Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian [moved thread]

[Leaf473]

Brother, what is written in the heart is the same in all languages only if properly translated in our Bibles.

Jesus replied, “All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with each of them. Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me. And remember, my words are not my own. What I am telling you is from the Father who sent me. I am telling you these things now while I am still with you. But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative—that is, the Holy Spirit—he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you. (John 14:23-26 NLT)​

The Holy Spirit's reminder is only effective if what you read in your Bible is a correct translation. Today we all have access to the word of God in all our languages. This was not the case in the past, when the bishops of Rome were the only ones who had access to very few Latin Bibles.

“But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel after those days,” says the LORD. “I will put my instructions deep within them, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives, saying, ‘You should know the LORD.’ For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will know me already,” says the LORD. “And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins.” (Jeremiah 31:33-34 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Brother, God is the one who does the writing in the hearts. God is not limited by translators.

Are you seriously suggesting that God did not write his laws in people's hearts prior to modern times?

United in the love of God.

 

[guevaraj]

Brother, God is the one who does the writing in the hearts. God is not limited by translators. Are you seriously suggesting that God did not write his laws in people's hearts prior to modern times? United in the love of God.

Brother, our history shows what is confirmed in the word of God: the Holy Spirit "will remind you of everything" you read in the word of God guarantied from the beginning through Prophets, effective only if properly translated.

Jesus replied, “All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with each of them. Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me. And remember, my words are not my own. What I am telling you is from the Father who sent me. I am telling you these things now while I am still with you. But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative—that is, the Holy Spirit—he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you. (John 14:23-26 NLT)​

This explains the prevalent error started by the King James Version (KJV)'s misidentification of "Joshua" as "Jesus" in Hebrews, chapter 4, when Jesus was not before David to make the "good news" of entering the Sabbath the "gospel" of Jesus, when the gospel of Jesus was not available to "Joshua" who first heard the "good news" in the desert before David.

For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. (Hebrews 4:2-8 KJV)​

The wrong translation of "gospel" for the phrase the "good news" of entering the Sabbath has influenced wrongly many other Bible translations after the KJV. The newer NKJV fixes the misidentification of Joshua as Jesus but not its effect on the rest of the passage, like the "gospel" (not possible before David), for the phrase, the "good news" of entering the Sabbath, first heard by those that died in the desert.

For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: “So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ” although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.” Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said: “Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts.” For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. (Hebrews 4:2-8 NKJV)​

The "good news" heard by those, like Joshua, who were not allowed to enter the Sabbath by "oath" near the Promised Land with Manna, that Joshua later entered before the seventh day of the week from evening to evening, having been prevented from entering the Sabbath with Manna for 40 years from morning to morning near the Promised Land. The following was the first translation I found unaffected by the error of the KJV. In the passage, "another day" refers to a different day than the one thought for the Sabbath since Joshua: not the seventh day of the week everywhere, but the seventh day of the week of creation remembered in the time zone of creation.

For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:2-8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, our history shows what is confirmed in the word of God: the Holy Spirit "will remind you of everything" you read in the word of God guarantied from the beginning through Prophets, effective only if properly translated.

Jesus replied, “All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with each of them. Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me. And remember, my words are not my own. What I am telling you is from the Father who sent me. I am telling you these things now while I am still with you. But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative—that is, the Holy Spirit—he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you. (John 14:23-26 NLT)​

This explains the prevalent error started by the King James Version (KJV)'s misidentification of "Joshua" as "Jesus" in Hebrews, chapter 4, when Jesus was not before David to make the "good news" of entering the Sabbath the "gospel" of Jesus, when the gospel of Jesus was not available to "Joshua" who first heard the "good news" in the desert before David.

For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. (Hebrews 4:2-8 KJV)​

The wrong translation of "gospel" for the phrase the "good news" of entering the Sabbath has influenced wrongly many other Bible translations after the KJV. The newer NKJV fixes the misidentification of Joshua as Jesus but not its effect on the rest of the passage, like the "gospel" (not possible before David), for the phrase, the "good news" of entering the Sabbath, first heard by those that died in the desert.

For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: “So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ” although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.” Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said: “Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts.” For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. (Hebrews 4:2-8 NKJV)​

The "good news" heard by those, like Joshua, who were not allowed to enter the Sabbath by "oath" near the Promised Land with Manna, that Joshua later entered before the seventh day of the week from evening to evening, having been prevented from entering the Sabbath with Manna for 40 years from morning to morning near the Promised Land. The following was the first translation I found unaffected by the error of the KJV. In the passage, "another day" refers to a different day than the one thought for the Sabbath since Joshua: not the seventh day of the week everywhere, but the seventh day of the week of creation remembered in the time zone of creation.

For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:2-8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Brother, if you are saying that God did not write his laws on anyone's heart until modern times, then we definitely disagree.

United in waiting for the coming of the Lord Jesus.

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, our history shows what is confirmed in the word of God: the Holy Spirit "will remind you of everything" you read in the word of God guarantied from the beginning through Prophets, effective only if properly translated.

Jesus replied, “All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with each of them. Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me. And remember, my words are not my own. What I am telling you is from the Father who sent me. I am telling you these things now while I am still with you. But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative—that is, the Holy Spirit—he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you. (John 14:23-26 NLT)​

This explains the prevalent error started by the King James Version (KJV)'s misidentification of "Joshua" as "Jesus" in Hebrews, chapter 4, when Jesus was not before David to make the "good news" of entering the Sabbath the "gospel" of Jesus, when the gospel of Jesus was not available to "Joshua" who first heard the "good news" in the desert before David.

For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. (Hebrews 4:2-8 KJV)​

The wrong translation of "gospel" for the phrase the "good news" of entering the Sabbath has influenced wrongly many other Bible translations after the KJV. The newer NKJV fixes the misidentification of Joshua as Jesus but not its effect on the rest of the passage, like the "gospel" (not possible before David), for the phrase, the "good news" of entering the Sabbath, first heard by those that died in the desert.

For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: “So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ” although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.” Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said: “Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts.” For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. (Hebrews 4:2-8 NKJV)​

The "good news" heard by those, like Joshua, who were not allowed to enter the Sabbath by "oath" near the Promised Land with Manna, that Joshua later entered before the seventh day of the week from evening to evening, having been prevented from entering the Sabbath with Manna for 40 years from morning to morning near the Promised Land. The following was the first translation I found unaffected by the error of the KJV. In the passage, "another day" refers to a different day than the one thought for the Sabbath since Joshua: not the seventh day of the week everywhere, but the seventh day of the week of creation remembered in the time zone of creation.

For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:2-8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Brother, this came to my mind, Isaiah 30:21
and when you turn to the right hand, and when you turn to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, “This is the way. Walk in it.”

Do you not believe God can speak directly?

United in one hope.

 

[guevaraj]

Brother, this came to my mind, Isaiah 30:21
and when you turn to the right hand, and when you turn to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, “This is the way. Walk in it.” Do you not believe God can speak directly? United in one hope.

Brother, yes! However, we "do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit", they must speak according to the guarantied word of God from the beginning through the prophets. You "know God" by knowing His word from the beginning through the prophets. Again, to "test them", you must have a correct translation of the Bible in your language.

Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world. This is how we know if they have the Spirit of God: If a person claiming to be a prophet acknowledges that Jesus Christ came in a real body, that person has the Spirit of God. But if someone claims to be a prophet and does not acknowledge the truth about Jesus, that person is not from God. Such a person has the spirit of the Antichrist, which you heard is coming into the world and indeed is already here. But you belong to God, my dear children. You have already won a victory over those people, because the Spirit who lives in you is greater than the spirit who lives in the world. Those people belong to this world, so they speak from the world’s viewpoint, and the world listens to them. But we belong to God, and those who know God listen to us. If they do not belong to God, they do not listen to us. That is how we know if someone has the Spirit of truth or the spirit of deception. (1 John 4:1-6 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

Brother, if you are saying that God did not write his laws on anyone's heart until modern times, then we definitely disagree. United in waiting for the coming of the Lord Jesus.

Brother, the word "rest" is used in the Bible to refer to two different rests in different contexts: day-rest and soul-rest. Only the day-rest is found in the message of Hebrews 3 and 4, referring to the rest of God on the seventh day of creation, the Sabbath "rest", ready since God made the world. This day-rest is different from the second soul-rest not referenced in this message. Those who "first heard" this "good news" of how to enter the Sabbath and were not allowed to enter the Sabbath for 40 years in the desert near the Promised Land did not enter the day-rest during those 40 years, that Joshua later entered at an earlier time than the Seventh day in the Promised Land but wrongly assumed this earlier time was the seventh day. I summarize the two rests below:

1. The day-rest of God on the seventh day of creation prepared since God made the world.
2. The soul-rest of the faster forgiveness of our High Priest in heaven compared to the slow animal sacrifices in the earthly temple "copy" for the forgiveness of sins.

There are two different uses of the word rest to be had after Jesus, when only one was available before Jesus for those since Joshua that were not allowed to enter during the 40 years in the desert, the day-rest on the Sabbath, that we are called to enter into in the new covenant corrected from the human tradition since Joshua.

So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:6-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, yes! However, we "do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit", they must speak according to the guarantied word of God from the beginning through the prophets. You "know God" by knowing His word from the beginning through the prophets. Again, to "test them", you must have a correct translation of the Bible in your language.

Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world. This is how we know if they have the Spirit of God: If a person claiming to be a prophet acknowledges that Jesus Christ came in a real body, that person has the Spirit of God. But if someone claims to be a prophet and does not acknowledge the truth about Jesus, that person is not from God. Such a person has the spirit of the Antichrist, which you heard is coming into the world and indeed is already here. But you belong to God, my dear children. You have already won a victory over those people, because the Spirit who lives in you is greater than the spirit who lives in the world. Those people belong to this world, so they speak from the world’s viewpoint, and the world listens to them. But we belong to God, and those who know God listen to us. If they do not belong to God, they do not listen to us. That is how we know if someone has the Spirit of truth or the spirit of deception. (1 John 4:1-6 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Brother, definitely test anyone who claims to speak for God.

Reading the Bible is one way to gain knowledge about God. Here is another way:
The heavens proclaim the glory of God.
The skies display his craftsmanship.

2

Day after day they continue to speak;
night after night they make him known.
Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 19 - New Living Translation

United in serving God shoulder to shoulder.

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, the word "rest" is used in the Bible to refer to two different rests in different contexts: day-rest and soul-rest. Only the day-rest is found in the message of Hebrews 3 and 4, referring to the rest of God on the seventh day of creation, the Sabbath "rest", ready since God made the world. This day-rest is different from the second soul-rest not referenced in this message. Those who "first heard" this "good news" of how to enter the Sabbath and were not allowed to enter the Sabbath for 40 years in the desert near the Promised Land did not enter the day-rest during those 40 years, that Joshua later entered at an earlier time than the Seventh day in the Promised Land but wrongly assumed this earlier time was the seventh day. I summarize the two rests below:

1. The day-rest of God on the seventh day of creation prepared since God made the world.
2. The soul-rest of the faster forgiveness of our High Priest in heaven compared to the slow animal sacrifices in the earthly temple "copy" for the forgiveness of sins.

There are two different uses of the word rest to be had after Jesus, when only one was available before Jesus for those since Joshua that were not allowed to enter during the 40 years in the desert, the day-rest on the Sabbath, that we are called to enter into in the new covenant corrected from the human tradition since Joshua.

So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:6-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Brother, that is a beautiful scripture! We know that God promised that the Holy Spirit would guide us into all truth
“There is so much more I want to tell you, but you can’t bear it now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future.
Bible Gateway passage: John 16 - New Living Translation

United in praying Even so come, Lord Jesus.

 

[Bob S]

Hi Bob S,

Good. Me too.





Jesus said it. Do you suppose that if He meant "the Sabbath was made for the Jews" that He would've said that? I think so.

Thinking does not make it so spark

The word anthropos (which is translated as "human beings") is inclusive language, not exclusionary. So taking this inclusive language and retasking it to be exclusionary is reading into the text something which is not there (eisegesis).

Seems very exclusive when we look at history and find that even today much of the Earth' population has not an inkling of knowledge of Saturday being special. As far as I know of all the artifacts man has discovered there is not an inkling of mankind showing they had any knowledge of Sabbath. Some nations had an eight-day week. Some may have not even recognized such a cycle.

Looking strictly at what Mark 2:27 says you don't have the latitude to make such a sweeping statement. That said, let's just go on to acknowledge that this is an example of an argument from silence fallacy. Your silence argument is addressed by noting several things:

1. The Sabbath is first discovered in Genesis 2:1-3. To claim that it is not the Sabbath is to be ignorant of what the the Sabbath is and the fact that Jesus said it was "MADE for human beings." One translation says, "CREATED for humans". So for you to insist that this "Sabbath" which Jesus says was "created for humans" was put into effect at some time other than when things were actually "created" and/or "made" seems implausible, improbable and irrational. (For a more thorough response, see my thread titled, "Creation Sabbath Origin")

All the Genesis account offers us is that God rested from His creation. It does not tell us anything about a perpetual repeat of resting and to tell others it does seem deceiving.

1. To insist on a command for the Sabbath in the book of Genesis is not consistent or coherent and here's why. There is no command against murder, yet God forewarned Cain that "SIN" was "lurking at [his] door" desiring to have him. Guess what God told him he should do with this desire? He said, "you MUST MASTER IT." After Cain murdered his brother God punished him. Why? Did Cain really not know what sin was? Did he not know it was a sin to murder his brother? There was no recorded command prohibiting this action, so do you likewise believe Cain was punished for something he didn't know about? If you don't have a problem with Cain being punished for committing murder then you should have no issue with there being no command regarding the Sabbath in Genesis. Cain obviously knew murder was wrong otherwise God's conversation with him about sin is meaningless.
   [*]

   There were absolutely no absolution for breaking a law dealing with morality. Throughout the Old Testament people were excused when breaking the Sabbath which was a ritual law. Man is born with a sense of right and wrong. Man has never been born with the desire to keep a day Holy. Keeping days has to be taught.

The Bible says, "sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law." If there was no law" in Genesis then what was God referring to when He told Cain that "sin is crouching at your door"? It's apparent that the law was known based on the facts that A) God is not arbitrary. B) God tells Cain that he is to be the "master" of "sin," as opposed to letting sin master him. C) Sin is the transgression of the law. So any mention of "sin" in Genesis is not an arbitrary discussion of an intangible concept.

I agree that Cain knew right from wrong, but that does not prove that He kept the Sabbath. You can rationalize all you want, but proving you point is another thing.

Here we discover the cognitive dissonance you are going through. Perhaps subconsciously you realize that resting one day in seven is necessary for human beings and realize that God wants His creatures to rest.

Are you claiming something that just might be something you are subject ? I believe you disapprove strongly of my beliefs. I never said it is necessary nor do I subconsciously think it is necessary one day out of seven. Most people work an eight-hour day, have rest breaks and machinery to do much of the labor. We have sixteen hours to rest mentally. By the way, there were two laws in the fourth commandment. One was to labor six days and the other was to rest one day. Rest did not mean one must attend a church or gather together.

Your issue appears to be with the fact that this one day in seven has been selected by God and is not left for you to arbitrarily decide for yourself.

Absolutely, why would any thinking person want to subject to the laws that the Israelites were commanded to keep. They failed miserably, so what makes you believe you can do any better? God gave the Israelites a new covenant that relieved them of all the ritual requirements. Paul wrote you foolish Galatians.... They were being put under the old covenant laws like those today that think like the ones persuading the Galatians. Keeping Sabbath is not a salvational requirement, it never was and certainly isn't now. Your prophet has added to scripture. Abraham was not saved because he kept some laws.

God only blessed one day. God only made one day holy.

Now you are on the beam. That is all the account says.

That day is not left open for you or anyone else to change.

Why is then that you believe it was the start of a seven-day cycle?

It was blessed and MADE holy for "human beings."

That certainly isn't what it is telling us and there is not any indication anyone kept it Holy.

It's not really that big of a leap from where you are with your above acknowledgement to accepting what you've been fighting against for so many years (i.e. that "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God.").

The Seventh-day WAS....

Adam and Eve were told not to eat from one specific tree in the Garden. They were not given the latitude to choose from which tree they would not eat. They could not provide any legitimate excuse to God for why they shouldn't be punished because they chose not to eat from another tree and ate from the one they were commanded not to eat. Such an explanation wouldn't make their transgression any less sinful. You cannot rationalize your way around the fact that the Sabbath was made for "human beings." If you are a "human being," then the Sabbath was made for you.

Yes, the Sabbath WAS made for man. Col 2 tells us it is now a Shadow. 2Cor 3 tell us it was done away.

Or it could refer back to the actual origin of the Sabbath in Genesis 2:1-3.

God made that day Holy for Himself my friend.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Icyspark]

This post is also contentious. Of course you quote scripture to say you are right and other are wrong as has been done for a very long time with many people other than yourself. Are you educated on all the different PoV or simply selective in what you look into?

Hi Jesse Dornfeld,

Most people don't just love to be corrected and shown they are wrong. But guess what? The Bible says we are to correct people when they advocate false beliefs.

Most people don't just love being rebuked when they are wrong. But guess what? The Bible says we are to rebuke people so that we don't share in their guilt.

2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction.​

So what do you think? Are you in agreement with Paul's admonition above? If I'm believing and teaching false beliefs should you not correct me with the hope of bringing me back to sound doctrine? In writing to Timothy Paul urged him to "command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer." He later wrote, "Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers." How are people to be saved from false doctrine unless it is exposed to the light of truth?

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
Am I posting with "I am right and once again you are wrong"?
I choose to post what the Bible says instead of "hey you are wrong"

This post is also contentious. Of course you quote scripture to say you are right and other are wrong as has been done for a very long time with many people other than yourself. Are you educated on all the different PoV or simply selective in what you look into?

The statement above appears to directly oppose the method of Christ in Mark 7:7-13 where it is Christ that shows how to debunk flawed doctrines/traditions in the church magesterium of his day -- using the "sola scriptura" testing model.

The very model you claim to be in error.

Your argument above amounts to "if you recognize that the Bible supports the position that you are taking -then that proves you are wrong". IT makes no sense.

 

[BobRyan]

Thinking does not make it so spark

even so.. we still have to say that thinking is a great start.

 

[BobRyan]

Seems very exclusive when we look at history and find that even today much of the Earth' population has not an inkling of knowledge of Saturday being special.

Most of the world does not accept the triune Godhead or Christ as Savior or the Bible as the Word of God to man.

Is this really how you test doctrine?

Have you considered "sola scriptura testing" of doctrine?

 

[Bob S]

Hi Jesse Dornfeld,

Most people don't just love to be corrected and shown they are wrong. But guess what? The Bible says we are to correct people when they advocate false beliefs.

Most people don't just love being rebuked when they are wrong. But guess what? The Bible says we are to rebuke people so that we don't share in their guilt.

2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction.​

So what do you think? Are you in agreement with Paul's admonition above? If I'm believing and teaching false beliefs should you not correct me with the hope of bringing me back to sound doctrine? In writing to Timothy Paul urged him to "command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer." He later wrote, "Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers." How are people to be saved from false doctrine unless it is exposed to the light of truth?

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

Exactly spark. I have been criticized over and over for spreading the good news to Sabbath observers that no one is under the old covenant ritual system given only to the Israelites. I will continue to correct the faulty doctrine that all mankind is somehow are still bound to Torah.

By the way, I thought we agreed to have a more friendly debate, so on July 29 I challenged your post to me. Why have you, so far, not posted a reply?

 

[HIM]

11th reason. Jesus prophesied we would be until He comes.


This is to important for those who profess Christ and such a eye opener not to share repeatedly.

Let's take a look at Matthew. From the KJV Chapter 24 speaks of the tribulation and also the Sabbath. In Matt 24:20-31 Jesus speaks of the Sabbath being kept BY HIS FOLLOWS (US) through the destruction of the Temple in 70AD up to His Second coming.

VERSES 20 THROUGH 31 TALK OF THIS. AND VERSE 20'S WARNING to pray THAT our FLIGHT DUE TO THE PERSECUTION NOT BE IN THE WINTER NOR OR THE SABBATH DAY IS CONNECTED TO THIS.

How do we know?

By His use of the words For, And, Then, For, Behold, Wherefore, For and and in verses 21- 31 where it states the Saints are gathered. All those words are connectives, they connect what is about to be said to what was previously said.

So Are the Apostles around today to experience the tribulation and see the second coming of our Lord?

Have the elect been gathered together?
No, so this warning to pray that our flight not be in the winter nor Sabbath Day IS FOR US ALSO or those who will be blessed to see that glorious day when we the Saints are gathered together to be with the forever more AFTER the tribulation that is said to be like none before.

Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other

 

[Bob S]

Eleven solid reasons Sabbath observance is not a requirement under Jesus new and better covenant.

The Genisis account didn't include Adam and Eve. All we know is that God rested from creating one day and made that one day Holy. There is nothing to indicate it was a perpetual cycle

Sabbath observance did not start until after crossing the Red Sea. While Israelites were escaping Egypt there is no account of them stopping to observe a day. Ceremonial can be broken. Laws dealing with morality cannot.

The Deut 5 account of reiterating thew ten commandments mentions that the covenant was made for them and not their ancestors.

The covenant with its Sabbath command was never given to any other nation. Only Israel was subject to it and the other 612 commands of the covenant. (613 is derived from Jewish scholars)

Jesus never commanded gentiles to observe days, weeks and years.

Jesus' apostles never taught gentiles to observe days.

Jesus appointed ambassador; Paul was adamant in all his writings that no one is under Torah. He wrote in 2Cor 3 that the ten commandments, which had the weekly Sabbath command was done away, KJV. Other versions tell us the ten were transitory, meaning they were temporary.

Paul wrote in Col 2 that no one is to judge others concerning what we eat or drink, keeping feast days, new moon celebrations and Sabbath. He wrote that those things were shadows and the reality is Jesus.

Paul also wrote in Eph 2 that Jesus ended the law (Torah) in order to bring gentiles and Jews into one group.

1Jn 3 tells us we belong to the truth if we believe the one God sent and keep His commands. John tells us His command is to love others as He commands.

Paul wrote in Gal3 criticizing the Galatians for allowing some to convince them to believe they had to keep Torah.

 

[Icyspark]

Thinking does not make it so spark

Hi Bob S,

So you think.

Seems very exclusive when we look at history and find that even today much of the Earth' population has not an inkling of knowledge of Saturday being special. As far as I know of all the artifacts man has discovered there is not an inkling of mankind showing they had any knowledge of Sabbath. Some nations had an eight-day week. Some may have not even recognized such a cycle.

Your opening comment is interesting and ironic in light of what you're writing here. Of course you realize that the opening post addresses this contention in reason #10 why I'm a Sabbatarian?

10. The Sabbath in Languages of the World.
Did you know that there are flood traditions around the world? From Africa to Asia and Australia, from Europe to North and South Americas, the story of a world wide flood is a part of the tradition of the peoples in these areas. This is as one would expect for such a universally destructive event.

But did you also know that the word "Sabbath" can be found in various languages all around the world? This too is what one would expect if the Sabbath was instituted on the seventh day of creation. Just like Noah and the other seven survivors were witnesses to the flood, Adam and Eve would've been witnesses of the first Sabbath and Adam was around for 930 years to share his eye witness account to his progeny.

Here are a few languages that use the word Sabbath for the seventh day of the week:

Greek: Sabbaton (Sabbath)
Latin: Sabbatum (Sabbath)
Spanish: Sábado (Sabbath)
Portuguese: Sabbado (Sabbath)
Italian: Sabbato (Sabbath)
French: Samedi (Sabbath day)
High German: Samstag (Sabbath)
Prussian: Sabatico (Sabbath)
Russian: Subbota (Sabbath)
Congo Africa: Sabbado or Kiansbula (Sabbath)​

These are a few examples from our modern languages which still identify the seventh day as the Sabbath. There are a number of ancient languages which also do the same thing. The Babylonian language—dating back to 3800 BC (or shortly after the flood)—identifies the seventh day as "Sa-ba-tu" or Sabbath. Exactly what one would expect to find embedded in this Earth's recorded history.

You might want to consider what God says about rejecting knowledge:

Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
Because you have rejected knowledge,
I will reject you from serving as my priest.
Since you have forgotten the law of your God,
I will also forget your sons.​

Don't go claiming that there is "not an inkling of knowledge of Saturday being special." You know that's not true and appears to be an overt rejection of knowledge.

All the Genesis account offers us is that God rested from His creation. It does not tell us anything about a perpetual repeat of resting and to tell others it does seem deceiving.
1. There were absolutely no absolution for breaking a law dealing with morality. Throughout the Old Testament people were excused when breaking the Sabbath which was a ritual law. Man is born with a sense of right and wrong. Man has never been born with the desire to keep a day Holy. Keeping days has to be taught.

Again, this is a rejection of knowledge. I'm sure you're familiar with the story of the man caught collecting sticks on the Sabbath? Was he "excused when breaking the Sabbath"? Um, no.

Numbers 15:32-36
Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.

Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.​

According to your rationale, "There were absolutely no absolution for breaking a law dealing with morality," you'd have to conclude that your premise affirms rather than denies the Sabbath as "dealing with morality." You don't just get to arbitrarily exclude something which doesn't align with your predetermined beliefs.

I agree that Cain knew right from wrong, but that does not prove that He kept the Sabbath. You can rationalize all you want, but proving you point is another thing.

I'm pretty sure my point is based on the word of God. Your points are based on conjecture minus appeal to Scripture.

Cain knew it was a SIN to murder his brother. Apparently you're willing to blindly accept that with no prior information about what defines sin and any previously revealed prohibition about murder. That is not a consistent or coherent belief. You don't get to blindly accept a prohibition against murder without any information detailing such, but then insist that the Sabbath must have a specific command implementing it. The Sabbath is spelled out right there in Genesis 2:1-3. All the elements that comprise what makes the Sabbath are there (rest, blessing, seventh day, holy, creation), yet you and others deny what is patently obvious. Your denial of the obvious makes God implementing something which He says was "made for the good of human beings" something which He appealed to two thousand years later as the foundation for why He gave the fourth commandment. How bizarre is that?

God made that day Holy for Himself my friend.

And Jesus disagrees with you: "And Jesus concluded, 'The Sabbath was made for the good of human beings; they were not made for the Sabbath.' " No where does Scripture say God made the day for Himself. That's adding to the Scriptures and you know God also commands not to do that.

A holy God doesn't need to make a day holy for Himself.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Bob S]

↑

Thinking does not make it so spark

Hi Bob S,

So you think.
Just a fact spark.


↑

Seems very exclusive when we look at history and find that even today much of the Earth' population has not an inkling of knowledge of Saturday being special. As far as I know of all the artifacts man has discovered there is not an inkling of mankind showing they had any knowledge of Sabbath. Some nations had an eight-day week. Some may have not even recognized such a cycle.

Your opening comment is interesting and ironic in light of what you're writing here. Of course you realize that the opening post addresses this contention in reason #10 why I'm a Sabbatarian?
No, I didn't realize it did. Good to know you think it is interesting.
↑
10. The Sabbath in Languages of the World.
Did you know that there are flood traditions around the world? From Africa to Asia and Australia, from Europe to North and South Americas, the story of a world wide flood is a part of the tradition of the peoples in these areas. This is as one would expect for such a universally destructive event.
Well, that is interesting, but the topic is the Sabbath. Unless you have proof of their knowledge of Sabbath my statement stands. All we know is that God gave the Sabbath to one nation on Earth. The Aborigines for instance were not aware of that event. So much for the Torah being written on our hearts, huh.

But did you also know that the word "Sabbath" can be found in various languages all around the world? This too is what one would expect if the Sabbath was instituted on the seventh day of creation. Just like Noah and the other seven survivors were witnesses to the flood, Adam and Eve would've been witnesses of the first Sabbath and Adam was around for 930 years to share his eye witness account to his progeny.
Yes, I am aware that a few languages used the word. How about the remainder of languages???. Just because some used the word does not mean that they observed the day as being Holy. Traditions survive hundreds of years. Certainly, if some group had been observing a special day it would have profound importance. Please give proof that any of the people of those nations were Sabbath observers.

Here are a few languages that use the word Sabbath for the seventh day of the week:

Greek: Sabbaton (Sabbath)
Latin: Sabbatum (Sabbath)
Spanish: Sábado (Sabbath)
Portuguese: Sabbado (Sabbath)
Italian: Sabbato (Sabbath)
French: Samedi (Sabbath day)
High German: Samstag (Sabbath)
Prussian: Sabatico (Sabbath)
Russian: Subbota (Sabbath)
Congo Africa: Sabbado or Kiansbula (Sabbath)
Is there any evidence of any of those nations observing Sabbath? My previous point of some nations using an eight-day calender would put a clinker in trying to prove the Sabbath is written on our hearts thus everyone has a choice to make.

]These are a few examples from our modern languages which still identify the seventh day as the Sabbath. There are a number of ancient languages which also do the same thing. The Babylonian language—dating back to 3800 BC (or shortly after the flood)—identifies the seventh day as "Sa-ba-tu" or Sabbath. Exactly what one would expect to find embedded in this Earth's recorded history.
Click to expand...
You might want to consider what God says about rejecting knowledge:
So now you are accusing me of rejecting knowledge. I never said the word was not in some languages. It seems you love gloating over writing something of which you have no knowledge.

Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
Because you have rejected knowledge,
I will reject you from serving as my priest.
Since you have forgotten the law of your God,
I will also forget your sons.[/QUOTE]
If I were one to use scripture to put someone down, I certainly could use it to describe a lack of acceptance of facts other present.

Don't go claiming that there is "not an inkling of knowledge of Saturday being special." You know that's not true and appears to be an overt rejection of knowledge.
If what I believe is not true then please provide some history of any nation other than Israel keeping the seventh-day holy. Prove I am wrong otherwise stop making false accusations.

↑

All the Genesis account offers us is that God rested from His creation. It does not tell us anything about a perpetual repeat of resting and to tell others it does seem deceiving.
1. There were absolutely no absolution for breaking a law dealing with morality. Throughout the Old Testament people were excused when breaking the Sabbath which was a ritual law. Man is born with a sense of right and wrong. Man has never been born with the desire to keep a day Holy. Keeping days has to be taught.

Again, this is a rejection of knowledge. I'm sure you're familiar with the story of the man caught collecting sticks on the Sabbath? Was he "excused when breaking the Sabbath"? Um, no.
I assume the man was an Israelite or live within the jurisdiction of the Torah. Funny it was such a sin back then, but now Sabbath observers can get away with most anything and the Law doesn't apply. Um, just a thought.

Numbers 15:32-36
Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.

Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.

According to your rationale, "There were absolutely no absolution for breaking a law dealing with morality," you'd have to conclude that your premise affirms rather than denies the Sabbath as "dealing with morality." You don't just get to arbitrarily exclude something which doesn't align with your predetermined beliefs.
Sorry you have come to that conclusion. Actually, the Sabbath command does not deal with morality, it is a ritual command sandwiched between the other commands that do deal with morality. Every command God gave Israel was moral verses being immoral, but some dealt with ceremony. I believe, if I am not mistaken, your church teaches that the ceremonial laws of the old covenant have been done away. For instence, Adventists do not keep new moon celebrations or feast days. The church deems them to be ceremonial, but since the ceremonial weekly Sabbath is sandwiched between commands that deal with morality it arbitrarily deems it the same as the other nine. And, of course, the church uses the writings of their prophet as canon and she didn't differenciate. she set the standards for her flock.
↑

I agree that Cain knew right from wrong, but that does not prove that He kept the Sabbath. You can rationalize all you want, but proving you point is another thing.

I'm pretty sure my point is based on the word of God. Your points are based on conjecture minus appeal to Scripture.

Cain knew it was a SIN to murder his brother. Apparently you're willing to blindly accept that with no prior information about what defines sin and any previously revealed prohibition about murder.
What defines sin, it is not loving others as Jesus loves us. He loves us so very much that He gave up His life on a cruel cross to save His children

That is not a consistent or coherent belief. You don't get to blindly accept a prohibition against murder without any information detailing such, but then insist that the Sabbath must have a specific command implementing it. The Sabbath is spelled out right there in Genesis 2:1-3. All the elements that comprise what makes the Sabbath are there (rest, blessing, seventh day, holy, creation), yet you and others deny what is patently obvious. Your denial of the obvious makes God implementing something which He says was "made for the good of human beings" something which He appealed to two thousand years later as the foundation for why He gave the fourth commandment. How bizarre is that?
Man is born with a sense of right and wrong. We do not need to look at a couple of stones to know how to treat our fellow man. We are obviously not born with the instinct to keep a day and unless you somehow can prove that one living soul ever observed the Sabbath that God, after the Israelites crossing the Red Sea, gave to only them, anything you propose is just smoke.

God made that day Holy for Himself my friend.

And Jesus disagrees with you: "And Jesus concluded, 'The Sabbath was made for the good of human beings; they were not made for the Sabbath.' " No where does Scripture say God made the day for Himself. That's adding to the Scriptures and you know God also commands not to do that.

A holy God doesn't need to make a day holy for Himself.
Since you have preconceived beliefs, it is very possible that you wouldn't recognize that indeed God did bless that ONE day and He did it for Himself. God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work.

The ball is now in your court spark. Are you able to get it back over the net? I hope, if you are, you will do it without putting your opponent down. Remember our agreement?

 

[Icyspark]

Hi Bob S,

So you think.
Just a fact spark.

Hi Bob S,

• FACT: You make the claim that the Sabbath is only for the Jews.
• FACT: Jesus says counteracts your private interpretation and plainly says the Sabbath was made for human beings.

Those are the facts. You "think" your opinion counts as fact, but sorry to tell you, it doesn't.

10. The Sabbath in Languages of the World.
Did you know that there are flood traditions around the world? From Africa to Asia and Australia, from Europe to North and South Americas, the story of a world wide flood is a part of the tradition of the peoples in these areas. This is as one would expect for such a universally destructive event.
Well, that is interesting, but the topic is the Sabbath. Unless you have proof of their knowledge of Sabbath my statement stands. All we know is that God gave the Sabbath to one nation on Earth. The Aborigines for instance were not aware of that event. So much for the Torah being written on our hearts, huh.

But did you also know that the word "Sabbath" can be found in various languages all around the world? This too is what one would expect if the Sabbath was instituted on the seventh day of creation. Just like Noah and the other seven survivors were witnesses to the flood, Adam and Eve would've been witnesses of the first Sabbath and Adam was around for 930 years to share his eye witness account to his progeny.
Yes, I am aware that a few languages used the word. How about the remainder of languages???. Just because some used the word does not mean that they observed the day as being Holy. Traditions survive hundreds of years. Certainly, if some group had been observing a special day it would have profound importance. Please give proof that any of the people of those nations were Sabbath observers.

I'm pretty sure even if you found the word for seventh day of the week being Sabbath in every last one of the languages of the world that you'd claim it was still only for the Jews. Let's just review your prior claim that we are currently examining:

Seems very exclusive when we look at history and find that even today much of the Earth' population has not an inkling of knowledge of Saturday being special. As far as I know of all the artifacts man has discovered there is not an inkling of mankind showing they had any knowledge of Sabbath. Some nations had an eight-day week. Some may have not even recognized such a cycle.​

• FACT: You insist that "there is not an inkling of mankind showing they had any knowledge of Sabbath."
• FACT: The languages of the world disprove this premise.
• FACT: You don't acknowledge your failed premise but move the goal posts to distract from your failure.

QUESTION: Is it true that there is "not an inkling of mankind showing they had any knowledge of the Sabbath?

Here are a few languages that use the word Sabbath for the seventh day of the week:

Greek: Sabbaton (Sabbath)
Latin: Sabbatum (Sabbath)
Spanish: Sábado (Sabbath)
Portuguese: Sabbado (Sabbath)
Italian: Sabbato (Sabbath)
French: Samedi (Sabbath day)
High German: Samstag (Sabbath)
Prussian: Sabatico (Sabbath)
Russian: Subbota (Sabbath)
Congo Africa: Sabbado or Kiansbula (Sabbath)
Is there any evidence of any of those nations observing Sabbath? My previous point of some nations using an eight-day calender would put a clinker in trying to prove the Sabbath is written on our hearts thus everyone has a choice to make.

So basically, what I'm seeing you implying is that these different nations from all over the world felt strongly enough about the word Sabbath that they were inclined to name the seventh day of the week in honor of something they didn't observe? That is a weak response to something which contradicts your personal belief. You brazenly insisted that "there is not an inkling of mankind showing they had any knowledge of Sabbath." Now that your insistent premise has been exposed you're tenaciously clinging to it by dismissing FACTS based on incoherent excuses (e.g. "is there any evidence of any of those nations observing the Sabbath?"). I'd love to hear your explanation for why these nations chose to title their seventh day using what your private interpretation has concluded is a day only for the Jews? Why are these nations tying themselves to a Jewish holy day?

These are a few examples from our modern languages which still identify the seventh day as the Sabbath. There are a number of ancient languages which also do the same thing. The Babylonian language—dating back to 3800 BC (or shortly after the flood)—identifies the seventh day as "Sa-ba-tu" or Sabbath. Exactly what one would expect to find embedded in this Earth's recorded history.

You might want to consider what God says about rejecting knowledge:
So now you are accusing me of rejecting knowledge. I never said the word was not in some languages. It seems you love gloating over writing something of which you have no knowledge.

Hmm. Sounds like you're being hypocritical in castigating me for noting that you shouldn't be rejecting knowledge by claiming I "have no knowledge." Is it not a FACT that you rejected knowledge regarding your insistence that "there is not an inkling of mankind showing they had any knowledge of Sabbath." That is a blatant rejection of knowledge. You know that's not true, yet you rejected the knowledge of the truth and plowed ahead with your grossly negligent insistence. That's a fact.

Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
Because you have rejected knowledge,
I will reject you from serving as my priest.
Since you have forgotten the law of your God,
I will also forget your sons.
If I were one to use scripture to put someone down, I certainly could use it to describe a lack of acceptance of facts other present.

My premise along this line is very simple. See if you can follow my line of reasoning:

• FACT: You brazenly insisted that "there is not an inkling of mankind showing they had any knowledge of Sabbath."
• FACT: You have addressed these Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian, not only on this forum but also on another forum.
• FACT: You were aware that languages of non Jewish nations around the world use the word Sabbath to name the seventh day of the week.
• FACT: You rejected the above knowledge and made your claim to the contrary.

I'm not putting you down. I'm correcting you as the Bible tells me I should.

Don't go claiming that there is "not an inkling of knowledge of Saturday being special." You know that's not true and appears to be an overt rejection of knowledge.
If what I believe is not true then please provide some history of any nation other than Israel keeping the seventh-day holy. Prove I am wrong otherwise stop making false accusations.

As I noted above, even if I proved to you that all of these other nations were "keeping the seventh-day holy," you'd almost assuredly move on to a new rejection of knowledge.

I await your explanation for why these non Jewish nations elected to name the seventh day of the week after what your private interpretation of the Scriptures insists is a day only for the Jews.

Again, this is a rejection of knowledge. I'm sure you're familiar with the story of the man caught collecting sticks on the Sabbath? Was he "excused when breaking the Sabbath"? Um, no.
I assume the man was an Israelite or live within the jurisdiction of the Torah. Funny it was such a sin back then, but now Sabbath observers can get away with most anything and the Law doesn't apply. Um, just a thought.

This is exactly my point. You just got exposed for rejecting knowledge and you didn't receive the correction and repent of it. You merely attempted to shrug it off. But if you're going to attempt to shrug it off, I'm merely going to shed more light on the FACT that you're continuing to reject knowledge.

Previously you made this audacious claim:

"There were absolutely no absolution for breaking a law dealing with morality. Throughout the Old Testament people were excused when breaking the Sabbath which was a ritual law."​

I referred you to the story of the man put to death for collecting sticks on the Sabbath. Did you acknowledge your failed premise? No. Or rather, did you try to spin your nonsense into some other direction? Yes. What does how ppl apply the law now have to do with your original assertion? Nothing.

To address your "just a thought," nonsense. Did you happen to actually read the Numbers passage I posted? If you did you'd notice that in this particular case the ppl brought the transgressor to Moses, then Moses brought the case before God. This is known as a theocracy--a system of government in which God is the final authority. God said to the man to death.

• FACT: You claim that "There were absolutely no absolution for breaking a law dealing with morality."
• FACT: I showed you that God put this Sabbath transgressor to death, fulfilling your basic premise regarding morality.
• FACT: You said, "Throughout the Old Testament people were excused when breaking the Sabbath which was a ritual law."
• FACT: The example of the man gathering sticks who was put to death proves the opposite of your privately held belief.

So what did you do when confronted with these particular facts? You attempted to spin the available information in another direction and hoped I wouldn't hold your feet to the fire. Being corrected isn't enjoyable and I'm sure you feel put upon when I draw attention to your errant beliefs, but God calls for me to correct misinformation posing as biblical truth.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Bob S]

Hi spark, your claim that since 100 languages (Googled how many) use Sabbath to name the seventh-day proves the Sabbath was/is a requirement for all mankind. Well, I also looked up how many languages are or have been used in the World and guess what, there are a total of 7117 different languages. 100 out of 7117 isn't as convincing as you wish it were, huh. I have to assume that the 100 nations also knew that God rested on the last day of the week, so they named the day rest day. It is also very obvious that God didn't give them laws or commands on how to observe the rest day. (I challenged you to give even one example of any proof that any nation ever observed the commanded Sabbath like Israel had and all you did was to make an excuse.) The other 7007 languages didn't use Sabbath or a derivative in their naming of the days. Some had an eight-day week. We know that for a fact. Hanging your hat on the fact that other languages used Rest as a name of the week to prove your point is like skating on very thin ice water.

All we know is that God gave one nation the Sabbath. It is pure speculation to try to prove that since 100 languages out of 7117 used the word for rest, Sabbath, that anyone except Israel tried to kept it Holy.

Since your post is stooping to the level of nonsense and misnomers, I will not bother with correcting your innuendos.