Taking Questions on Christianity

AV1611VET

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I actually think the earth is pretty awesome,
Including Hell, which is at its center?
RoseCrystal said:
... and maybe our focus should be on taking better care of her ...
No argument there.

I'm the type of person that won't throw tissue paper on the ground.

I will throw a banana peel or apple core out of the car window; but discarding trash is out of the question big time.
RoseCrystal said:
... instead of looking up to the sky for imaginary friends in an attempt to explain to ourselves why we are here.
There are no "imaginary friends" in the sky.

(Except on December 24th. :D)
RoseCrystal said:
And a desirable afterlife exists in other belief systems too, not just Christianity.
Those are made up.
 
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RoseCrystal

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Including Hell, which is at its center?No argument there.

I'm the type of person that won't throw tissue paper on the ground.

I will throw a banana peel or apple core out of the car window; but discarding trash is out of the question big time.There are no "imaginary friends" in the sky.

(Except on December 24th. :D)Those are made up.
Including Hell, which is at its center?No argument there.
Says you, again with no actual evidence.

Those are made up.
Of course they are, except yours, yours is true.....
 
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AV1611VET

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Including Hell, which is at its center?No argument there.
Says you, again with no actual evidence.
Well I'm glad I don't have any; outside of the Bible, of course.

What will suffice as evidence? some fire and brimstone?

Maybe some heat detected at the center of the earth?
RoseCrystal said:
Those are made up.
Of course they are, except yours, yours is true.....
Study what is called: diabolical mimicry.
 
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RoseCrystal

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Well I'm glad I don't have any; outside of the Bible, of course.

What will suffice as evidence? some fire and brimstone?

Maybe some heat detected at the center of the earth?Study what is called: diabolical mimicry.
LOL, that can't be the best you've got, literally the worst excuse ever used by Christians to explain away the reality of pre-christian history. Ok mate, no worries
 
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AV1611VET

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LOL, that can't be the best you've got, literally the worst excuse ever used by Christians to explain away the reality of pre-christian history. Ok mate, no worries
:scratch:
 
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AV1611VET

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I appear to have not been clear enough for you, I'll try again
diabolical mimicry, literally the worst excuse ever used by Christians to explain away the reality of pre-christian history.
I don't know what you mean by "explain away the reality of pre-Christian history."

Do you mean, for example, I use diabolical mimicry to claim King Saul never existed? or that the Jews never marched around Jericho? or whatever?

Why would I want to do that?

I have a pre-Christian history book that says otherwise: the AV1611 King James Bible -- God's autobiography.
 
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RoseCrystal

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diabolical mimicry was used by the early Christians to explain the embarrassing similarities between Jesus and previous 'sons of god' like Mithra and Horus who pre-date Jesus. Justin Martr and Tertullian used this claim, explaining that 'the devil' knew that Jesus was coming so he sent 'fake sons of gods' to 'test the faith of Christians'.

The reality I'm talking about is that Jesus looks like he is derived from these older sons of gods, 'diabolical mimicry' was used to explain the problem away. The devil made the 'fake sons of god' because he knew Jesus was coming, the devil did it to 'throw humanity in confusion so they wouldn't accept Jesus'.

Basically, the claim is the devil copied Jesus before he existed to mess with us.... Sure he did.

Here's a quote from Tertullian "The devil, whose business is to pervert the truth, mimics the exact circumstances of the Divine Sacraments. He baptises his believers and promises forgiveness of sins from the Sacred Fount, and thereby initiates them into the religion of Mithras. Thus he celebrates the oblation of bread and brings in the symbol of the resurrection. Let us, therefore, acknowledge the craftiness of the devil who copies certain things of those that be Divine".

Since you were the one who brought up the term of diabolical mimicry I assumed you understood this? It's been around as a Christian apologetic tactic since about 150AD.

What do you think the term means in relation to Christianity? I can give you some links to read if you are still confused by it.
 
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AV1611VET

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Since you were the one who brought up the term of diabolical mimicry I assumed you understood this?
I'm familiar with the term, not who coined it.

It's a good term, and quite descriptive of how the devil works.

After all, Lucifer said ...

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

That's his "Declaration of Mimicry" in a nutshell.
RoseCrystal said:
... been around as a Christian apologetic tactic since about 150AD.
Maybe the term has, but in practice, it's been around since the Garden of Eden.
RoseCrystal said:
What do you think the term means in relation to Christianity?
There was a man who once captured a Leprechaun and forced him to reveal where his pot of gold was hidden. The Leprechaun took the man deep into the woods and pointed to the trunk of a tree and said it was buried there. The man went back to his house to get a shovel, but first he tied a yellow ribbon around the tree to mark it, and told the Leprechaun not to touch it; and the Leprechaun promised he wouldn't.

The man then went home, got a shovel, and came back.

In his absence, the Leprechaun tied yellow ribbons around every tree in the forest.

That is diabolical mimicry in a nutshell.
 
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RoseCrystal

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I'm familiar with the term.

your responses to my posts #64 and #66 (your responses are #65 and #67) would suggest you didn't understand at all.

In fact it wasn't until I explained it to you and the context it originated in that you gave your little leprechaun explanation. (and lets not forget it's you who brought the term up to begin with)

Which by the way is still not quite right, to fit the context of the term the leprechaun should have put ribbons on all the trees before the man got there, the entire argument for diabolical mimicry is that the devil did these things BEFORE the real deal showed up.

I would suggest studying the early church fathers, I think you'd learn a lot from it.
 
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AV1611VET

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your responses to my posts #64 and #66 (your responses are #65 and #67) would suggest you didn't understand at all.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
RoseCrystal said:
In fact it wasn't until I explained it to you and the context it originated in that you gave your little leprechaun explanation. (and lets not forget it's you who brought the term up to begin with)
I have been bringing that term up for 9½ years now.

Here's my earliest example: Post 431
RoseCrystal said:
Which by the way is still not quite right, to fit the context of the term the leprechaun should have put ribbons on all the trees before the man got there, the entire argument for diabolical mimicry is that the devil did these things BEFORE the real deal showed up.
If by "real deal showing up," you're talking about Jesus' first advent, then I agree to some extent.

A lot of false religions were started in the 19th century.

As I said, diabolical mimicry was hatched by Lucifer in the Garden of Eden.
 
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RoseCrystal

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Sorry for the misunderstanding.I have been bringing that term up for 9½ years now.

Here's my earliest example: Post 431If by "real deal showing up," you're talking about Jesus' first advent, then I agree.

As I said, diabolical mimicry was hatched by Lucifer in the Garden of Eden.
No, it wasn't Lucifer lied, tempted and tricked Eve in the garden of Eden, it's not the same thing at all. He didn't present Eve with a 'fake Jesus' in the garden.

The devil didn't use diabolical mimicry until the creation of the pagan gods that 'mimic' Jesus thousands of years before Jesus was born. Diabolical mimicry is specific to those circumstances. In the world of Christianity that is what it means. The devil mimicked Jesus before he was born to confuse the world by sending fake 'sons of gods'. That is the Christian definition of diabolical mimicry - Nothing at all to do with the garden of Eden or your out of context leprechaun analogy.

It applies to the devil creating Horus, Mythras, etc. The term (and excuse of) diabolical mimicry was invented and used by the early church fathers for that specific purpose, to defend Christ against pagan gods he appeared to be 'copying' as well as the sacraments used by those religions that 'mimic' those of Christianity.

You can't just change what terms mean and try to apply them to arguments they don't fit with. That's just bad apologetics.

You are using the term out of context. But as you say, you had no idea where it originated from and why it came about in the first place. Perhaps you should do some study and research the topic, Justin Martyr's “The 1st Apology to the Greeks” would be a good place to start.
 
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AV1611VET

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No, it wasn't Lucifer lied, tempted and tricked Eve in the garden of Eden, it's not the same thing at all. He didn't present Eve with a 'fake Jesus' in the garden.
I didn't say a word about Lucifer tricking Eve in the Garden of Eden.

I said diabolical mimicry was thought up in the Garden of Eden, when Lucifer said, "I will be like the Most High."

And if Lucifer said it elsewhere, and not in the Garden of Eden, then so be it.
RoseCrystal said:
It applies to the devil creating Horus, Mythras, etc. The term (and excuse of) diabolical mimicry was invented and used by the early church fathers for that specific purpose, to defend Christ against pagan gods he appeared to be 'copying' as well as the sacraments used by those religions that 'mimic' those of Christianity.
Okay with you if I do the same thing then?

I've said here on CF many times that I think Zeus, Thor, Neptune and a host of other gods were real entities in the past.

Specifically they were fallen angels masquerading as gods.

I also believe Paul Bunyan was a giant who really existed as well.
RoseCrystal said:
You are using the term out of context.
If "diabolical mimicry" doesn't set well with you, give me a better term to use and I'll consider it. How's that? :)
 
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RoseCrystal

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I didn't say a word about Lucifer tricking Eve in the Garden of Eden.

I said diabolical mimicry was thought up in the Garden of Eden, when Lucifer said, "I will be like the Most High."


I also believe Paul Bunyan was a giant who really existed as well.If "diabolical mimicry" doesn't set well with you, give me a better term to use and I'll consider it. How's that? :)
It's not the same, but if you want to call a pink elephant a giraffe, knock yourself out. But do be aware that people who actually understand what it means and the context its supposed to be used in are not going to agree with how you are using it
 
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RoseCrystal

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I've said here on CF many times that I think Zeus, Thor, Neptune and a host of other gods were real entities in the past.

Specifically they were fallen angels masquerading as gods.
That's the closest you've come to using the term correctly, assuming the gods you mention are in fact mimicking Jesus enough for it to appear Jesus copied them. (dying and rising from the dead for example)

I think its time to move on from this conversation. We are going to have to agree to disagree
 
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RoseCrystal

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@AV1611VET if it helps at all, you have reminded me how much I loved Christian apologetics (I took my faith and apologetics very seriously before my recent faith crisis, defending the Christian faith was something I was very passionate about) so I guess you can take that as a big win! I guess I wouldn't be so passionate about it if it meant absolutely nothing to me would I? And one of the things I really dislike about Christianity is the division between the different groups (baptist, catholic, Calvinist), who's right, who was first, etc, etc. I don't want to be like that.

I don't want to argue with you, I'm sure you're very sincere in your efforts to bring people to what you believe is the truth, Jesus Christ and Christianity. I suppose I'm really angry, everything I believed in has just been taken away from me, I shall make an effort to be more kind. I miss it, I just don't believe it anymore.
 
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TheTrueWay

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Belief seems to hinge on the bible being trustworthy and God having ultimately authored it, being trustworthy too.

Are all the contradictions and inconsistencies due to inadequacies in translation?

(I'd be very interested to know if original Hebrew and Greek texts had similar contradictions and inconsistencies.)
 
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AV1611VET

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@AV1611VET if it helps at all, you have reminded me how much I loved Christian apologetics (I took my faith and apologetics very seriously before my recent faith crisis, defending the Christian faith was something I was very passionate about) so I guess you can take that as a big win! I guess I wouldn't be so passionate about it if it meant absolutely nothing to me would I? And one of the things I really dislike about Christianity is the division between the different groups (baptist, catholic, Calvinist), who's right, who was first, etc, etc. I don't want to be like that.

I don't want to argue with you, I'm sure you're very sincere in your efforts to bring people to what you believe is the truth, Jesus Christ and Christianity. I suppose I'm really angry, everything I believed in has just been taken away from me, I shall make an effort to be more kind. I miss it, I just don't believe it anymore.
Thank you, Rose!

We can't wait for Jesus' return ... to settle all these issues once and for all.
 
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RoseCrystal

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Belief seems to hinge on the bible being trustworthy and God having ultimately authored it, being trustworthy too.

Are all the contradictions and inconsistencies due to inadequacies in translation?

(I'd be very interested to know if the original Hebrew and Greek texts have similar contradictions and inconsistencies.)
From the little I've seen of the Jewish take on translations (which is minimal I've only just started researching it), they aren't impressed at all by the Greek translation of the old testament. They say it has a lot of inaccuracies
 
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