. How can people believe your claims about Christ when you obviously can't prove what you say about the rest? Which is very provable if it exists.

 

[Danthemailman]

Pro-gun Demonstration Set for Virginia Capital in Wake of Capitol Siege

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

Prove your position with documented examples. How can people believe your claims about Christ when you obviously can't prove what you say about the rest? Which is very provable if it exists.

You don't appear to have read my response, I assume that you have read all of Mark 16 at least.

 

[Dave L]

You don't appear to have read my response, I assume that you have read all of Mark 16 at least.

Why did Paul place his friends on Medicine if the gifts are for today?
“Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.” (2 Timothy 4:20) (KJV 1900)

“Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.” (1 Timothy 5:23) (KJV 1900)

“Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.” (Galatians 4:12–15) (KJV 1900)

(alternate translation of the above passage) “you know that previously I preached the gospel to you because of a physical illness. You did not despise or reject me though my physical condition was a trial for you. On the contrary, you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus Himself.” (Galatians 4:13–14)(HCSB)

“What happened to this sense of being blessed you had? For I testify to you that, if possible, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me.” (Galatians 4:15)(HCSB)

“For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.” (Philippians 2:26–27) (KJV 1900)

Paul left Trophimus in Miletus when he was sick (II Tim 4:20), and Epaphroditus was sick to the point of death (Phil 2:27). Timothy was encouraged to use wine for his stomach ailments (1 Tim 5:23). God never removed Paul’s thorn in the flesh (II Cor 12:1-10).

 

[parousia70]

Pro-gun Demonstration Set for Virginia Capital in Wake of Capitol Siege

What could go wrong?

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Prove your position with documented examples. How can people believe your claims about Christ when you obviously can't prove what you say about the rest? Which is very provable if it exists.

He is right that there is no distinction regarding the gifts between the original disciples (not just the apostles) who received the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 (assuming I am understanding the discussion here). The apostles were just first.

In Acts 1, we are told who is in the Upper Room, awaiting the Holy Spirit: 12Then they returned to Jerusalem from the Mount of Olives, which is near the city, a Sabbath day’s journey away.c 13When they arrived, they went to the upper room where they were staying: Peter and John, James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James son of Alphaeus, Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James. 14With one accord they all continued in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.

Acts 2: When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2Suddenly a sound like a mighty rushing wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3They saw tongues like flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them. 5Now there were dwellingb in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6And when this sound rang out, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking his own language.

The crowd is large and diverse and are there for the feast of Shavuot, and have gathered outside in the temple courts because they heard this sound : Astounded and amazed, they asked, “Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? 8How is it then that each of us hears them in his own native language? 9Parthians, Medes, and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,c 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome, 11both Jews and converts to Judaism; Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”

Why do we know the Holy Spirit coming upon people continues?:
Acts 2: 37 (Peter preaches)When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and asked Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39This promise belongs to you and your children and to all who are far off—to all whom the Lord our God will call to Himself.”

The Holy Spirit falling on us to empower us to be His witnesses is for all believers, not just the apostles or the early believers.

What do "believers" do? Mark 16

Mark 16: 14 Later, as they were eating, Jesus appeared to the Eleven and rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;d 18they will pick up snakes with their hands, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not harm them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will be made well.”

So, Jesus appears to Mary first, and then others see him, and finally the 11. And this mission is to be carried on by all after they receive the Holy Spirit.

Jesus sent the apostles out ("apostle" means sent, by the way - it is not a title) two by two (Mark 6:7), and then he sent 72 OTHER BELIEVERS out two by two to continue exactly the same work.

Luke 10: After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them on ahead of him, two by two, into every town and place where he himself was about to go.

This work was not ever intended and is not limited to just the original apostles.

And why are people battling illness mentioned in scripture? Because we are human and sometimes have to fight battles. Some are faster than others. Some are more laden with many problems than others. That doesn't mean it doesn't come to pass, but only that it isn't always instantaneous. Don't you remember the apostles asking Jesus directly, "Why couldn't we cast it out?" And He replied that it was because of their little faith.

They were human too.

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

Why did Paul place his friends on Medicine if the gifts are for today?

I don't know if you are aware of how confused your arguments are, but look back and you will see that on the one hand you are demanding unrealistic evidence that miracles continued after the end of the Apostolic period and then when such evidence is presented you proclaim that I am adding to the Bible. All the while you pointedly ignore passages that disagree with your theology ('apart from', 'beyond' etc. plus anything not in Acts).

You have already jumped to extremes (Why hasn't COVID been healed?) where none is warranted.

That not everyone is raised from the dead, nor everyone healed is perfectly scriptural. Even Jesus didn't heal everyone (Nazareth for example) and he certainly didn't raise everyone from the dead.

But it is a far cry from not doing it in some circumstances to not doing it in ANY circumstance. Just as it is to jump from doing it in some circumstances to doing it in every circumstance.

The gifts of the Holy Spirit are his to dole out (1 Co 12) and for us to use according to HIS will, not ours. The apostles clearly understood that and common sense tells us that not everyone was healed else Christianity would have made an even bigger impact than it did, including on the history books.

The healings and other miracles weren't everyday experiences but they did happen and that would be true today also. It is unrealistic and unbiblical to demand that if healing happens today then it should happen every time.

Furthermore your theology seems to deny God any role in the present day except as an observer and a powerless one at that. If the God of the Bible is present then one should expect all sorts of miraculous things to happen, if not the ones we want. The life of the believer should follow the example of the early believers and see the miraculous on an ad-hoc basis as God wills it.

You also seem to have majored on healing while ignoring the miraculous in general. You say that it all ended with the Apostolic age, but Mark 16 clearly indicates that there was expectation of miraculous gifts after that time (though it doesn't state that they took place) and if you step through history you will see numerous examples of miracles in every century including this one (see Craig Keener's 2 volumes on Miracles for example). And while we might dismiss many of these as hagiography or bias, there are enough cases to warrant that some of them probably contain truth, particularly where the Kingdom of God is advanced as a result.

If the things Jesus told his disciples to do were only meant for the apostles, he did a terrible job of communicating that and we have Gospels that are no longer good news but just works of history and dubious ones at that.

On the other hand if Jesus' instructions were for all disciples then we should glory in the possibilities that it presents and seeks to instruct others in the same way. God is good. Jesus is Lord and the Holy Spirit is with us.

 

[seeking.IAM]

How did this thread go from talking about a Texas pastor to this? I'm so confused.

 

[Danthemailman]

What could go wrong?

With emotions running really high things could go south fast, but I hope and pray that’s not the case.

 

[Danthemailman]

How did this thread go from talking about a Texas pastor to this? I'm so confused.

It happens. lol

 

[seeking.IAM]

How did this thread go from talking about a Texas pastor to this? I'm so confused.

It happens. lol

Massive thread drift. Sometimes its time to start a new thread on the topic you really want to talk about.

 

[Dave L]

I don't know if you are aware of how confused your arguments are, but look back and you will see that on the one hand you are demanding unrealistic evidence that miracles continued after the end of the Apostolic period and then when such evidence is presented you proclaim that I am adding to the Bible. All the while you pointedly ignore passages that disagree with your theology ('apart from', 'beyond' etc. plus anything not in Acts).

You have already jumped to extremes (Why hasn't COVID been healed?) where none is warranted.

That not everyone is raised from the dead, nor everyone healed is perfectly scriptural. Even Jesus didn't heal everyone (Nazareth for example) and he certainly didn't raise everyone from the dead.

But it is a far cry from not doing it in some circumstances to not doing it in ANY circumstance. Just as it is to jump from doing it in some circumstances to doing it in every circumstance.

The gifts of the Holy Spirit are his to dole out (1 Co 12) and for us to use according to HIS will, not ours. The apostles clearly understood that and common sense tells us that not everyone was healed else Christianity would have made an even bigger impact than it did, including on the history books.

The healings and other miracles weren't everyday experiences but they did happen and that would be true today also. It is unrealistic and unbiblical to demand that if healing happens today then it should happen every time.

Furthermore your theology seems to deny God any role in the present day except as an observer and a powerless one at that. If the God of the Bible is present then one should expect all sorts of miraculous things to happen, if not the ones we want. The life of the believer should follow the example of the early believers and see the miraculous on an ad-hoc basis as God wills it.

You also seem to have majored on healing while ignoring the miraculous in general. You say that it all ended with the Apostolic age, but Mark 16 clearly indicates that there was expectation of miraculous gifts after that time (though it doesn't state that they took place) and if you step through history you will see numerous examples of miracles in every century including this one (see Craig Keener's 2 volumes on Miracles for example). And while we might dismiss many of these as hagiography or bias, there are enough cases to warrant that some of them probably contain truth, particularly where the Kingdom of God is advanced as a result.

If the things Jesus told his disciples to do were only meant for the apostles, he did a terrible job of communicating that and we have Gospels that are no longer good news but just works of history and dubious ones at that.

On the other hand if Jesus' instructions were for all disciples then we should glory in the possibilities that it presents and seeks to instruct others in the same way. God is good. Jesus is Lord and the Holy Spirit is with us.

If you can prove Acts level miracles today, you would have done it by now. Let's give it up.

 

[Dave L]

He is right that there is no distinction regarding the gifts between the original disciples (not just the apostles) who received the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 (assuming I am understanding the discussion here). The apostles were just first.

In Acts 1, we are told who is in the Upper Room, awaiting the Holy Spirit: 12Then they returned to Jerusalem from the Mount of Olives, which is near the city, a Sabbath day’s journey away.c 13When they arrived, they went to the upper room where they were staying: Peter and John, James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James son of Alphaeus, Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James. 14With one accord they all continued in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.

Acts 2: When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2Suddenly a sound like a mighty rushing wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3They saw tongues like flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them. 5Now there were dwellingb in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6And when this sound rang out, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking his own language.

The crowd is large and diverse and are there for the feast of Shavuot, and have gathered outside in the temple courts because they heard this sound : Astounded and amazed, they asked, “Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? 8How is it then that each of us hears them in his own native language? 9Parthians, Medes, and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,c 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome, 11both Jews and converts to Judaism; Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”

Why do we know the Holy Spirit coming upon people continues?:
Acts 2: 37 (Peter preaches)When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and asked Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39This promise belongs to you and your children and to all who are far off—to all whom the Lord our God will call to Himself.”

The Holy Spirit falling on us to empower us to be His witnesses is for all believers, not just the apostles or the early believers.

What do "believers" do? Mark 16

Mark 16: 14 Later, as they were eating, Jesus appeared to the Eleven and rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;d 18they will pick up snakes with their hands, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not harm them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will be made well.”

So, Jesus appears to Mary first, and then others see him, and finally the 11. And this mission is to be carried on by all after they receive the Holy Spirit.

Jesus sent the apostles out ("apostle" means sent, by the way - it is not a title) two by two (Mark 6:7), and then he sent 72 OTHER BELIEVERS out two by two to continue exactly the same work.

Luke 10: After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them on ahead of him, two by two, into every town and place where he himself was about to go.

This work was not ever intended and is not limited to just the original apostles.

And why are people battling illness mentioned in scripture? Because we are human and sometimes have to fight battles. Some are faster than others. Some are more laden with many problems than others. That doesn't mean it doesn't come to pass, but only that it isn't always instantaneous. Don't you remember the apostles asking Jesus directly, "Why couldn't we cast it out?" And He replied that it was because of their little faith.

They were human too.

The gifts proved the Apostles were really Apostles. Are you suggesting all were Apostles?

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

The gifts proved the Apostles were really Apostles. Are you suggesting all were Apostles?

No, the gifts of the Spirit did NOT merely prove the Apostles were the Apostles. They proved that JESUS was GOD, and that He was compassionate. He then gave His mission to share God's compassion to the 12, and then the 72, and then so on and so forth, as Acts makes very plain. That has not changed today.

Nowhere in scripture do the gifts pass away until the whole thing wraps up and they aren't needed anymore because we are with Jesus. Until you know fully, even as you are fully known (1 Cor 13), we are still in the Church age that Jesus began.

Apostle is not a title. It only means "Sent". So yes, in a sense, though we are not the original Apostles who walked with Jesus on this earth, all those who do His work are apostles, in that they are sent to reconcile the world to Jesus through the Great Commission.