Taking Question on the Creation and/or the Flood

[Nathan Poe]

You interpret this evidence using a method called uniformitarianism (as yesterday - so today), whereas I use the method called catastrophism (unlike yesterday - so not today).

IOW, you invent a magical past to help you reconcile your ideas. Aren't you worried about dad suing you for trademark infringement?

 

[Basket]

IOW, you invent a magical past to help you reconcile your ideas. Aren't you worried about dad suing you for trademark infringement?

From Eyewitness Science: Evolution

(page 16)
A series of catastrophes

Industrial expansion in the 18th century created a need for iron ore and coal, as well as canals for transportation. Mines and excavations went deep into the Earth, which led to great advances in geology. By the early 19th century Abraham Werner (1750-1817) in Germany and William Smith (1769-1839) in the UK had established that rocks are made up of distinct layers called strata. These belonged to particular geological periods and eras, identified by the fossils found in them. Werner thought that there had been a series of catastrophic worldwide floods, each one laying down a layer of rock. It was the abrupt change in fossils from one geological era to another that led Werner and others to formulate these "catastrophe theories." Some identified each flood with a day of creation described in the Bible, but others realized that the rocks must have built up over thousands of years. Later catastrophists, including Frenchman Georges Cuvier (1769-1832), referred to earthquakes and climactic changes, as well as floods. The idea linking these theories was that the Earth had been shaped by unimaginably powerful forces, utterly different from those at work now. The opposite view, uniformitarianism, held that the Earth was built up gradually by everyday forces, such as erosion and deposition (p. 28).

(the book has a bunch of pictures and captions with each picture)

 

[TheOutsider]

II Corinthians 4:3 (But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost;
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, Who is the image of God, should shine unto them. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus sake.
JamesDaJust

What? Are you just quoting random verses at me now? What does that have to do with anything I just said?

 

[brandyn]

So if you like God did it please tell us how an Omnipotent, Omniscient God ends up "Repenting" of His creation and decides to destroy it with a big flood. Did He not know what would happen when He created the place? Did He just blunder? Or did He make this "Good" creation He must have know would become a mess because He likes drowning things? Enquiring minds want to know.

its not the destination but the journey

 

[JamesDaJust]

What? Are you just quoting random verses at me now? What does that have to do with anything I just said?

It may seem that way.
But AV had given you a seed of truth and you appeared to mocking him.
Especially with your #2 quote.
It just so happens that we all have free will.
AV was talking about satan and his angels influx to try to intercede the coming Messiah (JESUS) through the Adamic seedline.

 

[TheOutsider]

It may seem that way.
But AV had given you a seed of truth and you appeared to mocking him.
Especially with your #2 quote.
It just so happens that we all have free will.
AV was talking about satan and his angels influx to try to intercede the coming Messiah (JESUS) through the Adamic seedline.

I wasn't mocking him, I was taking his premise to it's logical conclusion. If Satan is able to lead a rebelion against God and all of Heaven and then come to earth to ruin God's creation then that must mean that Satan has some powers that God is unable to control. QED, God is not omnipotent.

Your verses have absolutely nothing to do with anything I just said.

 

[Basket]

I wasn't mocking him, I was taking his premise to it's logical conclusion. If Satan is able to lead a rebelion against God and all of Heaven and then come to earth to ruin God's creation then that must mean that Satan has some powers that God is unable to control. QED, God is not omnipotent.

Your verses have absolutely nothing to do with anything I just said.

http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=54316870

Maybe you can read this version more easily.

 

[TheOutsider]

http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=54316870

Maybe you can read this version more easily.

Oh, I see now. Instead of actually answering my argument, he decided to insult me by calling me a "blind unbeliever". How enlightening.

 

[JamesDaJust]

Oh, I see now. Instead of actually answering my argument, he decided to insult me by calling me a "blind unbeliever". How enlightening.

Hey, there is only one judge. It was only meant to be a post to show the power of the one who was created with the full pattern.
I never meant to call you anything.
But do tell, are you familiar with the parable of the wheat and the tares?
I shall not mess up AV's thread anymore than I already have.
I apologize.
</IMG>

 

[Basket]

Hey, there is only one judge. It was only meant to be a post to show the power of the one who was created with the full pattern.
I never meant to call you anything.
But do tell, are you familiar with the parable of the wheat and the tares?
I shall not mess up AV's thread anymore than I already have.
I apologize.
</IMG>

Riiight...

Also, I don't think this thread can get much more messed up than it already is.

 

[TheOutsider]

Hey, there is only one judge. It was only meant to be a post to show the power of the one who was created with the full pattern.
I never meant to call you anything.
But do tell, are you familiar with the parable of the wheat and the tares?
I shall not mess up AV's thread anymore than I already have.
I apologize.
</IMG>

I went back and reread that parable for you (it's been forever since I read Matthew). What I see it saying is that while God was "asleep", Satan came down and planted Bad Seeds here on earth and come Judgement Day, God is going to cut down the Bad Seeds and harvest the Good Seeds.

The problem I have issue with is How is God "asleep", so to speak? If God knows that Satan is going to ruin his Creation (omniscience) and has the power to stop Satan (omnipotence) then why did he wait until the Creation is beyond repair? Why does he destory it almost completely with the Flood when he could have stopped it in the first place or repaired it without destorying it?

 

[mpok1519]

look, everyone doesn't even know what perfect is. We have no reasonable perception of what is exactly perfect. Satan might be an intricate part of God's plan to help test people to choose right from wrong.

Whats perfect about that is that there are flaws within the system, allowing for free will to be expressed. Theres nothing perfect about being controlled by God so you do everything in exactly the perfect manner based upon whats 'good' for you. Perfection and imperfection go hand-in-hand, as good cannot exist unless there was something 'bad' to counteract it.

If everything was 'good', and nothing was bad what would we think of death? Birth? As a mundane thing to be taken lightly? Normal and neutral? My guess is as good as yours. Thats why life is such a great thing, because we have the choice to choose whats good, healthy and benefitial for us while also learning from the consequence of making the poorer of the choices.

Of course God's perfect creation has flaws within it. Thats how we can fully appreciate the better parts of it.

 

[AV1611VET]

As someone who claims to seek truth, you would be wise to seek the counsel of people more in the know.

I don't seek the Truth --- I have the Truth - (and He has me). You can have It too, if you'll just ask Him.

Since Answers in Genesis has at least pretended to research the subject, you might want to note them well when they say the water canopy theory is wrong.

Where Answers in Genesis disagrees with the Bible - Answers in Genesis is wrong.

So you're just going to keep saying "Goddidit" all day long?

I can't --- I'm only allowed 2 one-hour sessions per day here.

How poetic. Where were these fountains?

Underground.

By whom? They all died in the Flood, remember?

Except for Noah and his wife, and their three sons, and their wives. Eight in all.

Noah wrote Genesis 6-9, in my opinion.

 

[consol]

AV1611VET,
Are you a creationist?

 

[AV1611VET]

In Genesis God said "let there be light" and he called the light day and the darkness night, later God creates the sun, the moon and stars. What is this light and where is it coming from?

I think the light is the electromagnetic spectrum, with this particular passage referring to the visible part of it.

God indeed created the light, before He created its source --- another blow to scientific paradigms.

This universe did not come into existence by natural cause-and-effect.

 

[Atheuz]

I can't --- I'm only allowed 2 one-hour sessions per day here.

How old are you?

 

[MarcusHill]

How old are you?

He's answered that often enough - he's 53, a Vietnam-era Naval veteran, and he only gets 2 hours at a time because he accesses the web at a public library.

 

[AV1611VET]

How does a perfect creation become imperfect?

By being cursed by the One Who created it.

so Adam and Eve weren't perfect?

In Genesis 1 they were.

Weren't they part of the original perfect creation?

Yes.

And God didn't know this would happen to His perfect creation?

Yes, He did know it would happen.

Did God create Satan or not?

[semantics warning] No --- He created Lucifer.

If He did didn't He know that Satan would mess up His perfect creation.

Satan didn't "mess up" His perfect Creation --- he didn't have the power, or the authority to. God "messed up" His own.

How could a creation with Satan in it be perfect?

It can't --- [semantics warning] --- Satan wasn't in the Creation --- Lucifer was.

Since you claim that the serpent in the garden was Satan does this mean that Satan has to go on his belly and eat dust all the days of his life?

Yes --- as long as Satan tries to use that form (assuming he can today), he will have to eat dust.

Didn't God know that his "sons" would mate with the daughters of men creating the giants in the earth that apparently caused such evil that God was forced (your word) to repent his creation and destroy it with a big flood? How could the sons of a perfect God cause such havok? I guess God didn't raise them very well. But wait! Weren't they part of the original perfect creation? How did they become so bad if they were part of a perfect creation?

[bible]Genesis 6:1-2[/bible]

These "sons of God" were angels --- not men.

[bible]Job 38:6-7[/bible]

By the way who was the mother of these sons of God that made such trouble?

See above answer.

 

[AV1611VET]

Exactly which type of laboratory do you plan to use for testing whether Heaven exists or not?

This one ---

Which experiment could help decide whether salvation comes through works or faith?

The post-mortem experiment.

 

[AV1611VET]

Odd. There are many ancient artifacts dating back to 15,000 BC...

That reminds me of a book I used to have called 2 Minute Mysteries, in which a man tries to sell another man a gold coin dated 50 BC (or something like that), and the potential buyer immediately ascertains the coin is a fake.

How did he know?