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Ten Commandments in the Garden of Eden

GDL

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This thread is entitled "Ten Commandments in the Garden of Eden" and is a discussion as to when God's Law was made known. When I say "standard" I'm speaking of God's Law - His standard of righteousness. My apology for not being clearer.

When I looked at your referenced Scripture from Ez28, I looked quickly at the words "blameless" and "wickedness." Here is a lexical definition of the Hebrew word translated as wickedness (the bold highlight is mine):

)1580b) עַוְלָה (±awlâ( injustice, unrighteousness.

)1580c) עַוָּל (±aww¹l( unjust, unrighteous one.

)1580d) עֲוִיל (±¦wîl( unjust one.

The Arabic cognate ±wl means "to deviate." Likewise in Hebrew the basic meaning of this root means to deviate from a right standard, to act contrary to what is right. The root occurs sixty times, with forty of these found in Job (sixteen times); Psalms (thirteen times) and Ezekiel e*leven times): The rest are distributed throughout the prophetic and legal literature.


Here is a lexical definition of the Greek word used in the LXX (again, bold highlighting is mine):

[BDAG] ἀδίκημα
• ἀδίκημα, ατος, τό (Hdt.+; ins, pap, LXX, En; TestJob 37:6; Philo, Joseph., Just., Ath.; Mel., P. 73, 534; 81, 597)

1. a violation of norms of justice, a wrong, crime, misdeed (Aristot., EN 5, 7 τὸ ἄδικον … ὅταν πραχθῇ, ἀ. ἐστιν; Appian, Bell. Civ. 4, 69 §292; Jos., Ant. 3, 321; 5, 234) Ac 18:14; 24:20; Rv 18:5.

2. that which causes harm or injury, mistreatment, pl. (En 13:2; Diod. S. 14, 2, 2; PHal 1, 193) IRo 5:1.—DELG s.v. δίκη. M-M. TW.


My question to you concerned why we're told that this anointed cherub was once seen as blameless and then with wickedness? These are words frequently used in relation to being in conformity or non-conformity with God's Law. You can see in the Hebrew root the main sense of deviating from a right standard.

God's standard is a good catch-all, but what standard: His Law or???? There is extensive published exegetical research discussing when exactly God's Law was made known. Those who go with Moses and Paul's instruction regarding the Law coming 400+ years after the Abrahamic promise have trouble with Genesis 26:5 and Abraham keeping God's Law way before Moses. Others have detailed how 9 or 10 of the 10 Commandments can be seen in Genesis. The work @SabbathBlessings is detailing seems to be similar to some of this work I mention.

IMO it's very difficult to consider God's Righteous standards based in God's righteous character not being made known to His creatures from the beginning. I and others I've read who study and ponder such things do acknowledge that some of this is argued from silence.

I appreciate your continuation. I assure you I can keep up with you if I choose to continue. I can also ask questions if I'm not certain I understand you. I'm also not adverse to acknowledging someone having greater understanding than I do. As I continue to draw breath, I continue to desire to learn His Word. Some topics are more important to me than others.
 
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GenemZ

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Without there being any law... Before Lucifer fell? God's righteousness and integrity was always manifested in God as the standard for angels to emulate.

When Lucifer deviated and stepped outside of doing what is righteous? God did not instantly condemn Lucifer. Instead, God condemned Lucifer's actions. Then began the process of God disciplining Lucifer as a son. God disciplined Lucifer as a father would a son.

He made Lucifer hurt to show Lucifer that he was not as powerful as he assumed he was. God disciplined while reasoning, as to why Lucifer needed to repent. To "change his thinking."

Only after sins became defined could any law be made manifest. To Satan and the angels apparently God's law was given orally.....


Will gladly explain if interested.



Grace and peace!
 
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GDL

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No explanation needed based upon your last sentence as this is all I was asking for. God's Law being God's standard of righteousness for His creation based upon God's perfectly righteous character that God constantly and perfectly manifests, was apparently given to Satan and the angels orally. This in essence is the premise of those who do focused studies on God's Law and the reason applied to Abraham keeping God's Law before Moses, most or all of the 10 Commandments being seen in Genesis, and God warning Cain about sin - God gave His Law to His creation orally well before Sinai. The discussion among the studiers of God's Law is what the actual content was before Sinai.

Now, without going back and rereading the @SabbathBlessings OP, it seems there may be a basis for its premise.

Thanks for the discussion.

Does anyone think their ideas through?
Yes, many of us do.
 
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GenemZ

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There was only one law in the Garden of Eden. Only one.

And, they broke it. They were not even told to keep the sabbath.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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There was only one law in the Garden of Eden. Only one.

And, they broke it. They were not even told to keep the sabbath.
The scripture in the OP disagrees and you have not made a compelling argument to dispute it, but we are entitled to our opinions.
 
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GenemZ

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One can make up any theory they wish with just using a key word.
Which is what this OP is.

Here is Revelation 3:14-22

“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation.
I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other!
So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that
you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in
the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful
nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. Here I am! I stand at the
door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that
person, and they with me.
To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was
victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne. Whoever has ears, let them hear what
the Spirit says to the churches.”


Gadzooks! That went way off topic to think the Ten Commandments were in the Garden because someone later was called naked!

Tell me? Were the 10 Commandments also in Job's mother's womb?

At this, Job got up and tore his robe and shaved his head.
Then he fell to the ground in worship and said:
“Naked I came from my mother’s womb,
and naked I will depart.
The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away;
may the name of the Lord be praised.”

In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing."

Job 1:20-22





 
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SabbathBlessings

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Are you claiming this is your proof that God's Ten Commandments have not always been? Lucifer was a covering cherub, meaning he watched over the Ten Commandments- God's law is in heaven Revelation 11:19 and the earthy temple was an exact replica of God's heavenly Temple where God dwells and where God's eternal law resides. If you believe Adam and Eve were free to worship other gods, vain God's holy name, bow to images or break God's holy Sabbath, that's your choice, but Adam and Eve both sinned and broke the very first commandment when they placed their desires (their god) over worshipping God first and man has been following the same path of disobedience ever since. This path separated man from God, God blesses those who keep His commandments at His Second Coming and are reconciled with God Revelation 22:14 while those who choose to place their will over God's we are told are left outside Revelation 22:15, Matthew 7:21-23. I find it amazing that so many people take objection to God's Commandments that God keeps in the Most Holy of His Temple, His will and Testimony written by His own finger, but claim to be followers of God.
 
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GenemZ

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There have been more than one Cherub.

What was guarded in heaven by Lucifer is not the same as to what was guarded in the Ark in Israel.

There are TWO Cherubs over the Ark. Not one. Lucifer is not two angels.

"You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones."
Ezekiel 28:14​


Note: It says he was "a" guardian cherub.

It does not say, "the" guardian cherub!

The Ark had two guardian cherubs to guard the Ark.

If it were to represent the ark in heaven? Only one cherub could be presented.

Why would Lucifer have to guard the Ten Commandments? When the fact, he was that he was a guardian angel before man was created?????

No sin? = no Law.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I‘m not sure where you get I said there was only one cherub covering the ark of the covenant, I never stated that, but Lucifer was one of them until he sinned (broke God’s law) 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7 Ezekiel 28:16 and was thrown out of heaven.
 
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GenemZ

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All Cherubim were guardians. Not only for the ark.

When Satan was thrown out of heaven he fell like lightning to the earth.....
It does not say he was thrown down right after he rebelled.


Ezekiel 28:16

In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence in your midst, and you sinned;
so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God, and I destroyed you, O guardian
cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire."


The Hebrew indicates that Lucifer spread slander and lies against the Lord among the angels! He was selling them his lies!

` By your far-flung enterprises/commerce, you {Satan} were filled with violence/lawlessness
and you sinned."


grace and peace ...........
 
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SabbathBlessings

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All Cherubim were guardians. Not only for the ark.

When Satan was thrown out of heaven he fell like lightning to the earth.....
It does not say he was thrown down right after he rebelled.
I never said Lucifer was zapped out of heaven the moment he sinned, but his sin resulted in him being cast out of heaven. We have a fair God and I trust that. There is a theory that man was created to judge the angels so God could be fair, but that topic is for another thread.
Your commentary does not match the scripture you posted- I do not see where it says all angles were covering the ark. Ezekiel 28:16 is referring to Lucifer.
 
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GenemZ

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Your commentary does not match the scripture you posted- I do not see where it says all angles were covering the ark. Ezekiel 28:16 is referring to Lucifer.
So? Now the Ark was fiery stones?


"So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you,
guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones."

fiery stones = ark?
 
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Richard.20.12

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Here is the problem with the premise of this thread......

There was only one commandment in the Garden. Only one.

If that one commandment had been obeyed?

There would be no ten commandments later on.
But do we know there was only one commandment in the Garden of Eden? They were new on the Earth. God must have had to explain so many things to them as they didn't "grow up" but arrived as full grown adults. Many of those "things" must have been rules and guidelines. Like don't walk near cliffs??? Watch where you walk? Sharp things can hurt you? Heavy things can crush your feet? Basic stuff we take for granted because of our life experience (of walking off cliffs).

We really don't know anything much about the Garden. We don't even know how long they were there. They could have been there for 129 years before they gave in to that fruit. Because Abel had his first child at age 130. Of course we don't know how long pregnancy lasted back then either. They lived about 10 times longer than today and they had their first child at about 5 times older than we do. We just don't know much of anything of life back then.

The original post mentioned Adam and Eve being clothed in white after they realized they were naked (and ashamed of their mistake). Yet Genesis mentions God clothing them in animal skins. Not many animal skins are white as white animals find it exceedingly difficult to hide from predators if there's no snow around.

It's important to separate the literal from the figurative. The Bible has much symbolism which teaches us much. But it's also literal at times. When God says animal skins that's literal. When something is "clothed in light" that is obviously figurative and symbolic. It's also important not to "fill in the blanks" with our own assumptions as facts. They're just possibilities. Nothing more. They may be true and they may not be true. Humility is important when reading the Word.
 
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GenemZ

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They had no need for any knowledge of Good and Evil.

They would roll down nice hills, not off cliffs. No thorns and thistles existed before the fall.
No cuts and bruises. It was a 24 hour "Paradise."

The single command was one for obedience to God. The same test that Satan and his angels failed while in their perfect state.

Without there being any evil existing? There would be zero need to any normal command. Evil would mean anything that could hurt or destroy.

That is how the word is used when God says "He creates evil." When God creates evil it could be some disaster used in judgment.
Or a bee hive someone walks into.
 
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Semper-Fi

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i got this far into your theology

you state ... "we learn that at their creation, God clothed Adam and Eve with glory and honor in garments of light (white), which represented the righteousness of God. So basically, God clothed Adam and Eve just as He and the angels were, in garments of white or light."

the scrip does not say this .... by adding to the scrip you by doing so take away from it ...
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Not in Genesis, but like most books, we don't find every little detail of an entire book on the first page. All of God's Word is for our learning and correction 2 Tim 3:16

Clothing in scripture means righteousness. A few examples:

Job 29:14 “I put on righteousness, and it clothed me;
My justice was like a robe and a turban.

Isa 59:17 He put on righteousness like a breastplate,
And a helmet of salvation on His head;
And He put on garments of vengeance for clothing
And wrapped Himself with zeal as a mantle.

Isa 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the Lord,
My soul shall be joyful in my God;
For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation,
He has covered me with the robe of righteousness,
As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments,
And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

Isa 11:5 Also righteousness will be the belt about His loins,
And faithfulness the belt about His waist.

Psa 132:9 Let Your priests be clothed with righteousness,
And let Your godly ones sing for joy.

When Adam and Eve were created there didn't need clothes because they did not sin they were clothed in God's righteousness but when they sinned is when they realized they were naked as they were no longer clothed in God's righteousness

Gen 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

For those in Christ- when Jesus comes He will take away our fifthly rags

Zac 3:4 He spoke and said to those who were standing before him, saying, “Remove the filthy garments from him.” Again he said to him, “See, I have taken your iniquity away from you and will clothe you with festal robes.”

Which is why before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ washing our robes is the same as those who do God's commandments because those will be clothed in God's righteousness


Rev 3:5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

Rev 22:14
New International Version
Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.


New King James Version
Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
 
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HIM

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I am posting this so I don't forget to read this thread. Looks like it might be interesting SabbathBlessings, thanks for posting
 
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