LDS Symbols are Reminders

[fatboys]

No, this is what the Bible says. It doesn't involve my feelings or beliefs.


That it doesn't make sense to you and you use that for establishing your belief means that you are the one interpreting it to be something. Interpretation means you are viewing it subjectively (as you accused me of doing, even though I'm objectively looking at what the Bible says).

He was a man - why wouldn't he have shuddered at the prospect of torment and suffering? What man wouldn't?


Fully God and fully man - both.


Again, you put your own subjective views above what God's Word says. Your opinion doesn't stack up to the facts of the Bible.

To a lot of people it doesn't make sense that God would send someone to hell for not believing even if that person did many good works for most of his life while sending someone who sinned most of his life to heaven simply because that person repented and accepted Him. It doesn't seem "fair" to our senses. But this is what God has deemed to be fair and it is what God says makes "sense" to Him. Our concepts of justice and fairness are perverted by sin and we must look to and obey God for what is truly fair.

Does it make sense to you that God would send the children he says he loves to a place of eternal torture for none belief? Is this what you believe the justice of God is? What your saying that God knew that when he created his creations he knew that most would fall and cast into a fiery pit to be ever burning and never exhumed? And God still continued created the first but continued to created billions upon billions to only condemn the majority to hell? And this is your idea of a just And merciful God? You believe in a God that would condemn those who he placed in a time or a area that lived and died never hearing of the gospel or even the name Jesus to hell because they did not believe in Jesus? You can have that kind of God. I believe in a God who truly loves all his children. Even those who hate him or do not believe in him. In mortality we are suose to love our enemies. That sounds more Christ like than the God you believe in

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Does it make sense to you that God would send the children he says he loves to a place of eternal torture for none belief? Is this what you believe the justice of God is? What your saying that God knew that when he created his creations he knew that most would fall and cast into a fiery pit to be ever burning and never exhumed? And God still continued created the first but continued to created billions upon billions to only condemn the majority to hell? And this is your idea of a just And merciful God? You believe in a God that would condemn those who he placed in a time or a area that lived and died never hearing of the gospel or even the name Jesus to hell because they did not believe in Jesus? You can have that kind of God. I believe in a God who truly loves all his children. Even those who hate him or do not believe in him. In mortality we are suose to love our enemies. That sounds more Christ like than the God you believe in

We're not all God's children. We are His creations. We can BECOME His children through salvation but otherwise we are not His children.

God's justice doesn't have to make sense to me. It doesn't make sense to me that someone can kill or rape or steal for decades and then come to Christ and be pardoned and become His son and spend eternity with Him in heaven. That's not fair by my human standards. It's mercy and it's the kind of mercy we humans are scarcely capable of because it doesn't make sense to us.

If someone tortured and killed your own son in front of you and mocked him and mocked you could you have mercy and forgive that person and invite that person to live with you forever? I don't think I could because it wouldn't make sense to me to do such a thing. Our understanding and God's understanding are different which is why He has had to teach us through His Word and His example.

If you reject "that kind of God" then you are rejecting the God of the Bible. We (Christians) in these forums have been saying for quite some time that the mormon god is different from our Biblical God and you're pretty much saying that this is true.

I trust that God is merciful and just as His Word says. I don't know what He will do with every soul - those who didn't hear the Gospel (if there are any), those who have limited mental capacity due to being children or being mentally ill. All I can do is trust His Word that He is merciful and just and will deal with every soul with justice and mercy according to His perfect Will. And God (who Christ is, by the way) does love His enemies, which is why He gives us the Gospel.

 

[fatboys]

We're not all God's children. We are His creations. We can BECOME His children through salvation but otherwise we are not His children.

God's justice doesn't have to make sense to me. It doesn't make sense to me that someone can kill or rape or steal for decades and then come to Christ and be pardoned and become His son and spend eternity with Him in heaven. That's not fair by my human standards. It's mercy and it's the kind of mercy we humans are scarcely capable of because it doesn't make sense to us.

If someone tortured and killed your own son in front of you and mocked him and mocked you could you have mercy and forgive that person and invite that person to live with you forever? I don't think I could because it wouldn't make sense to me to do such a thing. Our understanding and God's understanding are different which is why He has had to teach us through His Word and His example.

If you reject "that kind of God" then you are rejecting the God of the Bible. We (Christians) in these forums have been saying for quite some time that the mormon god is different from our Biblical God and you're pretty much saying that this is true.

I trust that God is merciful and just as His Word says. I don't know what He will do with every soul - those who didn't hear the Gospel (if there are any), those who have limited mental capacity due to being children or being mentally ill. All I can do is trust His Word that He is merciful and just and will deal with every soul with justice and mercy according to His perfect Will. And God (who Christ is, by the way) does love His enemies, which is why He gives us the Gospel.

So we are just creations and nothing more? We mean nothing to God until we believe

 

[Rescued One]

We're not all God's children. We are His creations. We can BECOME His children through salvation but otherwise we are not His children.

God's justice doesn't have to make sense to me. It doesn't make sense to me that someone can kill or rape or steal for decades and then come to Christ and be pardoned and become His son and spend eternity with Him in heaven. That's not fair by my human standards. It's mercy and it's the kind of mercy we humans are scarcely capable of because it doesn't make sense to us.

If someone tortured and killed your own son in front of you and mocked him and mocked you could you have mercy and forgive that person and invite that person to live with you forever? I don't think I could because it wouldn't make sense to me to do such a thing. Our understanding and God's understanding are different which is why He has had to teach us through His Word and His example.

If you reject "that kind of God" then you are rejecting the God of the Bible. We (Christians) in these forums have been saying for quite some time that the mormon god is different from our Biblical God and you're pretty much saying that this is true.

I trust that God is merciful and just as His Word says. I don't know what He will do with every soul - those who didn't hear the Gospel (if there are any), those who have limited mental capacity due to being children or being mentally ill. All I can do is trust His Word that He is merciful and just and will deal with every soul with justice and mercy according to His perfect Will. And God (who Christ is, by the way) does love His enemies, which is why He gives us the Gospel.

You make more sense all the time!

 

[ArmenianJohn]

So we are just creations and nothing more? We mean nothing to God until we believe

I didn't say we are "just creations and nothing more". We are a special creation but a creation nonetheless. We are not created as His "children". We obviously mean a lot to God when you consider what He has done to provide us salvation.

 

[fatboys]

I didn't say we are "just creations and nothing more". We are a special creation but a creation nonetheless. We are not created as His "children". We obviously mean a lot to God when you consider what He has done to provide us salvation.

So why do not just call him creator? We call him father

 

[ArmenianJohn]

So why do not just call him creator? We call him father

We call Him Father because we are Christians. Non-Christians should call Him "Creator".

 

[mmksparbud]

Think about it. Think about all the blood which has npbeen spilt and the thousands which which were hung on crosses they may have been tortured more cruel but not one sin was paid for. You want me to believe that Jesus paid for all transgressions on a device that thousands before him had died on?
You believe that if a person does not believe they will be thrust down to hell and live eternally in pain and suffering. Why would God require more from those who do not repent than what the savior went through on a device of death?

In the first place---I do not believe in an everlasting burning hell---I believe that after we pay for our sins in that lake of fire, we will die "The soul that sinneth, it shall die"---but that is not what this thread is about---and which of those whose blood was spilt was the ONE AND ONLY SON OF GOD WHO CREATED ALL THINGS??? None---which of them then agreed to become human in order to become one with His creation and thus be able to be the one that could pay the price of death for all because of His place in heaven with His heavenly Father and being the one that created us in the first place???--none----which of them had never sinned?--None---which of them could afterwards be then able to be the High Priest after the order of Melchisidec because He had always been one with the Father???---None---
I really do not understand what your point is---God is God---the bible is His word and if you do not believe in Him, there is no place in heaven for you--that is God's will---if you think He is unfair about it----take it up with Him.

Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

 

[fatboys]

In the first place---I do not believe in an everlasting burning hell---I believe that after we pay for our sins in that lake of fire, we will die "The soul that sinneth, it shall die"---but that is not what this thread is about---and which of those whose blood was spilt was the ONE AND ONLY SON OF GOD WHO CREATED ALL THINGS??? None---which of them then agreed to become human in order to become one with His creation and thus be able to be the one that could pay the price of death for all because of His place in heaven with His heavenly Father and being the one that created us in the first place???--none----which of them had never sinned?--None---which of them could afterwards be then able to be the High Priest after the order of Melchisidec because He had always been one with the Father???---None---
I really do not understand what your point is---God is God---the bible is His word and if you do not believe in Him, there is no place in heaven for you--that is God's will---if you think He is unfair about it----take it up with Him.

Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

So you believe that even the bible states otherwise those that do not believe will no longer exist

 

[Rescued One]

John this is your interpretation. And he did pay for sins on the cross but it doesn't make sense to me that God shuttered from fear or weakness at the thought of death or spilling blood. He is God. If it doesn't make sense I struggle with it to be true. It makes more sense to me that in order to pay the price God had to go through a process that was more than a mortal could go through. The cross was not sufficient to do the job in my opinion.

If you think he wasn't human, why did he lower Himself to take on flesh? How did He bleed if not human?

 

[Rescued One]

Does it make sense to you that God would send the children he says he loves to a place of eternal torture for none belief?

His children are His sheep. They aren't goats.

In Mormonism, the sons and daughters are with him in the highest level of the celestial kingdom. They are the Church of the Firstborn.

 

[fatboys]

If you think he wasn't human, why did he lower Himself to take on flesh? How did He bleed if not human?

His mother was mortal

 

[Rescued One]

His mother was mortal

I know that humans are mortal. You said:

John this is your interpretation. And he did pay for sins on the cross but it doesn't make sense to me that God shuttered from fear or weakness at the thought of death or spilling blood. He is God. If it doesn't make sense I struggle with it to be true. It makes more sense to me that in order to pay the price God had to go through a process that was more than a mortal could go through. The cross was not sufficient to do the job in my opinion.

 

[Rescued One]

So why do not just call him creator? We call him father

We call Him Father because He adopted us. Unless you(Mormons) obey all His commandments, He will ostracize you.

ENDOWMENT AND SEALING PRECEDE SONSHIP. The Lord has given unto us privileges, and blessings and the opportunity of entering into covenants, of accepting ordinances that pertain to our salvation beyond what is preached in the world; beyond the principles of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, repentance from sin, and baptism for the remission of sins, and the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost; and these principles and covenants are received nowhere else but in the temple of God.
If you would become a son or daughter of God and an heir of the kingdom, then you must go to the house of the Lord and receive blessings which there can be obtained and which cannot be obtained elsewhere; and you must keep those commandments and those covenants to the end. . . .

Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 2, p. 40

 

[mmksparbud]

If you would become a son or daughter of God and an heir of the kingdom, then you must go to the house of the Lord and receive blessings which there can be obtained and which cannot be obtained elsewhere; and you must keep those commandments and those covenants to the end. . . .

Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 2, p. 40

Receive blessings at the temple which can not be obtained elsewhere??? And you can't become a son or daughter of God without those blessing or without keeping the covenants----"those commandments" and "those covenants"... are you also given commandments and covenants that are not in the bible---only at the temple????

 

[fatboys]

We call Him Father because He adopted us. Unless you obey all His commandments, He will ostracize you.

ENDOWMENT AND SEALING PRECEDE SONSHIP. The Lord has given unto us privileges, and blessings and the opportunity of entering into covenants, of accepting ordinances that pertain to our salvation beyond what is preached in the world; beyond the principles of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, repentance from sin, and baptism for the remission of sins, and the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost; and these principles and covenants are received nowhere else but in the temple of God.
If you would become a son or daughter of God and an heir of the kingdom, then you must go to the house of the Lord and receive blessings which there can be obtained and which cannot be obtained elsewhere; and you must keep those commandments and those covenants to the end. . . .

Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 2, p. 40

So his love conditional

 

[BigDaddy4]

So his love conditional

For mormons, yes.

 

[fatboys]

For mormons, yes.

Huh?

 

[BigDaddy4]

Huh?

Please keep up with the conversation. See Post #114.

 

[fatboys]

Please keep up with the conversation. See Post #114.

That is what I'm responding to. Does God stop loving us if we fail to love him? Is the law he has given to us a to love our enemies a greater law than God can live by?