Taking Question on the Creation and/or the Flood

[Nathan Poe]

No --- what better way to test things than in the laboratory of the King James Bible?

How about -- anything else?

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Wrong --- "son" doesn't always carry the connotation of "offspring".

The Bible says we will be made sons of God, through adoption.

[bible]Galatians 4:4-6[/bible]

In the case of the angels, I suspect they are referred poetically as sons of God due to the fact that they were directly created by God.

So Genesis is poetry and not literal fact. I agree.

Adam too, has that poetic connotation:

[bible]Luke 3:38[/bible]

Yes --- and therefore it's not a literal interpretation.

So here we have another case where what the Bible clearly states is not literally true.


Originally Posted by Frumious Bandersnatch
So people got STD's from those wicked sons of God?

No --- from each other. Not all the women cohabited with the angels.

So where did STDs come from in the first place? According to your story all the people on earth were direct and fairly recent descendants of Adam and Eve and no one else. So was it Adam or Eve that got clap started or did it pop up in one of their kids or grandkids?

I'm not a YEC.

So you just play one on internet boards? I know you have this totally crazy idea that the earth is 4.5 billion years old even though it was only created 6,000 years ago but I say that anyone who believes that creation occured 6,000 years is a YEC and your characterization of God as a bungling deity who flooded the world in a fit of pique because His botched creation didn't turn out so well and it repenteth Him that He had made it is identical to what I see from YECs.

 

[AV1611VET]

So did He give all those people he drowned with the flood a chance to repent?

Yes ---

120 years to repent.

A visual --- the Ark as it was being constructed.

A visual --- animals miraculously boarding the Ark.

Methuselah's name - (meaning: at his death, it will come).

I like the way one preacher put it:

• You wanna know why Methuselah lived so long? His name signifies something major is coming when he dies --- and here's Noah building an Ark and warning people to repent! I'll bet every time Methuselah even sneezed, he had a handful of doctors at his side!

 

[Nathan Poe]

Yes ---

120 years to repent.

A visual --- the Ark as it was being constructed.

A visual --- animals miraculously boarding the Ark.

So, those who didn't live within sight of Noah were more or less hosed, then, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Yes ---

120 years to repent.

A visual --- the Ark as it was being constructed.

Methuselah's name - (meaning: at his death, it will come).

I like the way one preacher put it:

• You wanna know why Methuselah lived so long? His name signifies something major is coming when he dies --- and here's Noah building an Ark and warning people to repent! I'll bet every time Methuselah even sneezed, he had a handful of doctors at his side!

Show me the verse in Genesis that substantiates that people had a chance to repent and that God ever gave anyone but Noah and his family a chance to be saved from the flood. Tell me how infants and young children could have repented and been saved from the flood when they had nothing to repent.

 

[Steezie]

I knew from the second I saw this thread that it would be a long string of AV dodging, faking, ducking, and basically doing everything possible to avoid an answer.

Now AV you claim that the bible can prove everything you say right.

How about the math behind the flood?

Lock and load!

The United Nations Environment Programme estimates there are 1.4 billion cubic kilometres (330 million mi3) of water available on Earth. Including underground sources.

The highest point on the surface of the Earth is Mount Everest in Nepal. 8,848 meters tall (29,028 feet)

The mean radius of the Earth (Core to sea level) is 6,372,797 meters. With Everest added to that, it comes out to 6,381,645 meters.

The total mass of the hydrosphere of the oceans is about 1.4 × 1021 kilograms, which is about 0.023% of the Earth's total mass.

The volume of the earth in-between the highest and lowest points on earth assuming that the ENTIRE surface is flooded WITH landmasses accounted for is 5x10 to the fifth

Avalible- 1.4 billion cubic kilometers
Needed (To cover the ENTIRE surface)- 5 quadrillion cubic kilometers
Missing- 4.9999986 quadrillion cubic kilometers.

We would need probably nine or ten orders of magnitude more water than we actually have avalible. Even if there were a couple billion cubic kilometers hiding under the surface of the Earth, we would even BEGIN to have enough.

To have that much water on Earth would disrupt the gravity of the Earth and send it tumbling out of its orbit and if by some miracle that didnt happen we would SERIOUSLY mess with the triple point of water which would result in the death of all life as we know it. An ice comet is next to impossible because the water would have to go SOMEWHERE if by some miracle it was able to actually hit the Earth. It wouldnt just vanish once the flood was over. Also the heat from entering the atmosphere (Which hits nearly 3000 degrees Fahrenheit on the space shuttle and probably more on a less aerodynamic object) would probably have vaporized it before it hit the ground.

As you see, it it mathematically IMPOSSIBLE for the ENTIRE surface of the Earth to be covered with water.

My wonderful fiancee helped with the math part If you doubt the math, PM Dysnomia, she'll lay it out.

 

[AV1611VET]

Show me the verse in Genesis that substantiates that people had a chance to repent and that God ever gave anyone but Noah and his family a chance to be saved from the flood.

[bible]Hebrews 11:7[/bible]

[bible]1 Peter 3:20[/bible]

[bible]2 Peter 2:5[/bible]

Tell me how infants and young children could have repented and been saved from the flood when they had nothing to repent.

Infants and young children who didn't know enough to repent are in Heaven now.

And, in my opinion, so are some of those who drowned in the Flood.

 

[AV1611VET]

So, those who didn't live within sight of Noah were more or less hosed, then, wouldn't you agree?

No --- I wouldn't. I'm sure they had ample warning. 120 years is a long time.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

[/size]

[bible]Hebrews 11:7[/bible]

[bible]1 Peter 3:20[/bible]

[bible]2 Peter 2:5[/bible]

None of these verses says that anyone besides Noah and his family were offered the chance to escape the flood on the ark by "repenting".

Infants and young children who didn't know enough to repent are in Heaven now.

And, in my opinion, so are some of those who drowned in the Flood.

Did they perish or not? Obviously they perished without a chance to repent so the verse you quoted before is false.

 

[AV1611VET]

I knew from the second I saw this thread that it would be a long string of AV dodging, faking, ducking, and basically doing everything possible to avoid an answer.

Now AV you claim that the bible can prove everything you say right.

How about the math behind the flood?

Lock and load!

The United Nations Environment Programme estimates there are 1.4 billion cubic kilometres (330 million mi3) of water available on Earth. Including underground sources.

The highest point on the surface of the Earth is Mount Everest in Nepal. 8,848 meters tall (29,028 feet)

The mean radius of the Earth (Core to sea level) is 6,372,797 meters. With Everest added to that, it comes out to 6,381,645 meters.

The total mass of the hydrosphere of the oceans is about 1.4 × 1021 kilograms, which is about 0.023% of the Earth's total mass.

The volume of the earth in-between the highest and lowest points on earth assuming that the ENTIRE surface is flooded WITH landmasses accounted for is 5x10 to the fifth

Avalible- 1.4 billion cubic kilometers
Needed (To cover the ENTIRE surface)- 5 quadrillion cubic kilometers
Missing- 4.9999986 quadrillion cubic kilometers.

We would need probably nine or ten orders of magnitude more water than we actually have avalible. Even if there were a couple billion cubic kilometers hiding under the surface of the Earth, we would even BEGIN to have enough.

To have that much water on Earth would disrupt the gravity of the Earth and send it tumbling out of its orbit and if by some miracle that didnt happen we would SERIOUSLY mess with the triple point of water which would result in the death of all life as we know it. An ice comet is next to impossible because the water would have to go SOMEWHERE if by some miracle it was able to actually hit the Earth. It wouldnt just vanish once the flood was over. Also the heat from entering the atmosphere (Which hits nearly 3000 degrees Fahrenheit on the space shuttle and probably more on a less aerodynamic object) would probably have vaporized it before it hit the ground.

As you see, it it mathematically IMPOSSIBLE for the ENTIRE surface of the Earth to be covered with water.

My wonderful fiancee helped with the math part If you doubt the math, PM Dysnomia, she'll lay it out.

Two things:

1. God could have sent 10 times as much water as He did, and it would still have worked.
2. I'm sure God handled all the "problems" that arose when nature tried to get in the way of His will.

As I have said before --- nature is hostile to God's creation --- but obedient.

[bible]Matthew 8:27[/bible]

 

[AV1611VET]

None of these verses says that anyone besides Noah and his family were offered the chance to escape the flood on the ark by "repenting".

Look again --- Noah was a "preacher of righteousness".

 

[TheOutsider]

Look again --- Noah was a "preacher of righteousness".

He must not have been that good if the only people he could convince was his family.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Look again --- Noah was a "preacher of righteousness".

6:13And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

So God is saying that He will destroy all flesh except Noah and his family so there no chance that anyone else would be saved and no indication anywhere, that Noah, preacher or not, ever told any one to repent so they could join him on the ark.

 

[consol]

I'm posting from the public library --- and I'm only allowed two one-hour sessions per day.

I believe this to be a lie, you are a patient in a hospital,
a mental hospital, that's why you are restricted.

That is the only way to explain your state of mind.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

As I have said before --- nature is hostile to God's creation --- but obedient.

[bible]Matthew 8:27[/bible]

Nature is hostile to God's creation!?!? Isn't nature part of God's supposedly perfect creation? How can it be hostile? Did God create "nature" because He wanted hostility? Or is nature hostile to God's creation because God cursed nature? Or was it nature that God cursed? How did something that was part of a perfect creation become hostile to that creation? Instead of creating nature because he wanted hostility did God curse nature to get hostility? In any case if God is omniscient and omnipotent he must have known that the nature he created would end up being hostile to his creation so he must have wanted hostility for some reason. I wonder why God wanted nature to be hostile to his creation.

Or maybe the whole idea that nature is hostile to God's creation is just another of your strange fantasies. That is the only possiblity that actually makes sense.

 

[FishFace]

Perfection is not a guarantee against failure --- omnipotence is.

Nice! So, in fact, my perfect car that you keep going on about good actually spontaneously explode, and still be perfect - as long as it's not omnipotent!

Great work, AV - English Language: Status - Demolished.

 

[FishFace]

I'm not a YEC.

Of course you're not, AV - due to some imagined (but of course unexplained) distinction between "age" and "time of existence" you can tie your language in knots to try and claim that you're not a YEC, the earth is 4.5 billion years old, the earth is 6,000 years in existence, and God is not a deceiver.

In case you didn't realise, we didn't buy it the last 1000 times, and we don't buy it now.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Look again --- Noah was a "preacher of righteousness".

Too bad Noah wasn't a performer of righteousness.

[BIBLE]Genesis 9:20-25[/BIBLE]

 

[mpok1519]

Noah wouldn't have been able to gather all the animal of the world even in a 120 years. Thats still not enough time.

Pangea DID NOT EXIST in Noah's time.

God did not 'clean up' the flood and get rid of the evidence.

Also, in ancient Biblical times people DID NOT live to be hundreds of years old because their calendar year was based not upon a full revolution around the sun, but rather was based more loosely on other cycles such as lunar cycles.

Noah was more like 65 when he died.

Young Age Christians know little about history, or the Bible for that matter.

AV>> you're only driving people AWAY rather than keeping them interesting and intrigued, something Jesus could teach you to do.

 

[TheOutsider]

Also, in ancient Biblical times people DID NOT live to be hundreds of years old because their calendar year was based not upon a full revolution around the sun, but rather was based more loosely on other cycles such as lunar cycles.

Noah was more like 65 when he died.

Do you have a link on that? I had been wondering about that lately and would love more reading on it. I find it impossible to believe that Methuselah lived to the age of 969.