LDS Swedish Mormons Began Leaving LDS!

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,508
6,395
Midwest
✟78,539.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
There is only one Jesus Christ...

Matthew 24:5
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Mark 13:6
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Luke 21:8
And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

Matthew 24:23
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

Mark 13:21
And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:

Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

:praying: Praying for the deceived.
 
Upvote 0

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,508
6,395
Midwest
✟78,539.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Yes I understand the Bible:

(Old Testament | Exodus 20:6)

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Hebrews 12:6
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Jonah disobeyed God.

Jonah 1
17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

Jonah 2
7 When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.
8 They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.
9 But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD.
10 And the LORD spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.

Romans 9
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

God is free to have mercy on imperfect people who are actually sinners.

Romans 5
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Matthew 24:5
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Mark 13:6
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Luke 21:8
And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

Matthew 24:23
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

Mark 13:21
And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:

Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

:praying: Praying for the deceived.
There is only one true God the Father and Jesus Christ. They want us to keep the commandments of LOVE.

(New Testament | Matthew 22:37 - 40)

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
 
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,821
73
Las Vegas
✟255,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
Yes I understand the Bible:

(Old Testament | Exodus 20:6)

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

David did not keep the commandments:

(New Testament | Revelation 21:1 - 8)

1 AND I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

You constantly show you don't understand God or the bible. Why did you just emphasize just murderers?

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:
which is the second death.


A murderer is listed right alongside the fearful, unbelieving, sorcerers, idolaters,all liars and the abominble. Who are the abominable? Do a word search---usually associasted with eating unclean foods, touching unclean animals, practicing the pagan rites. Interesting that a solrcerer is listed in the same list---something JS and his whole family did. all liars---idolaters---JS taught another God, not the God of the bible, he lied---whoremonger---who else but a whoremonger marries 30 women after God said one wife? He is therefore sitting right next to David. And will never achieve exaltation.
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
You constantly show you don't understand God or the bible. Why did you just emphasize just murderers?

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:
which is the second death.


A murderer is listed right alongside the fearful, unbelieving, sorcerers, idolaters,all liars and the abominble. Who are the abominable? Do a word search---usually associasted with eating unclean foods, touching unclean animals, practicing the pagan rites. Interesting that a solrcerer is listed in the same list---something JS and his whole family did. all liars---idolaters---JS taught another God, not the God of the bible, he lied---whoremonger---who else but a whoremonger marries 30 women after God said one wife? He is therefore sitting right next to David. And will never achieve exaltation.
Joseph Smith was not a sorcerer. He did not conger up spirits, he prayed to God which is what we should all do. David was a murderer and an adulterer.
 
Upvote 0

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,508
6,395
Midwest
✟78,539.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
There is only one true God the Father and Jesus Christ. They want us to keep the commandments of LOVE.

That describes a false god. Why do you deny the Holy Spirit?

Do you also believe that Joseph Smith was a false prophet? Are you still a Mormon?

D&C 130
22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.
23 A man may receive the Holy Ghost, and it may descend upon him and not tarry with him.

Here then, is eternal life-to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power….
Joseph Fielding Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 342-347.

Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 4

The Gods plan the creation of the earth and all life thereon—Their plans for the six days of creation are set forth.

1 And then the Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth.

2 And the earth, after it was formed, was empty and desolate, because they had not formed anything but the earth; and darkness reigned upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of the Gods was brooding upon the face of the waters.

(NOTE: Mormonism teaches that every god has a spirit and a physical body, except your "Holy Ghost.")

3 And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light; and there was light.

4 And they (the Gods) comprehended the light, for it was bright; and they divided the light, or caused it to be divided, from the darkness.

I think Mormonism confuses you. When you talk about it, it's as if you weren't taught what the rest of LDS were taught.
 
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,821
73
Las Vegas
✟255,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
Joseph Smith was not a sorcerer. He did not conger up spirits, he prayed to God which is what we should all do. David was a murderer and an adulterer.

sorcerer
[ˈsôrs(ə)rər]
NOUN
  1. a person who claims or is believed to have magic powers; a wizard.
    synonyms:
    wizard · witch · (black) magician · warlock · diviner · occultist · voodooist · sorceress · enchanter · enchantress · necromancer · magus · medicine man ·
    [more]

"When Joseph Smith recalled his money-digging activities for his official history, he wrote only about searching for a lost mine in 1825 for Josiah Stowell. But contemporary records suggest that this had been one of the Smith family occupations in the Palmyra/Manchester area since the early 1820s. For example, Joshua Stafford of Manchester recalled that he ‘became acquainted with the family of Joseph Smith, Sen. about the year 1819 or 20. They then were laboring people, in low circumstances. A short time after this, they commenced digging for hidden treasures,…and told marvellous stories about ghosts, hob-goblins, caverns, and various other mysterious matters.’ Willard Chase, another friend of the family, similarly recalled, ‘I became acquainted with the Smith family…in the year 1820. At that time they were engaged in the money digging business.’" (Inventing Mormonism, Marquardt and Walters, p.64)

Lucy Smith wrote:

"A short time before the house was completed [1825], a man by the name of Josiah Stoal came from Chenango county, New York, with the view of getting Joseph to assist him in digging for a silver mine. He came for Joseph on account of having heard that he posssessed certain means by which he could discern things invisible to the natural eye." (Biographical Sketches, Lucy Smith, pp.91-92, as quoted in Early Mormon Documents, Vol. 1, p.309)

People of State of New York vs. Joseph Smith. Warrant issued upon oath of Peter G. Bridgman, who informed that one Joseph Smith of Bainbridge was a disorderly person and an imposter. Prisoner brought into court March 20 (1826). Prisoner examined. Says that he came from town of Palmyra, and had been at the house of Josiah Stowell in Bainbridge most of time since; had small part of time been employed in looking for mines, but the major part had been employed by said Stowell on his farm, and going to school; that he had a certain stone, which he had occasionally looked at to determine where hidden treasures in the bowels of the earth were; that he professed to tell in this manner where gold-mines were a distance under ground, and had looked for Mr. Stowell several times, and informed him where he could find those treasures, and Mr. Stowell had been engaged in digging for them; that at Palmyra he pretended to tell, by looking at this stone, where coined money was buried in Pennsylvania, and while at Palmyra he had frequently ascertained in that way where lost property was, of various kinds; that he has occasionally been in the habit of looking through this stone to find lost property for three years, but of late had pretty much given it up on account its injuring his health, especially his eyes—made them sore; that he did not solicit business of this kind, and had always rather declined having anything to do with this business.…

"Recent discoveries have confirmed the reality of the 1826 pre-trial examination of ‘Joseph Smith The Glass looker’ before Albert Neely, a justice of the peace." (The Creation of the Book of Mormon, LaMar Petersen, Freethinker Press, 1998, pp. 29-32)

In 1971 Wesley P. Walters, a Presbyterian minister and researcher of Mormon history, went to New York to look for documentation of Smith’s 1826 hearing. In the damp, musty basement of the jail in Norwich, New York, Mr. Walters found the Chenango county documents for 1826. In these bundles of papers were two documents that related to Smith’s 1826 hearing. Mr. Walters explains:

"The discovery among the 1826 Chenango County bills of two bills from the officials who participated in the arrest and trial of Joseph Smith at South Bainbridge in 1826 now confirms this story beyond question. The bill of Justice Albert Neely carries this entry:


(click to enlarge)


same [i.e. The People]
vs.
Misdemeanor

Joseph Smith
The Glass Looker
March 20, 1826 To my fees in examination
of the above cause 2.68
"The phrase ‘Glass looker’ appearing on Mr. Neely’s bill is the precise terminology preferred by Joseph Smith himself to describe his crystal gazing occupation and is the same that Mr. Benton adopted five years later to speak of Smith’s use of a peep-stone or glass placed in a hat, which he employed when hired to hunt for hidden treasures. The bill of Constable Philip De Zeng gives further historical evidence and details concerning this trial, by listing:


(click to enlarge)


Serving Warrant on Joseph Smith & travel..........1.25
Subpoening 12 Witnesses & travel..........2.50 (3.50?)
Attendance with Prisoner two days & 1 night......1.75
Notifying two Justices..........................................1.
10 miles travel with Mittimus to take him............1.
"This new evidence corroborates and throws fresh light on two accounts of this 1826 trial published almost a hundred years ago but vigorously disputed by the Mormons since they first came into prominence. The first is an account of the trial by Dr. William D. Purple, an eye-witness to the proceedings and a personal friend of Justice Neely. The second is the official trial record itself, torn from the Docket Book of Justice Neely and published in three independent printings. Not only do the newly-discovered bills substantiate these two accounts as authentic, they now make it impossible for Mormon scholars to dismiss the numerous affidavits testifying that young Smith prior to founding the Mormon faith had earned part of his livelihood using a peep-stone to hunt for buried treasures. The peep-stone story can no longer be set aside as a
vicious story circulated by those who wished to persecute the budding Prophet, for this new evidence, dating four years before he founded his church, witnesses incontrovertibly to Joseph’s early ‘glass-looking’ activities."
(Joseph Smith’s Bainbridge, N.Y. Court Trials, by Wesley P. Walters, pp.129-131)
 
  • Informative
Reactions: 1 person
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,821
73
Las Vegas
✟255,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
Animal sacrifices were often a part of the magic rituals that accompanied money-digging. In the first edition of his book, Early Mormonism and the Magic World View, p.144, Dr. D. Michael Quinn gives this information: "A cousin of Smith’s wife Emma reported that Smith ‘translated the book of Mormon by means of the same peep stone, and under the same inspiration that directed his enchantments and dog sacrifices; it was all by the same spirit’ (H. Lewis 1879)."

In a magic book known as The Greater Key of Solomon, page 122, we read that "In many operations it is necessary to make some sort of sacrifice unto the demons, and in various ways… Such sacrifices consist of the blood and sometimes of the flesh."

The evidence seems to show that Joseph Smith did make sacrifices to the demons. In an affidavit published in 1834, William Stafford, one of the neighbors of the Smith family, reported the following:

Joseph Smith, Sen., came to me one night, and told me that Joseph Smith Jr. had been looking in his glass, and had seen, not many rods from his house, two or three kegs of gold and silver… Joseph, Sen. first made a circle, twelve or fourteen feet in diameter. This circle, said he, contains the treasure. He then stuck in the ground a row of witch hazel sticks, around the said circle, for the purpose of keeping off the evil spirits. Within this circle he made another, of about eight or ten feet in diameter. He walked around three times on the periphery of this last circle, muttering to himself something which I could not understand. He next stuck a steel rod in the centre of the circles, and then enjoined profound silence upon us, lest we should arouse the evil spirit who had the charge of these treasures. After we had dug a trench about five feet in depth around the rod, the old man… went to the house to inquire of young Joseph the cause of our disappointment. He soon returned and said, that Joseph had remained all this time in the house, looking in his stone and watching the motions of the evil spirit – that he saw the spirit come up to the ring and as soon as it beheld the cone which we had formed around the rod, it caused the money to sink… another time, they devised a scheme, by which they might satiate their hunger, with the mutton of one of my sheep. They had seen in my flock a sheep, a large, fat, black weather. Old Joseph and one of the boys came to me one day, and said that Joseph Jr. had discovered some very remarkable and valuable treasures, which could be procured only in one way. That way, was as follows: That a black sheep should be taken to the ground where the treasures were concealed that after cutting its throat, it should be led around in a circle while bleeding. This being done, the wrath of the evil spirit would be appeased: the treasures could then be obtained, and my share of them was to be four fold. To gratify my curiosity, I let them have a large fat sheep. They afterwards informed me, that the sheep was killed pursuant to commandment; but as there was some mistake in the process, it did not have the desired effect. This, I believe, is the only time they ever made money-digging a profitable business. (Mormonism Unvailed, 1834, pages 238-239; also reproduced in Early Mormon Documents, Vol. 2, pp.59-61)

The reader will notice that it was a "black" sheep that was supposed to have been sacrificed. This is interesting because The Greater Key of Solomon, page 122, says that, "Sometimes white animals are sacrificed to the good Spirits and black to the evil."

In any case, the Mormon apologist Richard L. Anderson says that, "If there was such an event of a borrowed sheep, it had nothing to do with dishonesty." (Brigham Young University Studies, Spring 1970, page 295) On page 249 of the same article, Professor Anderson quotes the following from BYU Professor M. Wilford Poulson’s notes of a conversation with Wallace Miner: "I once asked Stafford if Smith did steal a sheep from him. He said no, not exactly. He said, he did miss a black sheep, but soon Joseph came and admitted he took it for sacrifice but he was willing to work for it. He made wooden sap buckets to fully pay for it."

C. R. Stafford testified concerning the same incident: "Jo Smith, the prophet, told my uncle, William Stafford, he wanted a fat, black sheep. He said he wanted to cut its throat and make it walk in a circle three times around and it would prevent a pot of money from leaving." (Naked Truths About Mormonism, January 1888, page 3; also reproduced in Early Mormon Documents, Vol. 2, p. 197)

The current leaders of the Mormon Church have turned away from many of the occultic practices, which played such an important role in the church Joseph Smith founded. In fact, the church hierarchy has publicly condemned magic. Most Mormons are not aware of Joseph Smith’s involvement in the occult because their leaders have systematically covered up the more embarrassing parts of Smith’s history.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: 1 person
Upvote 0

Ironhold

Member
Feb 14, 2014
7,625
1,463
✟201,967.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Single
(Joseph Smith’s Bainbridge, N.Y. Court Trials, by Wesley P. Walters, pp.129-131)

*headdesk*

1. Under the law, Walters' actions in stealing those documents were a far more serious crime than anything Joseph was ever accused of in either of these trials.

2. Mormon/LDS Answers: Questions about LDS Prophets and the Mormons -> An honest scholarly analysis of the document reveals it to be a bill for a pre-trial hearing, one conducted to determine if there was enough evidence to even have a full-on trial. Thus, all it does is confirm that something went down; it says nothing of his conviction.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: He is the way
Upvote 0

Ironhold

Member
Feb 14, 2014
7,625
1,463
✟201,967.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Single
(Mormonism Unvailed, 1834, pages 238-239; also reproduced in Early Mormon Documents, Vol. 2, pp.59-61)

The true author of "Mormonism Unvailed" was Philastus Hurlbut, who had been twice ejected from the church for conduct unbecoming. After the second time he was shown the door, he publicly swore bloody vengeance against Joseph Smith, such that even non-Mormon courts ended up having to deal with him and his antics.

The person named as the author of the book was actually its editor, as Hurlbut's reputation in the primary area where the book was to be published had been so damaged by his legal run-ins that even non-Mormon audiences would have refused to read it had his name been on the publication.

Couple this with account after account of how many of the people who signed those affidavits couldn't read and didn't understand what they were signing, and nobody who understands the history of the book takes it seriously.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: He is the way
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,821
73
Las Vegas
✟255,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
*headdesk*

1. Under the law, Walters' actions in stealing those documents were a far more serious crime than anything Joseph was ever accused of in either of these trials.

2. Mormon/LDS Answers: Questions about LDS Prophets and the Mormons -> An honest scholarly analysis of the document reveals it to be a bill for a pre-trial hearing, one conducted to determine if there was enough evidence to even have a full-on trial. Thus, all it does is confirm that something went down; it says nothing of his conviction.


LOL! The guy stole the truth!
 
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,821
73
Las Vegas
✟255,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
The true author of "Mormonism Unvailed" was Philastus Hurlbut, who had been twice ejected from the church for conduct unbecoming. After the second time he was shown the door, he publicly swore bloody vengeance against Joseph Smith, such that even non-Mormon courts ended up having to deal with him and his antics.

The person named as the author of the book was actually its editor, as Hurlbut's reputation in the primary area where the book was to be published had been so damaged by his legal run-ins that even non-Mormon audiences would have refused to read it had his name been on the publication.

Couple this with account after account of how many of the people who signed those affidavits couldn't read and didn't understand what they were signing, and nobody who understands the history of the book takes it seriously.

You know--that poor Lucifer--totally maligned by all those evil angels and God who just did not understand hum., Boo,hoo. All this is really God's fsault, after all, He created us and made us the way we sare and niow wants to kill us for it. Bad God---poor Lucifer.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,821
73
Las Vegas
✟255,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
So are you just fine with this guy destroying public property and stealing because it suits your ends?

I'll leave that decision to God. It is not "my ends"--bottom line, however it was gotten, it is still the truth, which you find objectionable. If the truth had been stolen by a Mormon, and the truth had been to JS's benefit---you'd not be complaining of the method.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Ironhold

Member
Feb 14, 2014
7,625
1,463
✟201,967.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Single
I'll leave that decision to God. It is not "my ends"--bottom line, however it was gotten, it is still the truth, which you find objectionable. If the truth had beedn stolen by a Mormon, and the truth had been to JS's benefit---you'd not be complaining of the method.

It didn't even say what Walters thought it said; it was nothing more than the bill for the pre-trial hearing, which doesn't prove a conviction either way.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: He is the way
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,821
73
Las Vegas
✟255,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
It didn't even say what Walters thought it said; it was nothing more than the bill for the pre-trial hearing, which doesn't prove a conviction either way.

proof of his use of sorcery.

"iscoveries have confirmed the reality of the 1826 pre-trial examination of ‘Joseph Smith The Glass looker’ before Albert Neely, a justice of the peace." (The Creation of the Book of Mormon, LaMar Petersen, Freethinker Press, 1998, pp. 29-32)

"The phrase ‘Glass looker’ appearing on Mr. Neely’s bill is the precise terminology preferred by Joseph Smith himself to describe his crystal gazing occupation and is the same that Mr. Benton adopted five years later to speak of Smith’s use of a peep-stone or glass placed in a hat, which he employed when hired to hunt for hidden treasures. The bill of Constable Philip De Zeng gives further historical evidence and details concerning this trial, by listing:


(click to enlarge)
 
Upvote 0

dzheremi

Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian
Aug 27, 2014
13,500
13,648
✟426,176.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
So are you just fine with this guy destroying public property and stealing because it suits your ends?

Yeah! Destruction of property that isn't yours is only okay when you run a printing press that publishes material critical of Joseph Smith and Joseph Smith tells you to go destroy it!

:|
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Ironhold

Member
Feb 14, 2014
7,625
1,463
✟201,967.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Single
Yeah! Destruction of property that isn't yours is only okay when you run a printing press that publishes material critical of Joseph Smith and Joseph Smith tells you to go destroy it!

:|

That one's been discussed at some length.

While Illinois Common Law allowed for local governments to order the closure of "nuisance" presses, at best Joseph - who was acting mayor - didn't understand the full details of what the law allowed for, hence the order being given for destruction (not allowed) rather than seizure (the maximum allowed).

So yes, everyone admits he screwed up. The only dispute is whether it was malicious or not.
 
Upvote 0