Testing Spirits

HARK! said:

Any ideas on how to test the ones who say it's OK to ignore the Torah?

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Whoa never ignore it. Need to know what has been fulfilled in Christ.

I’m sure we are no longer required to do the physical sacrifices. Meaning we don’t lead our heifer down to the sanctuary for a peace offering. I’d be clueless how to do a heave offering.

I eat bacon cuz I'm not under the law

HARK! said:

So of the spirit says that Master Yahshua came in the flesh; then it's all good; or does it have to say Lord Jesus came in the flesh?

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The spirit can be non-religious, so this is not criteria to say if the spirit is not ok.

HARK! said:

When a spirit comes, and tells me that it's OK to ignore YHWH's perfect Torah; how do I test that spirit?

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So first you need to get a steering wheel and stick it in the spirit's forehead and take it for a test drive. ...

So since we can't do anything that practical, we can only test a message by its fruit. The scripture indicates what the fruit is of a Godly messenger and also of a False one. I'd recommend to do that even when being taught to do things written.

As we learned through the temptations of Christ in the wilderness, even the devil can quote scripture - and as we learned through Peter - any of us can be a chip off the old block one sentence and "the devil" the next.

So always good to test anything claiming to be a messenger of God.

Spirits are tested by DOCTRINE. It is Doctrine that sets apart the Spirit of Christ and the spirit of the devil. Any one that does not confess the doctrine of Christ is not of Christ.

GPendu said:

Spirits are tested by DOCTRINE. It is Doctrine that sets apart the Spirit of Christ and the spirit of the devil. Any one that does not confess the doctrine of Christ is not of Christ.

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This doesn't always work. I recall this one demon possessed person in the gospels preaching a gospel about Jesus being the way to salvation who was then silenced.

Sometimes even the doctrine police can become demonic in that all of their recommendation strips away all that makes us "made in the image and likeness of God" when applied.

In the last part of James chapter 3 a framework is laid out to determine if a message is from a demonic source or a heavenly source - and it had a lot more to do with the character of the person speaking, since out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.

Discerning of spirits is a gift of the Anointing, received as wisdom from above.
James 3:
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom.
14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth.
15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic.
16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.
18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

Whenever I have asked a spirit to confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh, the response has always been silence. The testing of spirits that John prescribes has this effect, to silence them.

1 Corinthians 12:
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,
10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits,
to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually
as He wills.

'Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, ..." I Cor 14:1

Discernment is really good but discerning of spirits is much better and different.

The manifestation of spiritual gifts "to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;"another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:" I Cor 14

All of these come from the Holy Spirit. So if we dont get our information from Him, it's our opinions.

HARK! said:

When a spirit comes, and tells me that it's OK to ignore YHWH's perfect Torah; how do I test that spirit?

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1John.4
[1] Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
[2] Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Michael Collum said:

This doesn't always work. I recall this one demon possessed person in the gospels preaching a gospel about Jesus being the way to salvation who was then silenced.

Sometimes even the doctrine police can become demonic in that all of their recommendation strips away all that makes us "made in the image and likeness of God" when applied.

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Doctrine include what one believes and confess and the fruit which include character.
Character alone is not enough for you end up making unrighteous judgement.

Why was that " this one demon possessed person in the gospels preaching a gospel about Jesus being the way to salvation...", silenced?

HARK! said:

When a spirit comes, and tells me that it's OK to ignore YHWH's perfect Torah; how do I test that spirit?

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Testing spirit is a job of Christians, I must say, from a spiritual church. A sound church usually is holding a correct standard. Christians sticking to this standard are given the ability to test a spirit on what he says.

HARK! said:

When a spirit comes, and tells me that it's OK to ignore YHWH's perfect Torah; how do I test that spirit?

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Read 2 Corinthians 3:7-18 and maybe reconsider what spirits your listening to

“ 2 Corinthians 3:7. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:8. How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?9. For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.10. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.11. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.12. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:13. And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:14. But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.15. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.16. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.17. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.18. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”

and Galatians 3 as well

Galatians 3:1. O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?2. This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?3. Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?4. Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.5. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?6. Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.7. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.8. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.9. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.10. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.11. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.12. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.13. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:14. That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”

HARK! said:

Is destroying YHWH's temple not a sin?

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Romans 14

1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on his opinions.a 2For one person has faith to eat all things, while another, who is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The one who eats everything must not belittle the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

Romans 14

14I am convinced and fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed by what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother, for whom Christ died.

19So then, let us pursue what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to let his eating be a stumbling block. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything to cause your brother to stumble.

The eating of foods is not a salvation issue (for God has accepted him) ... the eating of food is not to be a stumbling block ... one needs to be convinced in their own mind ... otherwise the eating of foods becomes a judgement issue on our part .... and we are not to judge others of what they eat.

so ... if one states by not following the clean/unclean foods as described in the OT they are sinning .... can that create a stumbling block for them (I would say so).

Is it better follow as stated in the OT' what is food for us and what is not? Sure .... but what we eat is not a salvation issue.

Let each be convinced in their own mind regarding the food they eat .... otherwise we may create a stumbling block for them.

Test the spirits:

The only Law that God writes on the heart (Jeremiah 31:33-34) of the one who believes in Jesus is:

Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him,

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (Matthew 22:36-40)

No other laws: No dietary laws, no law requiring keeping of sabbath days, new moons or festivals, no law requiring circumcision of the flesh,

"For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." (Romans 13:9-10)

Therefore we are told, "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law." (Romans 13:8)

The Law is a shadow of the excellence of God, teaching us what sin is (including moral sin) and teaching us to come to Christ.

Test the spirits when you are told anything else.

Fullness of the Gentiles said:

Test the spirits:

The only Law that God writes on the heart (Jeremiah 31:33-34) of the one who believes in Jesus is:

Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him,

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (Matthew 22:36-40)

No other laws: No dietary laws, no law requiring keeping of sabbath days, new moons or festivals, no law requiring circumcision of the flesh,

"For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." (Romans 13:9-10)

Therefore we are told, "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law." (Romans 13:8)

The Law is a shadow of the excellence of God, teaching us what sin is (including moral sin) and teaching us to come to Christ.

Test the spirits when you are told anything else.

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To love God with all our heart, soul and strength is an idiom for obeying his commandments(his law).

to tell us to love God, and then say we don’t need to obey his commandments is confusion

loving God = obeying his commandments

you can’t love God and not obey his commandments. At least not the God of Jacob. Maybe some other god...

HARK! said:

The sacrifices that are to be made through the Priesthood, according to the Torah; must be made through the Priesthood. To make those sacrifices outside of the Priesthood would be a violation of the Torah. The Priesthood will however offer sacrifices in the Kingdom to come.

(CLV) Jer 33:18
As for the Levitical priests there shall not be cut off a man from before Me who offers up the ascent offering and fumes the approach present and offers sacrifices for all the days.

As for now, we are to present ourselves as a living sacrifice.

(CLV) Ro 12:1
I am entreating you, then, brethren, by the pities of God, to present your bodies a sacrifice, living, holy, well pleasing to God, your logical divine service,


The law is to be fulfilled in us.

(CLV) Ro 8:4
that the just requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who are not walking in accord with flesh, but in accord with spirit.

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It seems David bucked this sacrificing bit ...

Dkh587 said:

To love God with all our heart, soul and strength is an idiom for obeying his commandments(his law).

to tell us to love God, and then say we don’t need to obey his commandments is confusion

loving God = obeying his commandments

you can’t love God and not obey his commandments. At least not the God of Jacob. Maybe some other god...

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Which commandments? Can you list for us the commandments you believe God puts in the hearts of those who believe in Jesus, under their categories?

HARK! said:

When a spirit comes, and tells me that it's OK to ignore YHWH's perfect Torah; how do I test that spirit?

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If by the Torah you mean the Old Mosaic Covenant with its 613 laws given to the nation of Israel, then yes that is of God! A new covenant has been made that has 1008 commands for the followers of Jesus! It is a body comprised of Jew and Gentile in one new entity we call the church!

Ex. I do not murder because the Law of Moses says that shalt not commit murder. I do not murder because the New Testament says it is wrong to murder.

One is free to keep the Mosaic Law (Torah) but as long as they know it does not enhance or give them any righteousness before God.

HARK! said:

When a spirit comes, and tells me that it's OK to ignore YHWH's perfect Torah; how do I test that spirit?

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This is a bit of a strawman. NT shows us deeper revelation of law and greater wisdom into what they mean and how to abide in them not to mention we have access to greater wisdom at all times (we don't need to climb a mountain to find God).

Let's take for example circumcision. Circumcision was declared a sign for an everlasting covenant to Moses for Israel and God. Paul unpacks it's meaning a bunch of times and shows us how physical circumcision is nothing but it has far greater meaning beyond the physical and it is this meaning we look to.

Do we ignore Torah when we don't circumcise our sons despite it being a sign for an everlasting covenant? Or are we obligated to circumcise? No and no, we embrace Torah with new revelation as they both are the same thing.

This is where the strawman part comes in. When a spirit tells us to ignore God's Word this is enough to disqualify the spirit and not listen and testing a spirit against God's Word is a good way to test (obviously it would fail to hold up). But I have a feeling this thread is about keeping the letter of the law. When we only define the laws by what Moses penned in the first 5 books of the Bible we willfully surround ourselves in ignorance. We have more than these 5 books to test the spirits and we should live according to revelation given to us and broaden our understanding of what torah is. But I have a feeling this response is in conflict with the OP's intent.