Testing Spirits

[GPendu]

How do you define doctrine?

Doctrine are core beliefs held. For example, we, who hold the doctrine of Christ, believe in the death and ressurection of Christ - bodily, we believe that all scriptures are without error, we believe in salvation through the gospel of Christ who is himself the Son of God and divine, how God is just to justify us, the ungodly through the work of Christ, etc, etc. This is just part of the doctrine of Christ. So doctrine is a set of core beliefs which one ought to hold to be a christian, ie doctrines relating to christians. A person that does not believe these things can safely be said to be a non christian or an unbeliever.

 

[visionary]

I eat bacon cuz I'm not under the law

Not under whose law?

 

[Zao is life]

Thank you for coming to this thread with some sound wisdom.

There will always be those who think they will even though Jesus died and rose again because we didn't and can't.

 

[Zao is life]

Fullness of the Gentiles said: ↑

On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (Matthew 22:36-40)

No other laws: No dietary laws, no law requiring keeping of sabbath days, new moons or festivals, no law requiring circumcision of the flesh,

False.

(CLV) 1Co 6:9
Or are you not aware that the unjust shall not be enjoying the allotment of God's kingdom? Be not deceived. Neither paramours, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor catamites, nor sodomites,

(CLV) 1Co 6:10
nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards; not revilers, not extortioners shall be enjoying the allotment of God's kingdom.

What does that have to do with dietary laws, sabbath laws, new moons, festivals, and circumcision of the flesh?

 

[Zao is life]

Categories? Do you mean like the ones for men, the ones for women, and the ones for priests?

1. Moral Law
2. Ceremonial Law for which a temple is needed.

etc

You're just ducking the question.

 

[Zao is life]

They would have to include the ones where "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 is the 5th commandment ... in that unit of Law.. (the TEN)

In fact "all ten" would have to be included for that to work out - as apparently the scholars in almost all denominations - admit..

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm ALL ten of the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

So, aside from the 10 you mentioned above, which part of Torah does God write on the hearts of those who believe in Jesus? Dietary laws? Sabbath laws (including sabbath year, Jubilee year, special sabbaths linked to the feast days, etc)? Keeping of the Feasts? Stoning women caught in adultery?

Please define what you mean by Torah, because until now you've been picking and choosing some and excluding others.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

So by taking the steering wheel, are you suggesting that we shouldn't be led by the spirit?

By what standard do we judge the fruit?

Steering wheel was a joke, tone is lost in typed messages.

The standard is in the bible, a good place to start is Galatians, the fruit of the spirit is ..

There are other passages related to determining whether the fruit is good or not, keep this in mind when reading the new testament.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I don't recall this verse. Can you share it with us?

The verse I recalled was actually in Acts 16:16 and onwards.

 

[BobRyan]

Which commandments? Can you list for us the commandments you believe God puts in the hearts of those who believe in Jesus, under their categories?

They would have to include the ones where "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 is the 5th commandment ... in that unit of Law.. (the TEN)

In fact "all ten" would have to be included for that to work out - as apparently the scholars in almost all denominations - admit..

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm ALL ten of the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

So, aside from the 10 you mentioned above, which part of Torah does God write on the hearts of those who believe in Jesus? Dietary laws? Sabbath laws (including sabbath year, Jubilee year, special sabbaths linked to the feast days, etc)? Keeping of the Feasts? Stoning women caught in adultery?

Please define what you mean by Torah, because until now you've been picking and choosing some and excluding others.

A. You write as if we all "easily get" that the TEN are included and now we need to know about "more"... would that "that" were true.

B. In the list above - we see that even the sunday-groups freely admit that civil laws only applied during the theocracy -- so again another "easy" part that both sides admit to.

C. In the list above - we see that even the sunday-groups freely admit that ceremonial laws based on animal sacrifice and offerings end at the cross .. (as Hebrews 10:4-12 points out) -- so again another "easy" part that both sides admit to.

Still that leaves other areas as you point out... would really be nice to see that everyone finally bot beyond the a,b,c's - and we are now down to that

 

[BobRyan]

Fullness of the Gentiles said: ↑
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (Matthew 22:36-40)
No other laws:

1. Matt 22 does not say "all scripture is deleted by these two commandments"
2. The Jews actually agree with Christ that Deut 6;5 and Lev 19:18 as quoted by Christ form the unassailable foundation of all scripture - all the "Law AND the prophets".
3. Jesus quotes More than those two in Mark 7 - as binding on mankind
4. Jesus quotes MORE than those two in Matthew 19 -- as binding on mankind.

Matt 19
if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; EX 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

The same list that Paul points out in Romans 13

 

[Scott Husted]

How so?

Like a 2nd circumcision or a 2nd telling of the week of creation (a more detailed truth), David brings up the ark a second time, but in the first telling, which conforms to a pattern based on what gender represents to the soul, David is the one who offers the sacrifices ( which is like a woven pattern in scripture).

At the behest of a prophet David offers a sacrifice to stay the plague which in form is God's judgment upon the sin of Israel (inclusive of David), in which he uses Satan to that end, which of course is a 2nd telling ... a pattern based on the scenario found in a garden.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

So our instincts won't protect us from being deceived by men; but they will protect us from being deceived by spirits?

The Holy Spirit guides us in all truth. We must walk in the Holy Spirit daily in order to discern when deception comes our way. We are re-born and the Holy Spirit lives in us. He changed the inner man so that instinctively we work in unison with Him. This is what a Christian is. If one falls into deception, then they have "quench" the Holy Spirit. Many are deceived for a short season and come out of it through the power of the Holy Spirit. Some however, ignore the urging of the Spirit and remain in the lust of the flesh.

 

[lsume]

Is this to say that if the spirit is truthful on this point; that it cannot lie?

The key is living in Christ. As you know, there is only one way for that to happen. You must be born again.

 

[Minister Monardo]

The key is living in Christ. As you know, there is only one way for that to happen. You must be born again.

1 Corinthians 12:3. Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Minister Monardo]

The verse I recalled was actually in Acts 16:16 and onwards.

A perfect example!
Acts 16:
16 Now it happened as we went to prayer that a certain slave girl possessed with a spirit of divination met us, who brought her masters much profit by fortune-telling.
She is a slave seeking redemption!
17 This girl followed Paul and us, and cried out, saying, These men are the servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to us the way of salvation.
Not wrong, but where is the mention of Jesus Christ?
18 And this she did for many days.
Paul and Silas are longsuffering, but then casts the spirit out swiftly.
But Paul, greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out that very hour.
19 But when her masters saw that their hope of profit was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace to the authorities.
And the nations rage.

 

[Minister Monardo]

Sweet! Right on time. I used that one in my response.

Here's another:

(CLV) Dt 6:25
So it shall come to be righteousness for us when we observe to do all this instruction before Yahweh our Elohim, just as He had enjoined on us.

Romans 10:
5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, The man who does those things shall live by them.
Paul uses Leviticus 18:5 to clarify this righteousness....
6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way....
Now he uses Devarim 30:11-14 (this book of the Law) to teach on faith!

Matthew 5:18. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
1 Timothy 1:8. But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully..
"ALL SCRIPTURE IS PROFITABLE".
2 Thessalonians 2:10. And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

 

[Minister Monardo]

It can be; but it could also be a fast from food and water. It could also be say, a lettuce fast; where one eats nothing but lettuce, to cleanse.

Zechariah 8:
16 These are the things you shall do:
Speak each man the truth to his neighbor;
Give judgment in your gates for truth, justice, and peace;
17 Let none of you think evil in your heart against your neighbor;
And do not love a false oath.
For all these are things that I hate,
Says the Lord.
18 Then the word of the Lord of hosts came to me, saying,
19 hus says the Lord of hosts:
The fast of the fourth month,
The fast of the fifth,
The fast of the seventh,
And the fast of the tenth,
Shall be joy and gladness and cheerful feasts
For the house of Judah.
Therefore love truth and peace.

Sounds a lot like the Gospel to me!

 

[BobRyan]

A perfect example!
Acts 16:
16 Now it happened as we went to prayer that a certain slave girl possessed with a spirit of divination met us, who brought her masters much profit by fortune-telling.
She is a slave seeking redemption!
17 This girl followed Paul and us, and cried out, saying, These men are the servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to us the way of salvation.
Not wrong, but where is the mention of Jesus Christ?
18 And this she did for many days.
Paul and Silas are longsuffering, but them casts the spirit out swiftly.
But Paul, greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out that very hour.
19 But when her masters saw that their hope of profit was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace to the authorities.
And the nations rage.

the possessed girl does not actually say anything wrong. The problem is that she is already known as the possessed with demons and just as demons were happy to proclaim Jesus as the Son of God - and Christ commanded silence of them - so also with Paul and the demon possessed. The demons wanted to make it look like the Gospel was in league with demons.

 

[Minister Monardo]

the possessed girl does not actually say anything wrong.

As I noted in the post.

The problem is that she is already known as the possessed with demons

No, the text says that she had a spirit of divination. She would not have been considered demon possessed, on the contrary, she would have been wrongly believed to speak for God. 'divine-ation'.
Which is why she was a source of income for a masters, being sought out. Not to disagree, she had an unclean spirit, but speaking to how she was perceived by others.

just as demons were happy to proclaim Jesus as the Son of God -

The demons and unclean spirits in the Gospel were addressing the Lord directly. He commanded their silence, to show that they were NOT in league with the Gospel, as you noted.

Matthew 12:37. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.

As you noted, her words were not wrong, but they fail the test.
After tolerating her presence for several days, Paul casts her out as not being the Spirit of God.
Your post is very insightful.

1 John 4:
1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God;
because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,
3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

 

[BobRyan]

No, the text says that she had a spirit of divination. She would not have been considered demon possessed, on the contrary, she would have been wrongly believed to speak for God. 'divine-ation'.

It is a greek town and greek culture - she was demon possessed as we both agree -- and they considered her to be like the oracle at Delphi - working with their false gods. (which of course they did not call "false gods")

The demons had the same agenda - making it look like Christianity was part of that system.