LDS Symbols are Reminders

[drstevej]

Can you elaborate on John and the 3 Nephite Repair Team?

 

[LickedByaDog]

View attachment 174838View attachment 174839 A five pointed star and a pentagram are not the same thing. They both have 5 points----however, the one, that is used in occult practices, 2 points are up and one down. It is considered to be s symbol for the Great Goat in the Witch's Sabbath. It is not the 5 pointed star that is on the Mormon temples, but the sign of the occult.

Pentagram means "five lines" & within the occult that is how it is drawn (like the window), and it should have a circle around it too.

It remains a pentagram which ever way up it is, but with one point up it represents man the microcosm & spirit over the four elements, ie order, (as used by those who call them selves "white" magicians etc) an inverted pentagram is like an inverted Cross to all intents & purposes, it represents fallen man, and the five aspects of "evil", (according to Eliphas Levi) & of course the goat of the sabbat.

So that window is without doubt a black magic symbol, the head with the rays on the ring & stone carving look like representations of Lucifer to be honest.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Pentagram means "five lines" & within the occult that is how it is drawn (like the window), and it should have a circle around it too.

It remains a pentagram which ever way up it is, but with one point up it represents man the microcosm & spirit over the four elements, ie order, (as used by those who call them selves "white" magicians etc) an inverted pentagram is like an inverted Cross to all intents & purposes, it represents fallen man, and the five aspects of "evil", (according to Eliphas Levi) & of course the goat of the sabbat.

So that window is without doubt a black magic symbol, the head with the rays on the ring & stone carving look like representations of Lucifer to be honest.

Correction: a pentagram is only a bunch of lines. It has no meaning in and of itself. A pentagram becomes a symbol when you attach a meaning to it. In this case you're attaching this whole Lucifer meaning, which is your choice. It has no bearing on the LDS symbolism of the pentagram which symbolizes heaven (along with the moon & sun).

 

[LickedByaDog]

Are you an atheist? Only atheists demand some kind of evidence.
But the Bible testifies that apostles of the first century who LIVED ON EARTH were the foundation of the Church.
When LIVING apostles were gone from the Earth, the foundation was gone from the Earth. No foundation on Earth no Church on Earth. It is so easy to see.

The church is people, who function like a chain, so it exists irrespective of who dies, this is a logical fallacy you have here.

The foundation was the creation of the body of the Church (ie people who believed in Christ) so once it was created it was founded, it's a movement not a building, and from this foundation there is an unbroken chain of ordained/ baptised priests & laypeople, the existence of the living church is in the present here & now.

It didn't disappear off the face of the Earth only for someone to re-invent it from scratch either, and things like the First Council of Nicaea ( council of Christian bishops convened in Nicaea in Bithynia by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in AD 325 ) had to happen to homogenise the beliefs & teachings of the Church.

 

[LickedByaDog]

Correction: a pentagram is only a bunch of lines. It has no meaning in and of itself. A pentagram becomes a symbol when you attach a meaning to it. In this case you're attaching this whole Lucifer meaning, which is your choice. It has no bearing on the LDS symbolism of the pentagram which symbolizes heaven (along with the moon & sun).

When a symbol has been used for centuries to mean something, esp when this is backed by heavy occult usage it has with it a lot of meaning and magnetism, it is literally "charged" & seared into the group subconscious of humanity, don't be deceived !

I worked for the worlds biggest occult supplier when I was younger, its not bias, it's first hand knowledge, this stuff is real & extremely potent.

Put is this way if you went around wearing a swastika you would have a hard time convincing people you weren't a far right neo-nazi racist because that is the meaning & energy that humanity now associates with that symbol, telling people it was a bunch of lines wouldn't get you far.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Put is this way if you went around wearing a swastika you would have a hard time convincing people you weren't a far right neo-nazi racist because that is the meaning & energy that humanity now associates with that symbol, telling people it was a bunch of lines wouldn't get you far.

And such would show people's ignorance that the swastika was used for millennia as a symbol for a Hindu God, with zero connection to the short lived Nazi movement.

Rather than assuming things, people should ask what somebody means by a particular symbol.

 

[LickedByaDog]

And such would show people's ignorance that the swastika was used for millennia as a symbol for a Hindu God, with zero connection to the short lived Nazi movement.

Rather than assuming things, people should ask what somebody means by a particular symbol.

I agree, but the point is that millions of people died within living memory because of what that symbol was attached to, that's real psychic energy & race memory, try wearing a swastika to a holocaust remembrance service in Israel & see if they buy the hindu stuff.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I agree, but the point is that millions of people died within living memory because of what that symbol was attached to, that's real psychic energy & race memory, try wearing a swastika to a holocaust remembrance service in Israel & see if they buy the hindu stuff.

No one is asking Jewish people to forget their past that way. But by the same note, the Jewish people should not ask Hindu people to forget their past and religious heritage/symbolism.

 

[LickedByaDog]

No one is asking Jewish people to forget their past that way. But by the same note, the Jewish people should not ask Hindu people to forget their past and religious heritage/symbolism.

Sorry I obviously wasn't conveying what I was trying to say adequately.

Symbols, objects & places gather energy, this is why churches are special places because they accrue a "spiritual" charge that people draw on in times of need, objects can be charged with energy too, & possibly the most powerful are symbols, which is why they are so important in magic.

They are triggers to the subconscious & keys to energies that belong to them due to prayer, sacrifice & ritual.

Take the Cross for example, highly effective in exorcisms & cleansing "unquiet houses" because millions & millions pray before it, ( & people have died for it ) this creates a colossal energetic charge that can be used by someone who knows what they are doing.

This why the swastika is far more connected to nazis & horror than any amount of hindu relics, because 40 million people died in the most horrific bloodbath the world has ever seen, whole cities reduced to rubble, millions traumatised & injured,..... that creates a huge energetic vortex that plays out through our world view & emotions, ancient cultures are the last thing anyone thinks of when they see a swastika.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Sorry I obviously wasn't conveying what I was trying to say adequately.

Symbols, objects & places gather energy, this is why churches are special places because they accrue a "spiritual" charge that people draw on in times of need, objects can be charged with energy too, & possibly the most powerful are symbols, which is why they are so important in magic.

They are triggers to the subconscious & keys to energies that belong to them due to prayer, sacrifice & ritual.

Take the Cross for example, highly effective in exorcisms & cleansing "unquiet houses" because millions & millions pray before it, ( & people have died for it ) this creates a colossal energetic charge that can be used by someone who knows what they are doing.

This why the swastika is far more connected to nazis & horror than any amount of hindu relics, because 40 million people died in the most horrific bloodbath the world has ever seen, whole cities reduced to rubble, millions traumatised & injured,..... that creates a huge energetic vortex that plays out through our world view & emotions, ancient cultures are the last thing anyone thinks of when they see a swastika.

Ok, I get what you're saying, but completely disagree with you. Though I do very much thank you for articulating your thoughts so well and in such a kind manner. I am greatly enjoying this conversation.

I would say that a symbol/object/place cannot intrinsically gather energy like a battery- they're just things after all. Honestly your idea here reminds me of Wiccan type teachings (no offense to you or Wiccans). Energy and significance comes from people, and symbols can only serve as a catalyst for that person remembering.

For example, in my childhood I was once given a Catholic rosary, and unaware of what it was, I thought it was just an ugly piece of junk. Honestly, the only thing it reminded me of what the creepy guy at school who gave it to me because he had a crush on me. I thought about trashing it, but forgot about it in some junk pile. Spring cleaning a few years later with my Catholic friend, she was thrilled be given the rosary, because to her it was a great reminder of Christ. To her the symbol had power. To me it was junk. In and of itself it was nothing.

The same applies for all symbols, including the swastika.

 

[Super14LDS]

Sorry I obviously wasn't conveying what I was trying to say adequately.

Symbols, objects & places gather energy, this is why churches are special places because they accrue a "spiritual" charge that people draw on in times of need, objects can be charged with energy too, & possibly the most powerful are symbols, which is why they are so important in magic.

They are triggers to the subconscious & keys to energies that belong to them due to prayer, sacrifice & ritual.

Take the Cross for example, highly effective in exorcisms & cleansing "unquiet houses" because millions & millions pray before it, ( & people have died for it ) this creates a colossal energetic charge that can be used by someone who knows what they are doing.

This why the swastika is far more connected to nazis & horror than any amount of hindu relics, because 40 million people died in the most horrific bloodbath the world has ever seen, whole cities reduced to rubble, millions traumatised & injured,..... that creates a huge energetic vortex that plays out through our world view & emotions, ancient cultures are the last thing anyone thinks of when they see a swastika.

Reminds me of the word "gay"

And the rainbow for that matter.

Evil trying to rebrand itself good and many ministers now sanctify gay marriage?

 

[LickedByaDog]

Ok, I get what you're saying, but completely disagree with you. Though I do very much thank you for articulating your thoughts so well and in such a kind manner. I am greatly enjoying this conversation.

I would say that a symbol/object/place cannot intrinsically gather energy like a battery- they're just things after all. Honestly your idea here reminds me of Wiccan type teachings (no offense to you or Wiccans). Energy and significance comes from people, and symbols can only serve as a catalyst for that person remembering.

For example, in my childhood I was once given a Catholic rosary, and unaware of what it was, I thought it was just an ugly piece of junk. Honestly, the only thing it reminded me of what the creepy guy at school who gave it to me because he had a crush on me. I thought about trashing it, but forgot about it in some junk pile. Spring cleaning a few years later with my Catholic friend, she was thrilled be given the rosary, because to her it was a great reminder of Christ. To her the symbol had power. To me it was junk. In and of itself it was nothing.

The same applies for all symbols, including the swastika.

That is just intellectualising in all honesty, every thing from shamanistic amulets to holy water are charged with energy, it's not for fun that all the rich & powerful are occultists, that stuff is real, I have witnessed it first hand & that is why I turned to Christ !

Yes the energy & significance comes from people, this is very important & is covered in the Bible, this is why God brought the animals to Adam to name, this is a power we have & continue to abuse.

Wicca is a modern invention (1930's) that serious occultists laugh at, but in reality it is occult "lite" & is doing a grand job of leading many astray, esp with the success of the "Harry Potter " books.

A rosary is a powerful tool in the right hands, some call it a spiritual weapon, it is sad that that you dismiss it so lightly.

 

[LickedByaDog]

Reminds me of the word "gay"

And the rainbow for that matter.

Evil trying to rebrand itself good and many ministers now sanctify gay marriage?

Rebranding & changing the meanings of words is the MO of the deceivers, deception is the big give away of who is at work !

 

[Jane_Doe]

That is just intellectualising in all honesty, every thing from shamanistic amulets to holy water are charged with energy, it's not for fun that all the rich & powerful are occultists, that stuff is real, I have witnessed it first hand & that is why I turned to Christ !

Yes the energy & significance comes from people, this is very important & is covered in the Bible, this is why God brought the animals to Adam to name, this is a power we have & continue to abuse.

Wicca is a modern invention (1930's) that serious occultists laugh at, but in reality it is occult "lite" & is doing a grand job of leading many astray, esp with the success of the "Harry Potter " books.

A rosary is a powerful tool in the right hands, some call it a spiritual weapon, it is sad that that you dismiss it so lightly.

Again, I appreciate your perspective, even if I full heartedly disagree. Though, I do agree that a rosary can be quite a powerful tool-- the power coming 100% from the person (or more specifically from them channeling God) and 0% from the item itself.

 

[Super14LDS]

Can you elaborate on John and the 3 Nephite Repair Team?

Here is one account attributed to the Three Nephites.

... “At this critical moment, God showed them that he was on their side, for he performed one of the greatest miracles that ever happened. The Arabs suddenly threw down their arms and surrendered. When their delegation appeared with the white flag, they asked, ‘Where are the three men and where are all the troops we saw?’ The Jews told them that they did not know anything of the three men, for this group was their entire force. The Arabs said that they saw three persons, with long beards and flowing white robes who warned them not to fight any longer, otherwise they would all be killed. They became so frightened that they decided to give up. What an encouragement this was for the Jews to realize that God was fighting for them. ...

http://askgramps.org/have-there-been-any-sightings-of-the-three-nephites/

 

[John Davidson]

the real pentagram is a 6 pointed one with a circle round it.

I'm sorry but I need to jump in here and correct this.

Penta means five, so a 6 pointed star is not a "pentagram". A six pointed star is actually a hexagram.

 

[Super14LDS]

Can you elaborate on John and the 3 Nephite Repair Team?

Here is a quick summary.

... John was permitted by the Lord to tarry in the flesh until He comes in answer to his own desire. As recorded on parchment by John and hidden up, his words were revealed to Joseph Smith—
And I [John] said unto him: Lord, give unto me power over death, that I may live and bring souls unto thee. And the Lord said unto me: Verily, verily, I say unto thee, because thou desirest this thou shalt tarry until I come in my glory, and shalt prophesy before nations, kindreds, tongues and people. And for this cause the Lord said unto Peter: If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? For he desired of me that he might bring souls unto me, but thou desiredst that thou mightest speedily come unto me in my kingdom (D&C 7:2-4).
So the promise made to John was that he was to tarry in mortality until the Lord come. He lives as a “translated” mortal being, ...

http://askgramps.org/was-john-the-beloved-transformed-in-a-twinkling-of-an-eye/

And here is an in-depth article on the subject to include translated beings.

Past Perspectives on the Fate of John

Without the additional truth that modern revelation supplies, the information contained in John 21:20–23 is ambiguous enough to have fostered a great deal of confusion concerning the fate of John the Beloved. It is important to note that there is evidence of scribal editing in our current edition of the Gospel of John. Some editorial comments seem to have made their way into the text itself. For instance, following the Savior’s declaration that John would “tarry till I come” (John 21:22), the narrative continues: “Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?” . Taken at face value, the second part of this statement seems to discount the idea of John’s being translated. Those words likely reflect an editor’s view of the speculation about John. ...

Whether those particular words are to be attributed to John or an editor, they have been a key factor in the traditional interpretation of the Savior’s statement over the past two millennia; namely, it may have sounded like Jesus said John would not die, but He did not really say that John would not die.

The Christian leader Papias, who probably lived sometime between A.D. 60 and 130, is reported to have said that John and his brother James were both killed by Jews.Tertullian, an early Christian theologian from around A.D. 200, taught that “John underwent death, although concerning him there had prevailed an ungrounded expectation that he would remain alive until the coming of the Lord.”This same conclusion was common among other early Christian writers down to the fifth century. ...

https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/doctrine-and-covenants/john-beloved-latter-day-scripture-dc-42

 

[mmksparbud]

The original emblem of two overlapping squares, often with a circular ornament, is called a rub el hisb (Arabic, quarter-group), an ornament used to mark the end of passages in the Q’uran. This symbol, like all symbols related to Islam, is not official nor heavily symbolic.


This is the symbol for the Mormon Melchisidec priesthood

 

[Alla27]

Jane_Doe, thanks for explaining about symbols so clearly. Even a child can understand.
Symbols without meaning are nothing.
LDS symbols have meaning that points towards God of Israel.
I have better understanding of them when I am in the Temple of God. But I can not discuss it here. Too sacred and the PEARL of great price.

 

[mmksparbud]

Here is one account attributed to the Three Nephites.

... “At this critical moment, God showed them that he was on their side, for he performed one of the greatest miracles that ever happened. The Arabs suddenly threw down their arms and surrendered. When their delegation appeared with the white flag, they asked, ‘Where are the three men and where are all the troops we saw?’ The Jews told them that they did not know anything of the three men, for this group was their entire force. The Arabs said that they saw three persons, with long beards and flowing white robes who warned them not to fight any longer, otherwise they would all be killed. They became so frightened that they decided to give up. What an encouragement this was for the Jews to realize that God was fighting for them. ...

http://askgramps.org/have-there-been-any-sightings-of-the-three-nephites/

Some editorial comments seem to have made their way into the text itself. For instance, following the Savior’s declaration that John would “tarry till I come” (John 21:22), the narrative continues: “Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?” (v. 23). Taken at face value, the second part of this statement seems to discount the idea of John’s being translated. Those words likely reflect an editor’s view of the speculation about John.[31]


That is what is said when faced with truth----However, in the original, not one single time is the wording any different----it is John that makes the statement as he does not want any misconception. It is clearly not an "editors' view of the speculation about John"

Nestle GNT 1904

ἐξῆλθεν οὖν οὗτος ὁ λόγος εἰς τοὺς ἀδελφοὺς ὅτι ὁ μαθητὴς ἐκεῖνος οὐκ ἀποθνήσκει· οὐκ εἶπεν δὲ αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς ὅτι οὐκ ἀποθνήσκει, ἀλλ’ Ἐὰν αὐτὸν θέλω μένειν ἕως ἔρχομαι, τί πρὸς σέ;

Westcott and Hort 1881
Ἐξῆλθεν οὖν οὗτος ὁ λόγος εἰς τοὺς ἀδελφοὺς ὅτι ὁ μαθητὴς ἐκεῖνος οὐκ ἀποθνήσκει. οὐκ εἶπεν δὲ αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς ὅτι οὐκ ἀποθνήσκει, ἀλλ' Ἐὰν αὐτὸν θέλω μένειν ἕως ἔρχομαι, τί πρὸς σέ;
Westcott and Hort / [NA27 variants]
Ἐξῆλθεν οὖν οὗτος ὁ λόγος εἰς τοὺς ἀδελφοὺς ὅτι ὁ μαθητὴς ἐκεῖνος οὐκ ἀποθνήσκει. οὐκ εἶπεν δὲ αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς ὅτι οὐκ ἀποθνήσκει, ἀλλ' Ἐὰν αὐτὸν θέλω μένειν ἕως ἔρχομαι, τί πρὸς σέ;
RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
Ἐξῆλθεν οὖν ὁ λόγος οὗτος εἰς τοὺς ἀδελφούς, ὅτι ὁ μαθητὴς ἐκεῖνος οὐκ ἀποθνῄσκει· καὶ οὐκ εἴπεν αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς, ὅτι οὐκ ἀποθνῄσκει· ἀλλ', Ἐὰν αὐτὸν θέλω μένειν ἕως ἔρχομαι, τί πρός σε;
Greek Orthodox Church 1904
ἐξῆλθεν οὖν ὁ λόγος οὗτος εἰς τοὺς ἀδελφοὺς ὅτι ὁ μαθητὴς ἐκεῖνος οὐκ ἀποθνήσκει· καὶ οὐκ εἶπεν αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς ὅτι οὐκ ἀποθνήσκει, ἀλλ’ Ἐὰν αὐτὸν θέλω μένειν ἕως ἔρχομαι, τί πρὸς σέ;
Tischendorf 8th Edition
ἐξῆλθεν οὖν οὗτος ὁ λόγος εἰς τοὺς ἀδελφοὺς ὅτι ὁ μαθητὴς ἐκεῖνος οὐκ ἀποθνήσκει· καὶ οὐκ εἶπεν αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς ὅτι οὐκ ἀποθνήσκει, ἀλλ’· ἐὰν αὐτὸν θέλω μένειν ἕως ἔρχομαι.
Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
ἐξῆλθεν οὖν ὁ λόγος οὗτος εἰς τοὺς ἀδελφούς, ὅτι ὁ μαθητὴς ἐκεῖνος οὐκ ἀποθνῄσκει· καὶ οὐκ εἶπεν αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς, ὅτι οὐκ ἀποθνήσκει· ἀλλ’, Ἐὰν αὐτὸν θέλω μένειν ἕως ἔρχομαι, τί πρός σε;
Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
ἐξῆλθεν οὖν ὁ λόγος οὗτος εἰς τοὺς ἀδελφοὺς ὅτι ὁ μαθητὴς ἐκεῖνος οὐκ ἀποθνῄσκει καὶ οὐκ εἶπεν αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς ὅτι οὐκ ἀποθνῄσκει· ἀλλ' Ἐὰν αὐτὸν θέλω μένειν ἕως ἔρχομαι τί πρὸς σέ
not Adv
599 [e] apothnēskei ἀποθνήσκει, he dies; V-PIA-3S
235 [e] all’ ἀλλ’ but, Conj
1437 [e] Ean Ἐὰν If Conj
846 [e] auton αὐτὸν him PPro-AM3S
2309 [e] thelō θέλω I desire V-PSA-1S
3306 [e] menein μένειν to remain V-PNA
2193 [e] heōs ἕως until Conj
2064 [e] erchomai ἔρχομαι, I come, V-PIM/P-1S
5101 [e] ti τί what [is it] IPro-NNS
4314 [e] pros πρὸς to Prep
4771 [e] se σέ; you?