Taking questions on Embedded Age Creation

[The Engineer]

Evolution just does not happen...if u can't produce results in a control enviroment, then is isn't science...only a worldview.

Except it did happen. Richard Lenski observed that E. Coli bacteria underwent a beneficial mutation. He even had a nice talk with Andrew Schlafly about it.

I'm also pretty sure the fruit flies did change. Maybe they didn't spontaneously turn into dinosaurs, but that's not what evolution would predict, anyway. What evolution would predict is that they changed, and that's what happened.

 

[SkyWriting]

Ya'l made that fruit fly turn into anything other than a fruit fly yet?

How many generations has it been now? More than even the oldest carbon dated rock would allow, I bet.

Evolution just does not happen...if u can't produce results in a control enviroment, then is isn't science...only a worldview.

Those are scientific definitions, and as such, it may evolve into a bald eagle and God may consider it the same "Kind". We don't know what Kinds are by God's standards so there is no point in defending "Kinds". God made em, that's what we know.

There were indeed fewer species in the Garden, and on the Ark than we see today, so evolution must happen to some extent.

Species do change, so evolution does happen. If there ARE some boundaries, it would take tens of thousands of years to find out exactly what they are. Now consider that my dad was given his name before DNA was.

 

[SkyWriting]

Except it did happen. Richard Lenski observed that E. Coli bacteria underwent a beneficial mutation. He even had a nice talk with Andrew Schlafly about it.

I'm also pretty sure the fruit flies did change. Maybe they didn't spontaneously turn into dinosaurs, but that's not what evolution would predict, anyway. What evolution would predict is that they changed, and that's what happened.

There seem to be hard limits to how much a species can change, which is what his ultimate point is, and what Creationists predict science to discover.

 

[SkyWriting]

This is nothing new...

Omphalos hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All unsubstantiated guesses based purely on mental masturbation.

What people do in the privacy of their homes is not ours to judge.

 

[SkyWriting]

So much evil has been perpetrated "In God's name" by people who I seriously doubt if they even believe in their respective religions.

Even more has been done without using God's name as a cover story.

 

[selfinflikted]

There seem to be hard limits to how much a species can change, which is what his ultimate point is, and what Creationists predict science to discover.

The only "hard limit" I can see is time. We have been studying evolution for how many years? And how many generations does it take to see significant change (speciation) in a population?

 

[mzungu]

Ya'l made that fruit fly turn into anything other than a fruit fly yet?

How many generations has it been now? More than even the oldest carbon dated rock would allow, I bet.

Evolution just does not happen...if u can't produce results in a control enviroment, then is isn't science...only a worldview.

Considering that they managed to breed a fruitfly that no longer breeds with the fruit flies that it originated from is evidence enough! But what's the use of knocking on a deaf man's door?

 

[Loudmouth]

Ya'l made that fruit fly turn into anything other than a fruit fly yet?

Why would we need to? The common ancestor of humans and chimps was an ape, and humans and chimps are still apes. The common ancestor of bears and humans was a mammal, and humans and bears are still mammals. You don't evolve into something new. You are what your ancestors were. No matter how much fruit flies evolve they will still be fruit flies because their ancestors were fruit flies.

Evolution just does not happen...if u can't produce results in a control enviroment, then is isn't science...only a worldview.

That is a serious misrepresentation of the scientific method. Evolution is the hypothesis. You test hypotheses. Reproducible data refers to experiments used to test the hypothesis.

I would work on your understanding of the scientific method before criticizing scientific theories.

 

[SkyWriting]

The only "hard limit" I can see is time. We have been studying evolution for how many years? And how many generations does it take to see significant change (speciation) in a population?

2-3. Completely dependent on the amount of stress applied. If you cull the population to a handful, practically overnight changes.

“Striking differences in head size and shape, increased bite strength and the development of new structures in the lizard’s digestive tracts were noted after only 36 years,



Great question!

Check out "wolf & elk" evolution.

 

[Loudmouth]

There seem to be hard limits to how much a species can change, which is what his ultimate point is, and what Creationists predict science to discover.

So show us these limits. Let's use humans and chimps. Of the DNA differences seen between humans and chimps, which could not produced by random mutation and natural selection? Can you give us an example? If not, then I can only assume that you are pushing empty assertions.

 

[SkyWriting]

So show us these limits. Let's use humans and chimps. Of the DNA differences seen between humans and chimps, which could not produced by random mutation and natural selection? Can you give us an example? If not, then I can only assume that you are pushing empty assertions.

There is no such thing as random mutation. All variances are guided by biological factors.

 

[Tiberius]

There is no such thing as random mutation. All variances are guided by biological factors.

The mutation is random. Whether it remains in the population's gene pool and is passed on to future generations is not random.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

There seem to be hard limits to how much a species can change, which is what his ultimate point is, and what Creationists predict science to discover.

This limit has never been demonstrated, and no Creationist actually does any research to explore this prediction.

If anything, we've found that evolution can work faster and more drastically than expected. It is being reproduced at the molecular level in bacteria and viruses.

Let me stop you before you claim there is a distinction between macro and microevolution -- the distinction is inconsequential. The mechanism is the same, and both have been demonstrated.

 

[Loudmouth]

There is no such thing as random mutation.

Yes, there is. Experiments have proven it:

Luria–Delbrück experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://jb.asm.org/content/63/3/399.full.pdf

All variances are guided by biological factors.

That's like saying that the lottery is not random because it is guided by physical factors. The facts are that mutations are random with respect to fitness.

You also failed to even address what I said. Here it is again:

Of the DNA differences seen between humans and chimps, which could not produced by random mutation and natural selection? Can you give us an example?

 

[Tiberius]

You also failed to even address what I said. Here it is again:

Of the DNA differences seen between humans and chimps, which could not produced by random mutation and natural selection? Can you give us an example?

Oh, lemme have a go!

The correct answer is NONE.

There are NO differences in the DNA between Chimps and Humans that could not have been produced by random mutation and Natural Selection.

 

[serge546]

I'll bite and lower myself to the OP's level.

You are wrong. I am right. I have no evidence. Doesn't matter if you do.

Hence, embedded gibberish is incorrect. Next topic.

 

[Jamin4422]

The mutation is random. Whether it remains in the population's gene pool and is passed on to future generations is not random.

That is kinda like water water everywhere and not a drop to drink. You got millions and billions of mutations and yet you have failed to find even one benificial mutation. The mutation theory is an act of desperation if I have ever seen one. It is ALL they got, so they have no choice but to go with it.

 

[Jamin4422]

There is no such thing as random mutation.

There is frame shift though and that in and of itself is pretty amazing. But it's also evidence for ID. As the Bible says we are fearfully and wonderfully made.

All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.



Each little flower that opens,
Each little bird that sings,
He made their glowing colors,
He made their tiny wings

 

[Split Rock]

That is kinda like water water everywhere and not a drop to drink. You got millions and billions of mutations and yet you have failed to find even one benificial mutation. The mutation theory is an act of desperation if I have ever seen one. It is ALL they got, so they have no choice but to go with it.

Lets see if you can admit you are wrong. Here's a documented beneficial mutation that provides a weed with resistance to the herbicide glyphosate (Roundup).. from an old thread of mine.
http://www.christianforums.com/t3309652/

 

[Tiberius]

That is kinda like water water everywhere and not a drop to drink. You got millions and billions of mutations and yet you have failed to find even one benificial mutation. The mutation theory is an act of desperation if I have ever seen one. It is ALL they got, so they have no choice but to go with it.

Failed to find any beneficial mutations?

You mean like the samples listed HERE?

In the future, please spend five seconds doing a search on Google and avoid embarrassing yourself.