Testing Spirits

[Pavel Mosko]

But I have a feeling this thread is about keeping the letter of the law.

Yep. I came close to posting a thread on a different board concerning how early Christians interpreted the Bible in light of the Judiazers and the Ebionites. The notion that strict observance of the Law was not necessary for salvation and even a hindrance of the Gospel was a message that was not just seen in the Pauline epistles, but later with the Apostolic Fathers and Church Fathers as well.

 

[YeshuaFan]

When a spirit comes, and tells me that it's OK to ignore YHWH's perfect Torah; how do I test that spirit?

Trust in Jesus as Yahweh, and live by the Holy Spirit!

 

[Michael Garrett Andrews]

Test the spirits:

The only Law that God writes on the heart (Jeremiah 31:33-34) of the one who believes in Jesus is:

Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him,

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (Matthew 22:36-40)

No other laws: No dietary laws, no law requiring keeping of sabbath days, new moons or festivals, no law requiring circumcision of the flesh,

"For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." (Romans 13:9-10)

Therefore we are told, "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law." (Romans 13:8)

The Law is a shadow of the excellence of God, teaching us what sin is (including moral sin) and teaching us to come to Christ.

Test the spirits when you are told anything else.

 

[Michael Garrett Andrews]

Thank you for coming to this thread with some sound wisdom.

 

[1213]

When a spirit comes, and tells me that it's OK to ignore YHWH's perfect Torah; how do I test that spirit?

Ask why it is ok.

And then maybe you could say:

If you love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:15

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Doctrine include what one believes and confess and the fruit which include character.
Character alone is not enough for you end up making unrighteous judgement.

Why was that " this one demon possessed person in the gospels preaching a gospel about Jesus being the way to salvation...", silenced?

I think it's a package deal. People are born again, and the fruit of the Holy Spirit is automatically produced as we trust Jesus in our daily walk.

The passage I was remembering was in acts 16:16 and onward. The demon possessed girl was silenced because the demon was cast out.

So in the same way, if people are acting in a way that is demonic, but also quoting scripture - they must be ignored.

 

[HARK!]

The spirit can be non-religious, so this is not criteria to say if the spirit is not ok.

This is what John says:

(CLV) 1Jn 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see if they are of God, for many false prophets have come out into the world.

(CLV) 1Jn 4:2
In this you |know the spirit of God: every spirit which is avowing Jesus Christ, having come in flesh, is of God,

Was John mistaken?

 

[HARK!]

So first you need to get a steering wheel and stick it in the spirit's forehead and take it for a test drive. ...

So since we can't do anything that practical, we can only test a message by its fruit. The scripture indicates what the fruit is of a Godly messenger and also of a False one. I'd recommend to do that even when being taught to do things written.

As we learned through the temptations of Christ in the wilderness, even the devil can quote scripture - and as we learned through Peter - any of us can be a chip off the old block one sentence and "the devil" the next.

So always good to test anything claiming to be a messenger of God.

So by taking the steering wheel, are you suggesting that we shouldn't be led by the spirit?

By what standard do we judge the fruit?

 

[HARK!]

Spirits are tested by DOCTRINE. It is Doctrine that sets apart the Spirit of Christ and the spirit of the devil. Any one that does not confess the doctrine of Christ is not of Christ.

How do you define doctrine?

 

[HARK!]

This doesn't always work. I recall this one demon possessed person in the gospels preaching a gospel about Jesus being the way to salvation who was then silenced.

I don't recall this verse. Can you share it with us?

 

[eleos1954]

When a spirit comes, and tells me that it's OK to ignore YHWH's perfect Torah; how do I test that spirit?

If that were to happen ... Gods word is the test ... and certainly we are not to ignore Gods word ... oh duh?

 

[HARK!]

Whenever I have asked a spirit to confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh, the response has always been silence. The testing of spirits that John prescribes has this effect, to silence them.

Interesting.

 

[HARK!]

[2] Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Is this to say that if the spirit is truthful on this point; that it cannot lie?

 

[HARK!]

Read 2 Corinthians 3:7-18 and maybe reconsider what spirits your listening to

“ 2 Corinthians 3:7. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:8. How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?9. For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.10. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.11. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.12. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:13. And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:14. But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.15. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.16. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.17. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.18. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”

and Galatians 3 as well

Galatians 3:1. O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?2. This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?3. Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?4. Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.5. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?6. Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.7. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.8. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.9. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.10. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.11. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.12. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.13. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:14. That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”

I've read both of those letters, very carefully dissecting them. As it is written; Paul can sometimes be difficult to understand. However, Yahshua is very clear.

If there arises what seems to be a discrepancy between what Paul says, and what Yahshua says; who do we follow?

Here is what Yahshua says:

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

He kept the law perfectly, and called us to follow him.

Here is what Paul says:

(CLV) 1Co 11:1
Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.

 

[HARK!]

Romans 14

1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on his opinions.a 2For one person has faith to eat all things, while another, who is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The one who eats everything must not belittle the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

This passage is about observing fast days.

19So then, let us pursue what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to let his eating be a stumbling block. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything to cause your brother to stumble.

The eating of foods is not a salvation issue (for God has accepted him) ... the eating of food is not to be a stumbling block ... one needs to be convinced in their own mind ... otherwise the eating of foods becomes a judgement issue on our part .... and we are not to judge others of what they eat.

YHWH defined food in Leviticus.

 

[HARK!]

On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (Matthew 22:36-40)

No other laws: No dietary laws, no law requiring keeping of sabbath days, new moons or festivals, no law requiring circumcision of the flesh,

False.

(CLV) 1Co 6:9
Or are you not aware that the unjust shall not be enjoying the allotment of God's kingdom? Be not deceived. Neither paramours, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor catamites, nor sodomites,

(CLV) 1Co 6:10
nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards; not revilers, not extortioners shall be enjoying the allotment of God's kingdom.

 

[HARK!]

To love God with all our heart, soul and strength is an idiom for obeying his commandments(his law).

to tell us to love God, and then say we don’t need to obey his commandments is confusion

loving God = obeying his commandments

you can’t love God and not obey his commandments. At least not the God of Jacob. Maybe some other god...

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

 

[HARK!]

It seems David bucked this sacrificing bit ...

How so?

 

[Dkh587]

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

 

[eleos1954]

This passage is about observing fast days.
YHWH defined food in Leviticus.

Isn't fasting not eating food at all?