Testing Spirits

[nolidad]

Nonsense.

(CLV) Ga 3:28
in Whom there is not Jew nor yet Greek, there is not slave nor yet free, there is not male and female, for you all are one in Christ Jesus.

The covenant is with Israel.

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

Yahshua wasn't commissioned for the Jew nor the gentile. He was commissioned only for Israel.

Are you that bereft of knowledge???? Jews are part of Israel! They are descendants. of the twelve sons of Jacob. and as Hebrews is quoting from Jer. 31 which prophesied the New Covenant let us look:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jesus did not recognize the division of Israel into Israel and Judah! Israel is all 12 tribes.

Not according to the very definition of the word:

What is righteousness?

Definition of righteous

1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
Definition of RIGHTEOUS


1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Well then you are unpleasing to teh God of Israel, for He does not accept our good works as a basis for our righteousness!

2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

If you are saved, then Christ is your righteousness- not your deeds. If you are counting on your deeds to be righteous- you are lost according to the SCriptures, for there is none righteous!

 

[Minister Monardo]

Are you that bereft of knowledge???? Jews are part of Israel! They are descendants. of the twelve sons of Jacob. and as Hebrews is quoting from Jer. 31 which prophesied the New Covenant let us look:

Romans 9:
6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,
7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”
8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.

At least you had the opportunity to use the word 'bereft'.

 

[nolidad]

Romans 9:
6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,
7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”
8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.

At least you had the opportunity to use the word 'bereft'.

We are speaking of teh distinctions between physical Israel which is comprised of all children of Abraham I saac and Jacob (the children of promise to Abraham) and spiritual Israel which Paul called the Israel of God! These are the righteous Israelis of all generations!

 

[lsume]

1 Corinthians 12:3. Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

As Christ has Revealed some of the big plan to me, it’s so beyond anything that a man could figure out that it’s beautiful. I don’t claim to be able to hold onto what is clear in The Holy Spirit, only to have experienced Truth that way is The Only Way.

 

[HARK!]

circumcision

That's a weird answer.

What does circumcision have to do with YHWH having more to say about abstaining from food?

 

[Monksailor]

HOW SHOULD WE TEST THE SPIRITS?:

(MARK DRISCOLL)

TESTING THE SPIRITS:

MACARTHUR)

 

[HARK!]

Doctrine are core beliefs held. For example, we, who hold the doctrine of Christ, believe in the death and ressurection of Christ - bodily, we believe that all scriptures are without error, we believe in salvation through the gospel of Christ who is himself the Son of God and divine, how God is just to justify us, the ungodly through the work of Christ, etc, etc. This is just part of the doctrine of Christ. So doctrine is a set of core beliefs which one ought to hold to be a christian, ie doctrines relating to christians. A person that does not believe these things can safely be said to be a non christian or an unbeliever.

Your definition doesn't quite fit a mainstream definition.

doc·trine | \ ˈdäk-trən
\
Definition of doctrine
1a : a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : dogma Catholic doctrine
b : a statement of fundamental government policy especially in international relations the Truman Doctrine
c law : a principle of law established through past decisions
d : a military principle or set of strategies
e : something that is taught
2 archaic : teaching, instruction

1a seems to fit your understanding best. Personally I wouldn't trust in dogma to test spirits. Personally, I believe that some dogma comes from the wrong spirits.

 

[HARK!]

Fullness of the Gentiles said: ↑

On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (Matthew 22:36-40)

No other laws: No dietary laws, no law requiring keeping of sabbath days, new moons or festivals, no law requiring circumcision of the flesh,

This verse doesn't say that the law and the prophets are demolished by these two laws.

If it did; Yahshua would have contradicted himself.


"You should not infer that I came to demolish the law or the prophets. I came not to demolish, but to fulfill.

By the way, both of those laws come straight from the Torah.



(CLV) Mt 22:36
"Teacher, what is the great precept in the law?"

(CLV) Mt 22:37
Now He averred to him, "You shall be loving the Lord your God with your whole heart, and with your whole soul, and with your whole comprehension.

(CLV) Mt 22:38
This is the great and foremost precept.

(CLV) Mt 22:39
Yet the second is like it: `You shall be loving your associate as yourself.'

(CLV) Mt 22:40
On these two precepts is hanging the whole law and the prophets."

(CLV) Dt 6:5
So you will love YHWH your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your intensity.

(CLV) Lv 19:18
You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love your associate as yourself: I am YHWH.

 

[HARK!]

What does that have to do with dietary laws

Are you asserting that a restriction on drunkenness is not a dietary restriction?

 

[HARK!]

1. Moral Law
2. Ceremonial Law for which a temple is needed.

etc

You're just ducking the question.

How can I be ducking a question that wasn't even asked of me?

So a temple is needed for a ceremonial washing? Have you told the Baptists? I think that they might disagree. John would be on their side.

 

[HARK!]

The standard is in the bible, a good place to start is Galatians, the fruit of the spirit is ..

There are other passages related to determining whether the fruit is good or not, keep this in mind when reading the new testament.

We seem to keep coming back to scripture.

You initially said that we can test a message only by its' fruit; but in the very next sentence you seemed to indicate that we test the fruit with scripture. Now you state the standard is in the Bible.

we can only test a message by its fruit. The scripture indicates what the fruit is of a Godly messenger and also of a False one.

The Torah is scripture. As a matter of fact, when the NT was being written; and it referred to scripture; the TaNaK was the only known scripture at that time.

So when a spirit tells me to ignore scripture; it would seem that you are telling me that the ultimate test of that message, is scripture itself. If so, that would mean that message fails on its' face.

Am I understanding you correctly?

 

[HARK!]

Like a 2nd circumcision or a 2nd telling of the week of creation (a more detailed truth), David brings up the ark a second time, but in the first telling, which conforms to a pattern based on what gender represents to the soul, David is the one who offers the sacrifices ( which is like a woven pattern in scripture).

At the behest of a prophet David offers a sacrifice to stay the plague which in form is God's judgment upon the sin of Israel (inclusive of David), in which he uses Satan to that end, which of course is a 2nd telling ... a pattern based on the scenario found in a garden.

Can you provide the verses to support this?

 

[HARK!]

The Holy Spirit guides us in all truth. We must walk in the Holy Spirit daily in order to discern when deception comes our way. We are re-born and the Holy Spirit lives in us. He changed the inner man so that instinctively we work in unison with Him. This is what a Christian is. If one falls into deception, then they have "quench" the Holy Spirit. Many are deceived for a short season and come out of it through the power of the Holy Spirit. Some however, ignore the urging of the Spirit and remain in the lust of the flesh.

So you're saying that we use our instincts to test a, would be, deceptive spirit; but when our instincts might fail us; we rely on a spirit to free us of the deception of our instincts?

This seems like circular reasoning to me.

 

[HARK!]

The key is living in Christ. As you know, there is only one way for that to happen. You must be born again.

That really didn't answer the question; but here is what Peter says concerning what you brought forth:

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

So if you are correct; it would seem that if a spirit tells us it's OK to ignore YHWH's Torah; and we are born again by YHWH's word, which includes YHWH's Torah; we will know if that spirit is lying?

 

[visionary]

1. Matt 22 does not say "all scripture is deleted by these two commandments"
2. The Jews actually agree with Christ that Deut 6;5 and Lev 19:18 as quoted by Christ form the unassailable foundation of all scripture - all the "Law AND the prophets".
3. Jesus quotes More than those two in Mark 7 - as binding on mankind
4. Jesus quotes MORE than those two in Matthew 19 -- as binding on mankind.

Matt 19
if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; EX 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

The same list that Paul points out in Romans 13

I have often wondered if that omission was deliberate, because God used it once to test His people to see if they are obedient or not.

“God said to Moses: ‘See here, I will rain down for them food from heaven, and the people will go out and collect a daily portion every day. Thus I will test them, whether they will follow My law or not'” (Exodus 16:5).

God knowing beginning to the end, knowing that while the world gave nods of acknowledgement of the wisdom of the other nine in one form or fashion, there is a rebellion on one that is so pervasive that its replacement is implemented without a command from God directing people regarding this foundational change to God's kingdom. Amazing it is accepted as gospel and God's directive is brushed aside as not applicable. Yet Revelation clearly, with a loud commanding voice cries out and directs the listeners, to the pointed reason of application still being valid.

Revelation 14:7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Even more incredible is the statement that it is a key issue in the courts of Heaven.

 

[Scott Husted]

Can you provide the verses to support this?

For me that would be like quoting the whole Bible; but would it actually really matter ...

 

[HARK!]

1 Corinthians 12:3. Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

Let's break down the bolded part of this verse into terms that might help you and me communicate more accurately.

I say this to you personally; because I believe you will understand what I mean.

"No one can say that Yahshua is Master, except by the Ruach Ha'Kodesh."

What does this really mean? I think it means that no one can honestly say that Yahshua rules their life without the indwelling of the Ruach Ha'Kosesh.

Would you agree?

If so, do you believe that someone could lie, and say that Yahshua rules their life; while in fact they are serving another master?

 

[DamianWarS]

That's a weird answer.

What does circumcision have to do with YHWH having more to say about abstaining from food?

You asked for an example but failed to asked for a specific example about abstaining from food. So I gave you an example regarding the point (which is what we are discussing).

Circumcision is the example I gave you and I'm sorry if doesn't follow your train of thought but I'm really not interested in this back and forth thing so can I request that we stay at circumcision as it is a valid point to the OP and unspecific question at hand. If you want it more specific we may discuss the hypothetical of a spirit saying "don't physically cut off the foreskin of your child" and now how can this be tested?

 

[Blade]

Hey Hark.. a few years ago my mom died..went home. Not long after that I get this dream and its my mom? So I said to her "ok if your my mom say we are washed in the blood of Jesus" I mumbled something and vanished.

And yes.. no demon no fallen angel can say Jesus/Yeshua came in the flesh died on the cross was buried. Rose the 3rd day and is the only way to the Father.

And also for me.. He always confirms it by His word. Example. I use to go visit this elder man in a home. All he could do was moan. Oh but he LOVED the lord. So I would go visit and read the word or have it played for him. One day reading praying. I said "lord you gave me this burden for him. So I have a right to know why he is not being healed." And He said "remember when Daniel prayed?"

I have to stop there.. have to. Another thing ..those four word. Just exploded. So much was said by those four words.. it was wonderful. Anyway I said "ok if this really you where is that written?" He said "Daniel 10 :9-12" What makes this so special to me is at that time I had never read Daniel or the OT. Satan had such a hedge around him that a simple prayer would not do it.

For me.. if its God He will always confirm it by His word. Even once when He showed me something. Right at the end He said "I am the vine you are the branches". That is written. So for me.. He will give me the verse.. the Chapter what ever. For me this is how He always does it.

 

[BobRyan]

can I request that we stay at circumcision as it is a valid point to the OP and unspecific question at hand.

So this is about "testing the spirits"?