Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian [moved thread]

[Cornelius8L]

There is no law for a Sabbath journey to keep. You are adding to what is not there. Do I travel to go to church on the Sabbath, yes, but the requirement is to keep the Sabbath holy, thats what’s written in the commandment. The writer was just providing background. While its not stated, my guess is the apostle was in constant communion with God on his Sabbath journey. Anyway, we can agree to disagree, I’m okay with that. Take care.

I never say there is a law about Sabbath Journey, so you should not say I’m adding to what is not there (It is a false accusation). Since it was just the writer providing the background as you suggested, then you can no longer use the same background of the apostles going to the temple every Sabbath as a Sabbath requirement since nowhere in the NT says going to the physical church on Saturday means keeping the Sabbath holy. Take care.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I never say there is a law about Sabbath Journey, so you should not say I’m adding to what is not there (It is a false accusation). Since it was just the writer providing the background as you suggested, then you can no longer use the same background of the apostles going to the temple every Sabbath as a Sabbath requirement since nowhere in the NT says going to the physical church on Saturday means keeping the Sabbath holy. Take care.

There seems to be an insulation that there is a law against traveling on the Sabbath. You previously quoted Exodus 16 as a way to indicate traveling wasn't allowed. It appears you changed your stance, so my apologies if I overlooked that.

The disciples preaching God's Word every Sabbath is simply a fact Acts 18:4 and it is inline with keeping the Sabbath holy Exodus 20:8 and honoring the Lord Isaiah 58:13 on His holy Sabbath day and the Sabbath journey to get there is not breaking any law of God, which we appear to agree on.

 

[Leaf473]

There is no law against traveling of any kind on the Sabbath. There is a law in Exodus 16 about leaving your place on the Sabbath. It may or may not refer to leaving your place to gather manna.

The ancient Israelites calculated the distance of allowable travel to be about a thousand steps, or 2,000 feet. That's what "a Sabbath Day's journey" is referring to in Acts 1.

(I previously said they calculated it based on the distance from the camp to outside the camp for toileting, but I was misremembering. It's based on the calculation of the edge of the camp to the Ark, which was at the center and traveled to every Sabbath.)

The Peace of the Lord be with you all!

 

[JulieB67]

There is no law for a Sabbath journey to keep.

There is no law as well that states we can only worship on Saturday but you often imply there is.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

There is no law as well that states we can only worship on Saturday but you often imply there is.

Hi Julie,

I have stated a few times we should worship God everyday, but that does not delete our moral obligation to obey His commandments.

God bless.

 

[JulieB67]

I have stated a few times we should worship God everyday, but that does not delete our moral obligation to obey His commandments.

This was one of your past quotes to me, so I'm glad you've at least changed your mind on that concerning when one can worship.

SabbathBlessings said: ↑
There is no commandment for Sunday-worship or any scripture stating we can worship Him on a day of our choice[/QUOTE}

 

[SabbathBlessings]

This was one of your past quotes to me, so I'm glad you've at least changed your mind on that concerning when one can worship.

This is in lieu of Sabbath-keeping which is a commandment of God. I haven't changed my mind on anything, just when being micro quoted, you don't always get the full context.

I'll repeat my thought again, we should worship God daily, but that doesn't change our obligation to obey what God asks of us. So, to further my thought, there is no scripture that says we can worship God on Tuesday for example and do what we want on God's holy Sabbath day. When I use the word worship in this context, I am meaning the primary day of worship. Not worshipping daily through prayers, devotion, and bible study which I think its something we should do daily. Sabbath worship is a full day of honoring the Lord and keeping His Sabbath holy like we are told in Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13. God commands us to do all our work and labors on the other six days, and just asks for us to keep one day holy for a full day, the seventh day.

I hope this helps.

 

[Cornelius8L]

Let’s not forget that the ark in heaven also consists of Manna and Aaron’s staff (Hebrews 9:4). This is the manna Jesus said the people eat and die, and new bread is Him (John 6:49-51). High Priest, Aaron’s staff which was turned into a shrewd snake swallowing up other staffs (Exodus 7:9, Matthew 10:16) and turning the water of Egypt into blood linked to death (Exodus 7:19, 1 John 5:6) also seems to point towards Him whom His people rejected (Numbers 17:10, John 1:11).

If two out of the three items point to Jesus (John 5:39), what is the probability of the decalogue also pointing toward Him?

God’s spiritual finger writings on earth must return to the spiritual heaven [magnified].

#5C + Christ and Church (that obeys God) are father and mother. We honor Christ and the Church who walks the will of God (Mark 3:35), and we inherit the promise (Ephesians 6:2).
#6C + Not hating brothers who walk the will of God/Christ (Mark 3:35, 1 John 3:15). Jesus is also our brother (Hebrews 2:11).
#7C + Not departing from God/Christ (Hosea 1:2, James 4:4)
#8C + Not stealing the words of God/Christ (Jeremiah 23:30).
#9C + Not Lying against those who showed us mercy (Luke 10:36-37). God also showed us mercy (Romans 9:16).
#10C + Acts 8:18-22, James 3:1-2, 2 Corinthians 11:12-13 (Not coveting for supremacy or the gifts of others). Not coveting for the position of Jesus as the head of the Church (Matthew 23:8-11, 1 John 2:18).

Since all #5-10 points to Christ when they returned to heaven magnified, #1-4 would reflect the same, magnified.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Let’s not forget that the ark in heaven also consists of Manna and Aaron’s staff (Hebrews 9:4). This is the manna Jesus said the people eat and die, and new bread is Him (John 6:49-51). High Priest, Aaron’s staff which was turned into a shrewd snake swallowing up other staffs (Exodus 7:9, Matthew 10:16) and turning the water of Egypt into blood linked to death (Exodus 7:19, 1 John 5:6) also seems to point towards Him whom His people rejected (Numbers 17:10, John 1:11).

If two out of the three items point to Jesus (John 5:39), what is the probability of the decalogue also pointing toward Him?

Yes, in the Most Holy of God's Temple under His mercy seat lies the ark of the covenant, that holds engraved in stone by God's own finger the Ten Commandments, in addition inside the ark has two other articles which are very symbolic. This is my understanding of these items.

Jar of manna- This comes from Exodus where the manna fell every day except for the seventh day Sabbath and instead a double portion on the preparation day, the day before (Friday) was to be gathered as no manna would be available to gather on the Sabbath. The bread represents the Word of God. I am the bread of life John 6:48. This story represents when we follow God's instructions and depend on Him, He gives us everything we need. The Israelites for 40 years received everything they needed in the wilderness as long as they obeyed God. God wants His law in our heart and minds Hebrews 8:10 and another symbolic reason His law was inside the ark of the covenant.


The last article was Aaron's rod that budded. To understand the story which was of defiance to God is found in Numbers 16. They thought they could be holy without God, without having to follow God or God's prophet Moses. There's more to the story so I recommend reading it.

Each leader of the 12 tribes of Israel had a rod and Moses wrote their names on it. The each took their rods to the tabernacle and the next day there was one rod that budded and had almonds on it, which was Aaron's rod.

Numbers 17:10 The Lord said to Moses, “Put back Aaron’s staff in front of the ark of the covenant law, to be kept as a sign to the rebellious. This will put an end to their grumbling against me, so that they will not die.”

This is a perpetual sign that we don't have the right to make up our own rules or change God's rules.

 

[Cornelius8L]

Yes, in the Most Holy of God's Temple under His mercy seat lies the ark of the covenant, that holds engraved in stone by God's own finger the Ten Commandments, in addition inside the ark has two other articles which are very symbolic. This is my understanding of these items.

Jar of manna- This comes from Exodus where the manna fell every day except for the seventh day Sabbath and instead a double portion on the preparation day, the day before (Friday) was to be gathered as no manna would be available to gather on the Sabbath. The bread represents the Word of God. I am the bread of life John 6:48. This story represents when we follow God's instructions and depend on Him, He gives us everything we need. The Israelites for 40 years received everything they needed in the wilderness as long as they obeyed God. God wants His law in our heart and minds Hebrews 8:10 and another symbolic reason His law was inside the ark of the covenant.

The last article was Aaron's rod that budded. To understand the story which was of defiance to God is found in Numbers 16. They thought they could be holy without God, without having to follow God or God's prophet Moses. There's more to the story so I recommend reading it.

Each leader of the 12 tribes of Israel had a rod and Moses wrote their names on it. The each took their rods to the tabernacle and the next day there was one rod that budded and had almonds on it, which was Aaron's rod.

Numbers 17:10 The Lord said to Moses, “Put back Aaron’s staff in front of the ark of the covenant law, to be kept as a sign to the rebellious. This will put an end to their grumbling against me, so that they will not die.”

This is a perpetual sign that we don't have the right to make up our own rules or change God's rules.

Thanks for providing more background. The manna which does not fall on the seventh day was the manna the people eat, yet they died (John 6:49). As the manna represents the Word of God we read (Deuteronomy 8:3, Jeremiah 15:16), it contradicts the practice of hearing the words of God on the seventh day. Therefore, Jesus came to fulfill/magnify/change it (John 6:63).

As for the rod, the leaders do not want to follow Moses and Aaron (both represent Jesus). So God chose Aaron’s rod, which is also the rod of the High Priest, a sign that we cannot change or unchanged what is fulfilled by Jesus (or through Paul).

 

[Cornelius8L]

Ezra came after Prophet Isaiah and Ezekiel. In his opening message, he said:

Ezra 1
1In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, to fulfill the word of the LORD spoken through Jeremiah, the LORD stirred the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia to send a proclamation throughout his kingdom and to put it in writing as follows: 2“This is what Cyrus king of Persia says: ‘The LORD, the God of heaven, who has given me all the kingdoms of the earth, has appointed me to build a house for Him at Jerusalem in Judah. 3Whoever among you belongs to His people, may his God be with him, and may he go to Jerusalem in Judah and build the house of the LORD, the God of Israel; He is the God who is in Jerusalem. 4And let every survivor, wherever he lives, be assisted by the men of that region with silver, gold, goods, and livestock, along with a freewill offering for the house of God in Jerusalem.’ ”​

Jesus also quoted Prophet Isaiah, who said:

Isaiah 56:7
I will bring them to My holy mountain and make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on My altar, for My house will be called a house of prayer for all the nations.
Matthew 21:13
And He declared to them, “It is written: ‘My house will be called a house of prayer.’ But you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’ ”​

We know the House of prayer is no longer the Jerusalem temple because we are His House (1 Corinthians 3:16). We need to understand how OT has changed. Jesus quoted Isaiah 56:7 when cleansing the physical temple because He hasn’t died and resurrected, fulfilling the law. Do we think Jesus will now say the Jerusalem temple is still His house? If not, how is it the sabbath commandment which ties to this house (Isaiah 56:7) not change when everything else changed?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Thanks for providing more background. The manna which does not fall on the seventh day was the manna the people eat, yet they died (John 6:49). As the manna represents the Word of God we read (Deuteronomy 8:3, Jeremiah 15:16), it contradicts the practice of hearing the words of God on the seventh day. Therefore, Jesus came to fulfill/magnify/change it (John 6:63).

As for the rod, the leaders do not want to follow Moses and Aaron (both represent Jesus). So God chose Aaron’s rod, which is also the rod of the High Priest, a sign that we cannot change or unchanged what is fulfilled by Jesus (or through Paul).

It seems like you missed the whole moral of the story and not everyone died eating the manna, some did because they also disobeyed God in other areas. Ezekiel 20:13. John 6:63 does not say Jesus came to change the seventh day Sabbath and you’re reading that into the scriptures. The Holy Spirit wrote the scriptures so is not in conflict with the commandments of God. Jesus taught magnify means to make greater not change/destroy and He we are told not to change one word. Matthew 5:17-30 Proverbs 30:5-6 and we are told not to add or subtract to the commandments Deuteronomy 4:2 Jesus teaches we should obey the commandments over mans rules. Matthew 15:3-9

The safer bet is always obeying God the way He asks in my opinion, but God gives us free will.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

1 And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

Doesn’t appear the commandment changed after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. If there would have been a change to one of the Ten Commandments, we would have such clear scripture telling us so.

The Sabbath was changed as predicted in scripture Daniel 7:25 but by man and not God.

The Sabbath was changed in the year 300 by Constantine. There were many pagan traditions that were co-mingled with Christian teachings, one of those was the Sabbath. Sun worship became Sunday worship and slowly these and other non-Christian teachings started to be taught by the church. When the reformers started to notice some of these type of teachings that were not coming from the Bible the RCC reminded the Protestant reformers of still holding on to RCC teachings instead of fully embracing the teachings of the Bible.

Some quotes…

It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.
—Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.

Protestants ... accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change... But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that ... in observing Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the Church, the pope.
—Our Sunday Visitor, February 5th, 1950.

Jesus who we are to follow, told us to keep the commandments of God quoting right from the Ten over the teachings of man. Matthew 15:3-9

Some of the reformers were coming around to the biblical Truth. We are called to worship Him in Truth and Spirit John 4:23-24 and called out of our false teaching. Revelation 14

I wonder exceedingly how it came to be imputed to me that I should reject the law of Ten Commandments...Whosoever abrogates the law must of necessity abrogate sin also.
—MARTIN LUTHER, Spiritual Antichrist, pages 71, 72.

This 'handwriting of ordinances' our Lord did blot out, take away, and nail to His cross. (Colossians 2: 14.) But the moral law contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He did not take away.... The moral law stands on an entirely different foundation from the ceremonial or ritual law. ...Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind and in all ages.
—JOHN WESLEY, Sermons on Several Occasions, 2-Vol. Edition, Vol. I, pages 221, 222.

The Christian Sabbath (Sunday) is not in the Scriptures, and was not by the primitive church called the Sabbath.
—Dwight's Theology, Vol. 14, p. 401.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

Doesn’t appear the commandment changed after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. If there would have been a change to one of the Ten Commandments, we would have such clear scripture telling us so.

The Sabbath was changed as predicted in scripture Daniel 7:25 but by man and not God.

The Sabbath was changed in the year 300 by Caesar. There were many pagan traditions that were co-mingled with Christian teachings, one of those was the Sabbath. Sun worship became Sunday worship and slowly these and other non-Christian teachings started to be taught by the church. When the reformers started to notice some of these type of teachings that were not coming from the Bible the RCC reminded the Protestant reformers of still holding on to RCC teachings instead of fully embracing the teachings of the Bible.

Some quotes…

It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.
—Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.

Protestants ... accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change... But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that ... in observing Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the Church, the pope.
—Our Sunday Visitor, February 5th, 1950.

Jesus who we are to follow, told us to keep the commandments of God quoting right from the Ten over the teachings of man. Matthew 15:3-9

Some of the reformers were coming around to the biblical Truth. We are called to worship Him in Truth and Spirit John 4:23-24 and called out of our false teaching. Revelation 14

I wonder exceedingly how it came to be imputed to me that I should reject the law of Ten Commandments...Whosoever abrogates the law must of necessity abrogate sin also.
—MARTIN LUTHER, Spiritual Antichrist, pages 71, 72.

This 'handwriting of ordinances' our Lord did blot out, take away, and nail to His cross. (Colossians 2: 14.) But the moral law contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He did not take away.... The moral law stands on an entirely different foundation from the ceremonial or ritual law. ...Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind and in all ages.
—JOHN WESLEY, Sermons on Several Occasions, 2-Vol. Edition, Vol. I, pages 221, 222.

The Christian Sabbath (Sunday) is not in the Scriptures, and was not by the primitive church called the Sabbath.
—Dwight's Theology, Vol. 14, p. 401.

Mt 28:1 is clear at the eve of the sabbaths,toward the first of the sabbaths

1 And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see , it was dawn, after the 7th day.

 

[Leaf473]

We all have our favorite scripture passages. When evaluating a doctrine such as Sabbatarianism, it is good to consider what the entire Bible has to say.

Proverbs 8
All the words of my mouth are in righteousness.
There is nothing crooked or perverse in them.

They are all plain to him who understands,
right to those who find knowledge.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Mt 28:1 is clear at the eve of the sabbaths,toward the first of the sabbaths

1 And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see , it was dawn, after the 7th day.

Let’s quote it:

Matthew 28:1 Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

In biblical times the days start in the evening. See Genesis 1

Genesis 1:19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Lev 23:32 from evening to evening, you shall celebrate your sabbath.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Let’s quote it:

Matthew 28:1 Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

In biblical times the days start in the evening. See Genesis 1

Genesis 1:19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Lev 23:32 from evening to evening, you shall celebrate your sabbath.

We are not keeping the Mosaic rest, but rather the Lord's day rest.
The old Covenant is completed now

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The Lords day of rest is the seventh day Sabbath Exodus 20:8-11 Isaiah 58:13 Genesis 2:1-3 and there’s no scripture that says otherwise which is probably why you didn’t quote scripture to support this idea.

 

[Bob S]

We are not keeping the Mosaic rest, but rather the Lord's day rest.
The old Covenant is completed now

I agree with most of your statements. I cannot find anything in the new covenant that demands Gentiles and new covenant Christians to worship on the day given only to Israel. Until it is established in scripture that God demands Christians and Gentiles to accept the old Israelite Sabbath, all the rhetoric is for naught.