Teen's Interaction With Transgender Woman in YMCA Locker Room Sparks Heated Debate

[Neogaia777]

This is a question of gender roles, gender biology, and gender identity, basically, and whether or not one should be able to pick and choose in these areas in a free society, etc...

Gender roles are determined by society pretty much basically, and are subject to change with changes in society, etc...

Gender biology is something many say you can't, or shouldn't be able to choose or change, etc, but that certain modern day advances in medicine/drugs, and the medical/surgical fields nowadays, seem to be able to maybe give us that option maybe nowadays, etc. I don't think we should ever be doing this with children, etc.

Gender identity is the main problem here, does nature sometimes make mistakes in this area, etc, and should this be a choice or option for people in today's modern day societies, etc...?

If someone born a boy says that they feel like a girl, or thinks they might be a girl, or vice-versa, etc, do or does others opinions about that invalidate that feeling, etc...? And if it does not, then should that then, be a choice for them, etc...? And should others in society be forced to accept or acknowledge them that way, etc...?

As far as the biology goes, I don't think that children who are not yet adults yet should be our "testing grounds" for what we can do with it on or in this area nowadays, etc... No drugs or surgeries on or in this area for kids, as it could just be a temporary phase also anyway, etc, and there is really no way to know that for sure, until they are older, etc... I think the very same rules that we have for tobacco, tattoos, firearms, inappropriate contentography, and voting, and the like, etc, should also most definitely apply here also, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Ana the Ist]

Even then, if you have a place with only two restrooms/changing rooms, and someone has some parts that are associated with both, we're still left with the same quandary.

For instance, Blaire White
View attachment 327204

Blaire has "parts" that are associated with both genders. Either some girls are seeing a penis, or some boys are seeing breasts...in both scenarios, the absolutists on the "against" side are going to have a problem with it.

On the flip side, the absolutists on the "for" side who act appalled that someone would be put off by someone with chest hair and a 5 o'clock shadow in the Women's room, isn't a reasonable position either. We have multiple generations of women and girls who were raised in an environment where it's abnormal to see someone who looks like a dude in their changing facility, and it's not reasonable to expect them to be "cool with it, effective immediately" just because some social activists want to advance, what they see as social progress, at a rate much faster than it's organic pace.

What's the reason why that person can't use the men's room?

 

[Ana the Ist]

This is a question of gender roles, gender biology, and gender identity, basically, and whether or not one should be able to pick and choose in these areas in a free society, etc...

Gender roles are determined by society pretty much basically, and are subject to change with changes in society, etc...

Gender biology is something many say you can't, or shouldn't be able to choose or change, etc, but that certain modern day advances in medicine/drugs, and the medical/surgical fields nowadays, seem to be able to maybe give us that option maybe nowadays, etc. I don't think we should ever be doing this with children, etc.

Gender identity is the main problem here, does nature sometimes make mistakes in this area, etc, and should this be a choice or option in today's modern day societies, etc...?

If someone born a boy says that they feel like a girl, or thinks they might be a girl, or vice-versa, etc, do or does others opinions about that invalidate that feeling, etc...? And if it does not, then should that then, be a choice for them, etc...? And should others in society be forced to accept or acknowledge them that way, etc...?

As far as the biology goes, I don't think that children who are not yet adults yet should be our "testing grounds" for what we can do with it or in this area nowadays, etc... No drugs or surgeries on or in this area for kids, as it could just be a temporary phase also anyway, etc, and there is really no way to know that for sure, until they are older, etc... I think the very same rules that we have for tobacco, tattoos, firearms, inappropriate contentography, and voting, and the like, etc, should also most definitely apply here also, etc...

God Bless!

I don't know what gender refers to....

Can you describe it as a distinct concept?

For example I can seem to replace gender roles with the word "behavior"


And gender biology with "biology"

But what is gender identity?

 

[Pommer]

I don't know what gender refers to....

Can you describe it as a distinct concept?

For example I can seem to replace gender roles with the word "behavior"


And gender biology with "biology"

But what is gender identity?

Wow you ask a lot of questions for someone who always knows the answers.

 

[Neogaia777]

I don't know what gender refers to....

Can you describe it as a distinct concept?

For example I can seem to replace gender roles with the word "behavior"


And gender biology with "biology"

But what is gender identity?

Right now gender means to us right now as what a person is initially born as biologically at first, etc, which many say comes with a certain psychological predisposition psychologically, or maybe perhaps behaviorally, etc. But do some exhibit a different type of behavior in that area as is most commonly (right now) associated with it classically, etc...? And if they do, then what should all of us (individually, collectively, as a society, etc) do with or about that maybe, etc...?

If men and women, or male and/or female are truly no different in any kind of way, then maybe eventually we will be able to completely abolish these distinctions someday, but right now, there still seems to be some inherent differences at least still maybe, etc...?

But I don't know if that is just simply programming, or is only due to environment, etc, or is truly reflective of something that goes very much more deeper than that maybe, etc...?

And I guess these are the kinds of questions we are trying to answer, or are struggling with as a society right now, etc...?

Personally, I am a man, and a heterosexual male, and I can be very unemotional at times, hard, cold, cruel, a real jerk sometimes, etc, prone to feeling angry or aggressive a lot, very "short" with people sometimes, not as understanding or compassionate as I maybe sometimes should be, etc, and so on and so forth, etc, but is that because of my "maleness", or my "testosterone" maybe, or is it maybe due to something else maybe, etc...? Something that I might not have been automatically predisposed to from the moment I was born maybe, etc...?

And I guess I really don't have all of the real true answers to all of those questions, etc...? But it's maybe something we can discuss here maybe, etc...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Can we determine a difference in the thinking processes between a male and a female that people might just automatically be born with inherently or automatically, etc...?

(I wonder this due to my own thoughts and thinking processes, etc) (which seems to very much more different than most of, what we would or might call "females", inherently, etc)...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Did I decide or choose at some point that I was this way, and then just went with it or stuck with it, and never saw a reason to change it (and still don't), or was it something I was just born with inherently, etc...? And is maybe something I cannot choose to change even if I wanted to inherently, etc...?

God Bless!

 

[SilverBear]

Yes it was.

Being Transgender No Longer Considered A Mental Illness, Says World Health Organization

The World Health Organization (WHO) will no longer consider being transgender to be a mental illness.

www.forbes.com

Transgender identity is considered a mental illness by WHO. But that may soon change.

According to the World Health Organization, being transgender is a mental illness. But that could soon change, as WHO prepares a new edition of the International Classification of Diseases (ICD), i…

www.chicagotribune.com

yes in 2018 the World Health Assembly gained the three quarters majority it needed to remove gender nonconformity from the listing of medical conditions. Of course the World Health Assembly is a political organization whose delegate represent their countries government stance on such things On June 20th of 2018 there were no longer enough governments in the world enacting policies for the imprisonment, torture and/or execution of transgendered people to keep the policy on the UN's books. I imagine that it was a sad day for you.

 

[Neogaia777]

A child is not at a mature enough age or stage yet, not mentally, psychologically, or anything else, to truly know what they are for sure yet. A more understanding parent can maybe let them try anything on for a little bit maybe, but we shouldn't be allowing them to have gender reassignment surgeries, or take hormonal altering drugs, or do or make or choose whatever else is involved with trying to make or force that change biologically, until they are of age, or are fully adults yet, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Bradskii]

What's the reason? What does gender describe exactly?

How do you manage to have such specific views about gender when you don't even know what it describes? Didn't you think to check? To save you the bother...

68 Terms That Describe Gender Identity and Expression

Language and labels are important parts of understanding your gender — as well as knowing how to affirm and support that of other folks! We break it down.

www.healthline.com

Many people use the terms “gender” and “sex” interchangeably. However, gender and sex actually refer to two separate things.

Gender is an identity — your personal sense of who you are. The term can also refer to socially constructed categories that relate to what it means to be a man or a woman.

Sex refers to biological and physiological characteristics. Your genitals, hormones, and chromosomes all relate to your sex.

Although many are taught that there are only two sexes — male and female — that isn’t true. Some people are intersex or have a difference of sexual development (DSD).

Gender and health

Gender and health

www.who.int

Gender interacts with but is different from sex, which refers to the different biological and physiological characteristics of females, males and intersex persons, such as chromosomes, hormones and reproductive organs. Gender and sex are related to but different from gender identity. Gender identity refers to a person’s deeply felt, internal and individual experience of gender, which may or may not correspond to the person’s physiology or designated sex at birth.

Gender

All humans are born with biological characteristics of sex, either male, female, or intersex. Gender, however, is a social construct and generally based on the norms, behaviors, and societal roles expected of individuals based primarily on their sex. Gender identity describes a person’s...

www.psychologytoday.com

All humans are born with biological characteristics of sex, either male, female, or intersex. Gender, however, is a social construct and generally based on the norms, behaviors, and societal roles expected of individuals based primarily on their sex. Gender identity describes a person’s self-perceived gender, which could be male, female, or otherwise.

I hope that's cleared up any confusion about what you are actually discussing.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

What's the reason why that person can't use the men's room?

Because the same parents who would object to Blaire White in the women's room for "waist down" reasons, would be complaining just as much about Blaire in the men's room for "waist up" reasons.

 

[SilverBear]

A child is not at a mature enough age or stage yet, not mentally, psychologically, or anything else, to truly know what they are for sure yet. A more understanding parent can maybe let them try anything on for a little bit maybe, but we shouldn't be allowing them to have gender reassignment surgeries,

They aren't

or take hormonal altering drugs,

Puberty blockers are prescribed in this case to allow time for the maturation you are talking about to take place.

Medications, any medication, should not be given lightly but needs to be individually decided on between doctor and patient

 

[rjs330]

They are both "biology" it's just that one is better understood and straight forward than the other because brains are complicated and harder to access with the reductive sciences.

That's because there is a problem in the brain that does not recognize the biological SE of the person. It's a brain disorder in some people. In othersz particularly children, it's just a temporary thing as kids work through their typical teenage identity issues. But it goes away as they grow up. For others who are life long trans, it's a brain disorder. Like all other brain disorders such as schezophrenia, bi-polar or dilusional behavior.

 

[rjs330]

They aren't

Puberty blockers are prescribed in this case to allow time for the maturation you are talking about to take place.

Medications, any medication, should not be given lightly but needs to be individually decided on between doctor and patient

In this case the poor patient is a child who doesn't really understand what those drugs are going to permanently do to them. They are not capable of making those kinds of judgement calls. Their brains are not fully developed. We all know this. The drugs chemically castrate the kid and cause other kinda of physical problems that are life long. This is horrible and kids should not be subjected to this kind of thing. It's sick and twisted to do that to a child who can't really comprehend the consequences to their actions.

 

[rjs330]

Because the same parents who would object to Blaire White in the women's room for "waist down" reasons, would be complaining just as much about Blaire in the men's room for "waist up" reasons.

Rightfully so. She should not be exposing herself/himself to any kid. Boys should not be exposed to a naked breasts in the locker room and girls shouldn't be exposed to any penis in their locker room. Blair CHOSE this path and Blair is going to have to deal with the consequences of that choice. Blair should not expect it demand that everyone else deal with the consequences of Blair's choices.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Because the same parents who would object to Blaire White in the women's room for "waist down" reasons, would be complaining just as much about Blaire in the men's room for "waist up" reasons.

I dunno....there might be complaints.

 

[Ana the Ist]

How do you manage to have such specific views about gender when you don't even know what it describes? Didn't you think to check? To save you the bother...

68 Terms That Describe Gender Identity and Expression

Language and labels are important parts of understanding your gender — as well as knowing how to affirm and support that of other folks! We break it down.

www.healthline.com

Many people use the terms “gender” and “sex” interchangeably. However, gender and sex actually refer to two separate things.

Gender is an identity — your personal sense of who you are.

Something made up? A sense of self?

A feeling?

Sorry to get so specific but an "identity" is such an vague word to define an already vague word that telling me "gender" is an "identity" is a bit like telling me an "area" is a "space".

You haven't actually distinguished it from anything else.

The term can also refer to socially constructed categories that relate to what it means to be a man or a woman.

That complicates things.

Sex refers to biological and physiological characteristics. Your genitals, hormones, and chromosomes all relate to your sex.

Uh huh.

Although many are taught that there are only two sexes — male and female — that isn’t true. Some people are intersex or have a difference of sexual development (DSD).

Right but "intersex" isn't a gender....right? You're talking about genetic anomalies that cannot typically reproduce.

Gender and health

Gender and health

www.who.int

Gender interacts with but is different from sex, which refers to the different biological and physiological characteristics of females, males and intersex persons, such as chromosomes, hormones and reproductive organs. Gender and sex are related to but different from gender identity.

Gender identity is different from.....gender. Ok. It's nice to know what these things aren't but can you tell me what they are? No negative definitions please.

Gender identity refers to a person’s deeply felt, internal and individual experience of gender, which may or may not correspond to the person’s physiology or designated sex at birth.

A feeling.

Gender

All humans are born with biological characteristics of sex, either male, female, or intersex. Gender, however, is a social construct and generally based on the norms, behaviors, and societal roles expected of individuals based primarily on their sex. Gender identity describes a person’s...

www.psychologytoday.com

All humans are born with biological characteristics of sex, either male, female, or intersex. Gender, however, is a social construct and generally based on the norms, behaviors, and societal roles expected of individuals based primarily on their sex. Gender identity describes a person’s self-perceived gender, which could be male, female, or otherwise.

I hope that's cleared up any confusion about what you are actually discussing.

We're talking about a feeling. A feeling directly related to biological sex. As your definition explains.

An emotional feeling. Correct?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Wow you ask a lot of questions for someone who always knows the answers.

Well I'm just trying to parse out what the discussion is.

I get that a lot of people are super cool with not knowing anything about what they're discussing but it's almost impossible to hope to find a good answer here without understanding what it is we're talking about.

 

[rjs330]

yes in 2018 the World Health Assembly gained the three quarters majority it needed to remove gender nonconformity from the listing of medical conditions. Of course the World Health Assembly is a political organization whose delegate represent their countries government stance on such things On June 20th of 2018 there were no longer enough governments in the world enacting policies for the imprisonment, torture and/or execution of transgendered people to keep the policy on the UN's books. I imagine that it was a sad day for you.

I love hink it was a sad day for transgender people. When it was removed as an illness they no longer treated it as a psychological issue and started treating it as physical alteration issue, which doesn't really deal with the underlying psychological problems of being delusional about what you are.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Because the same parents who would object to Blaire White in the women's room for "waist down" reasons, would be complaining just as much about Blaire in the men's room for "waist up" reasons.

Alright....did we ever get to the bottom of this penis question?

I read your first article claiming this person still had a penis as of about a year ago.

Then I saw posters claiming without evidence this person didn't have a penis.

Then it was a lot of back forth between posters who didn't seem to either read the article or require evidence to call either side a liar.

I didn't want to read 11 pages of that so....was the issue ever settled? Did someone have any article confirming genitalia or not?