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The Danger of "Keeping Sabbath."

Gary K

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I did not realize you were Jewish. No the Lord did not lie to the Jews.

But to the gentiles He saved us by grace so why would we keep a sabbath if we do?
So, I am not breaking the Sabbath by following Isaiah 58.

I also don't understand why you think I should follow your conscience.

I am, like Paul said, a Jew inwardly.

Romans 2: 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

I don't care in the least for the praise of men. I want to be right with God.
 
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sparow

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Brothers, the law did not make Judaism Christian because it was "weak through the flesh," due to disobedience. Judaism is the son of Hagar in disobedience to God rather than a son of Sarah in obedience to God's law. Jesus overcame this weakness through the flesh by being our example in the flesh of how to obey the law, rather than our example being Judaism in its disobedience to the law by replacing God's law with its own human law. Like our modern replacement of the Sabbath for Sunday. Sunday is a human tradition of God's will that we keep His Sabbath in the new covenant book of Hebrews.

The following passage talks about working on obedience now and not that we must wait until Jesus returns to be obedient. We have yet to understand the biblical Sabbath in the new covenant book of Hebrews as fixed in the time zone of creation in Eden, which shows the truth in the statement that "what we will be has not yet been made known". What the Bible does say is that when Jesus returns, "we will be like him" in our obedience and not that we should wait for this to happen in the future.

See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure. (1 John 3:1-3 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
There is a difference between now and the future; now we are able to sin, now we can lose our salvation; in the future we will be the same form as he and not be able to sin.
 
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sparow

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Anyone claiming to keep the law as Christ did is sinning.

Then, James was wrong about breaking the law. It is ok to try, but actually keeping the law is not essential?

Keep? What does that even mean the way you use it?
I disagree, at the end of the day one will receive the seal of God which is God's Law, or we will receive the mark of the Beast, which is someone elses Law.
 
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Mercy Shown

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I disagree, at the end of the day one will receive the seal of God which is God's Law, or we will receive the mark of the Beast, which is someone elses Law.
To keep the law as Christ did means you are without sin, and claiming such is a sin.

1 John 1:8
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If the truth is not in us, then we are not keeping God's law; we are only making an empty claim to be doing so.

I do not see where the seal of God is His law.

The seal of God is:
  1. The Holy Spirit
    1. Ephesians 4:30
      And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
    2. Ephesians 1:13
      In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
 
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Mercy Shown

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So, I am not breaking the Sabbath by following Isaiah 58.

I also don't understand why you think I should follow your conscience.
Can you, for a moment, put aside assuming what I am saying? I am just exploring your reasons for claiming to keep the Sabbath. I find it strange that "sabbath keepers" struggle to articulate what it means to "keep the Sabbath."

Especially when the bible says,
I am, like Paul said, a Jew inwardly.

Romans 2: 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

I don't care in the least for the praise of men. I want to be right with God.
So, for you, you achieve rightness with God by doing.

Hodes Gal 3:10 fit into this? For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”
 
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guevaraj

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in the future we will be the same form as he and not be able to sin.
Brother, we will be pure like Jesus before Jesus comes and not after Jesus comes.

See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure. (1 John 3:1-3 NIV)​

We are made pure by the truth in God's word, like learning the true Sabbath in the Bible to discard the human replacement traditions that keep us in sin through disobedience when the truth will set us free from sin as we obey the true Sabbath.

Make them holy by your truth; teach them your word, which is truth. (John 17:17 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Mercy Shown

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Brother, we will be pure like Jesus before Jesus comes and not after Jesus comes.

See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure. (1 John 3:1-3 NIV)​

We are made pure by the truth in God's word, like learning the true Sabbath in the Bible to discard the human replacement traditions that keep us in sin through disobedience when the truth will set us free from sin as we obey the true Sabbath.

Make them holy by your truth; teach them your word, which is truth. (John 17:17 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Already done my friend. I hope you are not trying to achieve what Jesus has done for you.
 
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guevaraj

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Already done my friend. I hope you are not trying to achieve what Jesus has done for you.
Brother, God forgave us many times before Jesus died! Animal sacrifices for the forgiveness of past sins were a stand-in for the future ministry of Jesus as our High Priest. God has been forgiving past sins from the beginning, as if Jesus had already died before His actual death established Jesus as our High Priest. What is different after Jesus from before Jesus is that we now have a model in the flesh of obedience to the Ten Commandments in Jesus to eliminate sin, instead of Judaism's disobedience to the Ten Commandments being our model that keeps us in sin.

Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law (nomos)/Commandments (entolé) in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law (nomos)/Commandment (entolé) from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.” (Mark 7:9-13 NLT fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Mercy Shown

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Brother, God forgave us many times before Jesus died! Animal sacrifices for the forgiveness of past sins were a stand-in for the future ministry of Jesus as our High Priest. God has been forgiving past sins from the beginning, as if Jesus had already died before His actual death established Jesus as our High Priest.
My friend don’t underestimate God. God is not like us, he is not bound to our timeline. All forgiveness whether it was Adam and e
Eves or ours today was accomplished by
Jesus Christ death on the cross.

God knows what he was doing, and he knows the end from the beginning, and he knew that Christ sacrifice would cover all sins for all time. That is why he described the death of the lamb as “from the foundations of the earth.”

Revelation 13:8, which says, "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world".
What is different after Jesus from before Jesus is that we now have a model in the flesh of obedience to the Ten Commandments in Jesus to eliminate sin, instead of Judaism's disobedience to the Ten Commandments being our model that keeps us in sin.

Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law (nomos)/Commandments (entolé) in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law (nomos)/Commandment (entolé) from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.” (Mark 7:9-13 NLT fixed)​
It is a shame to compare the ultimate sacrifice for our sins by Jesus Christ to works and traditions of mankind.

It is not wise to neglect, so great a salvation as Jesus Christ has provided for us in that he became a sin for us, that we may become the righteousness of God in him.

Jesus Christ is an example only for those who are being made, holy not for those who are trying to gain holiness by their works. He came first and foremost to be a substitute for us, and to take all of our sins upon him, and impute to us, all of his righteousness that we might stand before God is, if we’ve never sinned and then, and only then, is he our example.

Anyone who tries to emulate Jesus Christ, without having received his imputed righteousness, and the Holy Spirit, is nothing but a thief, trying to climb over the wall to the sheep gate, rather than going through the gate, which is Jesus Christ.

Anyone trying to emulate Jesus Christ for gain is wasting their time, and in the end will cry, Lord Lord, and he will say depart from me, for I never knew you.

I would employ you not to waste a minute longer, but go to Jesus Christ, and receive your salvation today and the forgiveness of all of your sins past present and future. Then you will be free to worship him out of love, and love only. It is relationship that he seeks not our fetid and filthy, rag righteousness.
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Gary K

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My friend don’t underestimate God. God is not like us, he is not bound to our timeline. All forgiveness whether it was Adam and e
Eves or ours today was accomplished by
Jesus Christ death on the cross.

God knows what he was doing, and he knows the end from the beginning, and he knew that Christ sacrifice would cover all sins for all time. That is why he described the death of the lamb as “from the foundations of the earth.”

Revelation 13:8, which says, "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world".

It is a shame to compare the ultimate sacrifice for our sins by Jesus Christ to works and traditions of mankind.

It is not wise to neglect, so great a salvation as Jesus Christ has provided for us in that he became a sin for us, that we may become the righteousness of God in him.

Jesus Christ is an example only for those who are being made, holy not for those who are trying to gain holiness by their works. He came first and foremost to be a substitute for us, and to take all of our sins upon him, and impute to us, all of his righteousness that we might stand before God is, if we’ve never sinned and then, and only then, is he our example.

Anyone who tries to emulate Jesus Christ, without having received his imputed righteousness, and the Holy Spirit, is nothing but a thief, trying to climb over the wall to the sheep gate, rather than going through the gate, which is Jesus Christ.

Anyone trying to emulate Jesus Christ for gain is wasting their time, and in the end will cry, Lord Lord, and he will say depart from me, for I never knew you.

I would employ you not to waste a minute longer, but go to Jesus Christ, and receive your salvation today and the forgiveness of all of your sins past present and future. Then you will be free to worship him out of love, and love only. It is relationship that he seeks not our fetid and filthy, rag righteousness.
You have embraced gnosticism. This came from Simon Magus.

Acts 8: 8 And there was great joy in that city.
9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:
10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.
11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.
12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

Jesus is able to not only forgive us but has the power to change us through His word. He spoke our world into existence and His word, found in scripture also has creative power so He can recreate back into His image.
 
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Mercy Shown

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You have embraced gnosticism. This came from Simon Magus.
While Simon Magus led his followers in his brand of Gnosticism, its roots are deeply intertwined with various religious and philosophical traditions of the ancient world, including Greek, Jewish, and Persian influences. The term "Gnosticism" itself derives from the Greek word "gnosis," meaning knowledge, reflecting the emphasis on spiritual insight and revelation.

Early Development: Gnosticism began to take shape within the context of early Christianity, with some scholars suggesting that certain Gnostic ideas may have existed even before the emergence of Christianity. Gnostic texts, such as the Nag Hammadi Library, discovered in Egypt in 1945, provide insights into the beliefs and practices of Gnostic groups.

It is a shame that you accuse the Gospel of Jesus, our Lord, of being gnostic, for it isn't at all. It is the words of life to all who will receive it. Gnosticism by contrast, is anti-christ

Dualism: Gnostics often believe in a fundamental dualism between the material world, which is seen as flawed or evil, and the spiritual realm, which is perfect and divine. They view the material world as the creation of a lesser or ignorant deity, often referred to as the Demiurge.

The Gospel teaches us that all things were created through Jesus Christ and that nothing that has been made was made without Him.

Salvation through Knowledge: Gnostics believe that salvation comes through gaining spiritual knowledge or insight into the true nature of reality. This knowledge is not acquired through traditional teachings or scriptures but through personal revelation or enlightenment.

The Gospel teaches us that salvation is found in Christ alone through faith, the gift of God.

Divine Spark: Gnostics teach that each individual possesses a divine spark or essence, which is trapped within the material realm. Salvation involves liberating this divine spark from its earthly prison and reuniting it with the divine source.

The Gospel teaches that all men were ignorant of God, dead to him, until He made us alive by His sovereign will.

Redeemer Figure: Gnostic mythologies often include a redeemer figure, such as Christ or another divine being, who descends from the spiritual realm to impart knowledge and help liberate humanity from ignorance and bondage.

This is where many Christians give heed to a gnostic teaching. We are not saved by imparted knowledge or by following special laws. We are saved by God's magnificent Grace, who made us alive even when we were dead in our sins and trespasses. Christ did not come to set an example for us to imitate unto salvation. He is our example to show us how far we were from true holiness and reveal our deep need for a savior.

Rejection of Authority: Gnostics tend to reject the authority of established religious institutions and scriptures, believing that true spiritual understanding cannot be confined to dogma or tradition.

The Gospel gives us the body of Christ on earth, His Church, to nurture, counsel, and provide fellowship.

I will testify now that the Gospel of Jesus Christ has nothing to do with agnosticism.

Acts 8: 8 And there was great joy in that city.

9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:
10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.
11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.
12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

Jesus is able to not only forgive us but has the power to change us through His word. He spoke our world into existence and His word, found in scripture also has creative power so He can recreate back into His image.
It has already been done for you. Please do not wait to accept it. 2 Corinthians 6:2: “Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.”
 
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Gary K

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While Simon Magus led his followers in his brand of Gnosticism, its roots are deeply intertwined with various religious and philosophical traditions of the ancient world, including Greek, Jewish, and Persian influences. The term "Gnosticism" itself derives from the Greek word "gnosis," meaning knowledge, reflecting the emphasis on spiritual insight and revelation.

Early Development: Gnosticism began to take shape within the context of early Christianity, with some scholars suggesting that certain Gnostic ideas may have existed even before the emergence of Christianity. Gnostic texts, such as the Nag Hammadi Library, discovered in Egypt in 1945, provide insights into the beliefs and practices of Gnostic groups.

It is a shame that you accuse the Gospel of Jesus, our Lord, of being gnostic, for it isn't at all. It is the words of life to all who will receive it. Gnosticism by contrast, is anti-christ

Dualism: Gnostics often believe in a fundamental dualism between the material world, which is seen as flawed or evil, and the spiritual realm, which is perfect and divine. They view the material world as the creation of a lesser or ignorant deity, often referred to as the Demiurge.

The Gospel teaches us that all things were created through Jesus Christ and that nothing that has been made was made without Him.

Salvation through Knowledge: Gnostics believe that salvation comes through gaining spiritual knowledge or insight into the true nature of reality. This knowledge is not acquired through traditional teachings or scriptures but through personal revelation or enlightenment.

The Gospel teaches us that salvation is found in Christ alone through faith, the gift of God.

Divine Spark: Gnostics teach that each individual possesses a divine spark or essence, which is trapped within the material realm. Salvation involves liberating this divine spark from its earthly prison and reuniting it with the divine source.

The Gospel teaches that all men were ignorant of God, dead to him, until He made us alive by His sovereign will.

Redeemer Figure: Gnostic mythologies often include a redeemer figure, such as Christ or another divine being, who descends from the spiritual realm to impart knowledge and help liberate humanity from ignorance and bondage.

This is where many Christians give heed to a gnostic teaching. We are not saved by imparted knowledge or by following special laws. We are saved by God's magnificent Grace, who made us alive even when we were dead in our sins and trespasses. Christ did not come to set an example for us to imitate unto salvation. He is our example to show us how far we were from true holiness and reveal our deep need for a savior.

Rejection of Authority: Gnostics tend to reject the authority of established religious institutions and scriptures, believing that true spiritual understanding cannot be confined to dogma or tradition.

The Gospel gives us the body of Christ on earth, His Church, to nurture, counsel, and provide fellowship.

I will testify now that the Gospel of Jesus Christ has nothing to do with agnosticism.




It has already been done for you. Please do not wait to accept it. 2 Corinthians 6:2: “Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.”
You're right. The gospel of Jesus and Paul has nothing to do with gnosticism, but your reading of scripture is gnostic. You reject Matthew 1:21 as written for your own version of in your sins.
 
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Mercy Shown

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You're right. The gospel of Jesus and Paul has nothing to do with gnosticism, but your reading of scripture is gnostic. You reject Matthew 1:21 as written for your own version of in your sins.
First of all even if that were true, it would not be Gnosticism.

Secondly why would you say that when I have been perfected forever by Jesus one sacrifice while still being made Holy.

People who claim to keep the law never define what they mean. You claim to keep the law and yet admit to having “some sin.” How is that keeping the law? Should I assume that you reject Matthew 5:48 as you have assumed that I reject Matthew Matthew 1:21.

You see it is essential to understand that nothing less than absolute perfection will ever enter the kingdom of God. It is how one goes about gaining such a status that must be addressed for there are infinite ways to fail but only one narrow way to have it.
 
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Gary K

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First of all even if that were true, it would not be Gnosticism.

Secondly why would you say that when I have been perfected forever by Jesus one sacrifice while still being made Holy.

People who claim to keep the law never define what they mean. You claim to keep the law and yet admit to having “some sin.” How is that keeping the law? Should I assume that you reject Matthew 5:48 as you have assumed that I reject Matthew Matthew 1:21.

You see it is essential to understand that nothing less than absolute perfection will ever enter the kingdom of God. It is how one goes about gaining such a status that must be addressed for there are infinite ways to fail but only one narrow way to have it.
Gnosticism is "secret" knowledge. It isn't Biblical knowledge. I accept Matthew 5: 48. Why would Jesus tell us to be something He cannot do in and for us? That's the beauty of the gospel. All things are possible with God. Matthew 19: 26 It's more scripture you refuse to believe.
 
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Mercy Shown

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Gnosticism is "secret" knowledge. It isn't Biblical knowledge. I accept Matthew 5: 48. Why would Jesus tell us to be something He cannot do in and for us? That's the beauty of the gospel. All things are possible with God. Matthew 19: 26 It's more scripture you refuse to believe.
You are hard to have a conversation with. When do you expect to be as perfect as God? Why aren’t you now? If Jesus tells you to to do something shouldn’t you be doing it?

Have you ever known any human as perfect as God?

It seems that you are an adherent of the Holy Flesh movement.
 
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Gary K

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You are hard to have a conversation with. When do you expect to be as perfect as God? Why aren’t you now? If Jesus tells you to to do something shouldn’t you be doing it?

Have you ever known any human as perfect as God?

It seems that you are an adherent of the Holy Flesh movement.
Nope. I am a sinful human being. I inherited my spiritual nature from Adam. The only reason you have a hard time talking to me is you reject any scripture you don't want to believe. You don't have the faith it takes to believe it.
 
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Leaf473

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People who claim to keep the law never define what they mean.
I think it would greatly help the discussion if those who observe the seventh day would say what the Commandments of God are.


I get that the Ten Commandments are included, but knowing for sure what other Commandments are included would help move things forward, imo.

 
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Gary K

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I think it would greatly help the discussion if those who observe the seventh day would say what the Commandments of God are.


I get that the Ten Commandments are included, but knowing for sure what other Commandments are included would help move things forward, imo.

The 10 commandments are the 10 commandments. They define sin.
 
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Mercy Shown

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Nope. I am a sinful human being. I inherited my spiritual nature from Adam. The only reason you have a hard time talking to me is you reject any scripture you don't want to believe.
I can assure you that I do not reject any scripture. The reason I have a hard time conversing with you is because you jump to conclusions and tell me what I am thinking instead of asking what I am thinking.
You don't have the faith it takes to believe it.
Does it not bother you in the least to make such judgements.

Now to your mea culpa. Why are you not sinless as Jesus commands? As you say, the bible records that with God all things are possible and yet here you admitting to being “a sinful human being.”

Why have you not become a sinless human being with God? Do you believe in general that God will bring sinful human beings into sinless heaven?

If the 2nd coming happened right now, would you be welcomed home as a good a faithful servant?
 
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Mercy Shown

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The 10 commandments are the 10 commandments. They define sin.
More to the point they define certain fruits of sin. Jesus taught this in his Sermon in the mount.

For instance, the Ten Commandments do not forbid angery shouting at another person yet according to Jesus that is a sin.

If a cuss at someone is that a sin? I would say that having the anger in your heart that produces the cussing is closer to sin than the cussing.
 
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