Surviving the Tribulation

[Lisa*Lisa]

I understand your dilemma OP, I"m in the same boat. I think of it this way. Noah was told to build the ark and prepare, he did.

Lot and his family were told to run from the city, and they did.

The israelites were told to go out in the desert, and they did.

God told these people to do things, and they obeyed. He did not do it all for them. He told them to act, and when they did, He provided the rest.

I'm doing what I can, and when I can't do anymore, He will do the rest. Do whatever God puts in your heart to do.

 

[Truth Files]

"Good heavens, you guys make it seem that true Christians who enter the tribulation are going to somehow forget who the real Lord is. You also seem to make it sound we can lose our salvation."

>There will be no "true" christians who will enter the Lord's coming period of wrath and judgment [1Thessalonians 5:1-9; Matthew 25:1-3; Revelation 3:13-19]

.... but many who profess only and are not will enter if alive at the time

>Any who do enter will be faced with unprecedented vexation, deception, and worldwide upheaval .... there will be no escape from it

>If you are alive and enter you will discover that you have been "fence sitting" and you will have to repent and turn to Him .... this will be a very difficult thing for you to do, but possible

>There will be salvation for those who seek Him during the tribulation period .... He will not with draw His offer during the period [Revelation 6:2; 6:9-11; 14:1-7; 14:13]

>Most who do will be martyred for their faith .... and some will survive the tribulation of those days in the physical body and will enter and populate [reporduce in] His millennial kingdom on the earth just after

>But most earth dwellers of the tribulation will perish and will be lost forever .... this number will amount to billions [Revelation 6:8; 9:15; 9:20-21]

 

[Charles Spurgeon]

"Good heavens, you guys make it seem that true Christians who enter the tribulation are going to somehow forget who the real Lord is. You also seem to make it sound we can lose our salvation."

>There will be no "true" christians who will enter the Lord's coming period of wrath and judgment [1Thessalonians 5:1-9; Matthew 25:1-3; Revelation 3:13-19]

.... but many who profess only and are not will enter if alive at the time

>Any who do enter will be faced with unprecedented vexation, deception, and worldwide upheaval .... there will be no escape from it

>If you are alive and enter you will discover that you have been "fence sitting" and you will have to repent and turn to Him .... this will be a very difficult thing for you to do, but possible

>There will be salvation for those who seek Him during the tribulation period .... He will not with draw His offer during the period [Revelation 6:2; 6:9-11; 14:1-7; 14:13]

>Most who do will be martyred for their faith .... and some will survive the tribulation of those days in the physical body and will enter and populate [reporduce in] His millennial kingdom on the earth just after

>But most earth dwellers of the tribulation will perish and will be lost forever .... this number will amount to billions [Revelation 6:8; 9:15; 9:20-21]

Brother, we're all going into the tribulation period. The point is, we're saved, if you're saved. The rapture is not coming until the very end. The only time we'll go to heaven before then, is if we're killed.

Matthew 25:1 and forward, has nothing to do with a pre-trib rapture... if you honestly look at it, all it shows is the Lord's return, and you have the true versus the false Christians.

1 Thess. 5 forward ---- this passage is about the day of the Lord... again the second coming.

Rev 3:13-19 ---- this is only about a false Church.


And yes, I also agree that many will be saved during the tribulation, and yes I also agree many will do die during the tribulation that aren't saved.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

only way to survive the tribulation is to live by faith, and in everything trust God . if we really do that, then prophetic feats will be no problem .

 

[LovedofHim]

Good heavens, you guys make it seem that true Christians who enter the tribulation are going to somehow forget who the real Lord is. You also seem to make it sound we can lose our salvation.

There is absolutely, positively, no biblical proof for a pre-tribulation rapture. I use to believe it myself, until I looked at all the rapture passages... the rapture is right at the end, as the Lord is coming back. It's meant to gather us together.

Look at Matthew 24:29-31. THAT'S IT!!! That whole passage is the key to everything related to the rapture!!

Every Christian that has ever lived has endured the tribulation since it began after Jesus ascended, first for the Jew, then the gentile. Do you really want to tell a person who has died for Christ, mauled by lions, used as torches by Nero, even today imprisoned and persecution, burned to death in churches that they are not undergoing tribulation?

Rom 2:9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;


Jhn 16:33These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Act 14:22Confirming the souls of the disciples, [and] exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

John himself said that he was in tribulation when he was imprisoned on Patmos.

Rev 1:9I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Jesus said that the false christs and false prophets and false miracles rise up after the tribulation is cut short.


Matthew 24:21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


What you are calling "the tribulation" that will be cut short when the day of the Lord begins has been going on for 2000 years. The wrath that we are not appointed to suffer is what the church will be spared from. It is very clear in scripture that the church is not going to be around while the antichrist is here.

In Revelation 12 and 13, the church is "dwelling in heaven", saying "woe to the earth" when the devil is cast down, followed by the antichrist being appointed who then blasphemes the church who is dwelling in heaven.


Rev 12: 10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.




Rev 13:4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

come to think of it, for those living outside of the confines of the posh western world .

the tribulation is now, and where we are living is the beast .

 

[LovedofHim]

come to think of it, for those living outside of the confines of the posh western world .

the tribulation is now, and where we are living is the beast .

NO KIDDING!!!!!!!!!

Even in the posh western world, Christians undergo persecution, wars, pestilence, etc.

It is the wrath of God that we are not appointed to suffer. The final 42 month kingdom, where the devil is in charge, is an instrument of God's wrath to force people to make a choice. The wrath includes a complete upset of power on earth, physical chaos which is sent by God as wrath before Jesus comes to destroy.

 

[Truth Files]

"Brother, we're all going into the tribulation period"

I would say that you will if you believe it .... if you live long enough

Do you think that this passage of scripture is congruent with the tribulation period that you are going into? [Revelation 4:4]

If so, who are the 24 elders?

How about this one? [Revelation 5:9-10]

Who are these who have been redeemed from every kindred, tongue, people, and nation and made kings and priests .... a multitude that no man could number who are in the temple of God and around the throne [Revelation 7:9-17]

How did these get to heaven and when?

Where will you be? .... where they are, or will you be in the tribulation period on the earth?

Do you think this verse of scripture tells of the tribulation period that you are going into ? [Revelation 12:12]

If so, who are those that dwell in heaven in contrast with the inhabiters of the earth?

Do you think that this verse of scripture tells of the tribulation period that you are going into to? [Revelation 11:1]

If so, who are those who are worshiping in the temple of God .... where is this temple? .... and will you be in it .... or some place else?

Do you think this verse of scripture tells of the tribulation that you will enter [Revelation 13:6]

If so, who are those that dwell in heaven? ..... must not be you, correct? .... so who are they and how did they get there?

Do you think that this verse of scripture is a tribulation event? [Revelation 18:4]

If so, when will this coming out take place and will you be among those who come out?

If true, how will you know where to go on the earth and what will you do when you get there?

Do you think that this passage of scripture tells of the ending of the tribulation period? [Revelation 19:11-21]

If so, who comes to the earth with the Lord, where did they come from, and who are they? ..... will you be one of these, or will you still be in the tribulation period in the earth?

Do you think the Lord will keep the living believer at the time from harm during His coming period of wrath and judgment? [1Thessalonians 5:1-9; Revelation 3:10]

If so, why does Revelation explicitly tell of martyrdom and death for those who become believers during the period? [Revelation 6:9-11; 13:15; 14:13; 20:4(those beheaded)]

How do you explain this apparent contradiction?

And will you be one of those who have kept the truth [Revelation 3:10] ..... or one of those who will be on the outside of the door and spewed into the tribulation period because you have not keep the truth? [Revelation 3:15-20]

How about this .... will you be a virgin with oil .... or one without [Matthew 25:1-13]

I have no ambition to convince you that the Lord intends to immortalize the church before he brings His wrath and judgment upon an intransigent unbelieving world .... this you will have to discover for yourself

 

[laconicstudent]

Why should Christians be trying to survive? Instead of hiding out in a bunker on a deserted island with bottled water and freeze-dried food, shouldn't you be out winning a martyr's crown and advancing the Church as much you can?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

NO KIDDING!!!!!!!!!

Even in the posh western world, Christians undergo persecution, wars, pestilence, etc.

It is the wrath of God that we are not appointed to suffer. The final 42 month kingdom, where the devil is in charge, is an instrument of God's wrath to force people to make a choice. The wrath includes a complete upset of power on earth, physical chaos which is sent by God as wrath before Jesus comes to destroy.

Yes even here, a lot of it is more covert.

i tend to take the wrath spoken of in that passage to mean damnation as it is contrasting light and darkness and its pair in that particular passage is "salvation" but that may work into what you were saying as the beast does offer a mark of that tenor.

 

[Truth Files]

"Every Christian that has ever lived has endured the tribulation since it began"

Really? ..... every christian and when did this "tribulation" begin?

How about those living before the Lord's first advent .... did any have tribulation, or persecution .... and what about the pre-deluvian world ..... any tribulation and wrath from the Lord?

Do you really think that every believer in Jesus Christ has suffered the Lord's tribulation and judgment? [Psalms 2]

And how will those who are asleep in the Lord [the dead in Christ] suffer His coming period of tribulation that you think you will experience?

I can tell you that there have been and are believers who have not suffered tribulation directly because of their faith .... how do you explain this fact?

What you need to learn is that the Lord's wrath and judgment is very different than the trials and tribulations of this short trouble filled life .... not the same thing

 

[Happy Hearts Club]

Good Grief!-What an unbiblical, fear filled, OP!

/agree

 

[Happy Hearts Club]

well, IMO no one is slaughtered in the trib....
no one will be hunted down and be-headed etc...
imo that is fantasy....

Christians will be tested, but not systematically killed

"He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time." -Daniel 7

"It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation." -Revelations 13

The saints shall be "given into his hand", he shall "overcome" them, he shall "persecute" them. I do not intend to offend, but you are presenting very weak theology. The beast/little horn/anti-christ is going to wage war against the saints present throughout the GT and it is not going to be a mere "testing".

 

[NightHawkeye]

"He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time." -Daniel 7

"It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation." -Revelations 13

The saints shall be "given into his hand", he shall "overcome" them, he shall "persecute" them. I do not intend to offend, but you are presenting very weak theology. The beast/little horn/anti-christ is going to wage war against the saints present throughout the GT and it is not going to be a mere "testing".

Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


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[Happy Hearts Club]

Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


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"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

The woman isn't the body of believers if that's what you're implying

 

[NightHawkeye]

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

The woman isn't the body of believers if that's what you're implying

Micah 4:1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
...
9 Now why dost thou cry out aloud? is there no king in thee? is thy counseller perished? for pangs have taken thee as a woman in travail.
10 Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt go even to Babylon; there shalt thou be delivered; there the LORD shall redeem thee from the hand of thine enemies.
11 Now also many nations are gathered against thee, that say, Let her be defiled, and let our eye look upon Zion.
12 But they know not the thoughts of the LORD, neither understand they his counsel: for he shall gather them as the sheaves into the floor.
13 Arise and thresh, O daughter of Zion: for I will make thine horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass: and thou shalt beat in pieces many people: and I will consecrate their gain unto the LORD, and their substance unto the Lord of the whole earth.

Jeremiah 4:31 For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.

Isaiah 54:1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.
2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.
5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
6 For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.
8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.
9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.
11 O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires.
12 And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones.
13 And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.
14 In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.
15 Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake.
16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.
17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.


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[Migdala]

Migdala - I'm Sorry - but you're wrong because - even the Elect would be deceived, if that were possible.
MANY people, Christians included, will be deceived.
He will appear to be a "Good Guy". Why wouldn't you be fooled?
What kind of person are you looking for?

Maybe the "elect" are Jews, who are already unbelievers? I don't see how any Christian would be fooled, because we know that Yeshua will come in the clouds....we will not be looking for Him here on earth. He has already come to earth, died for our sins, was resurrected, and is in Heaven, with Father. When He comes back to earth, He will come back to gather His saints at the last trumpet, after the Tribulation.

Why would anyone look at a guy here on earth who claims to be God? We know where our Messiah is right now, and we know how He will come back-in the clouds....the same way He left us!

By the time the Tribulation gets here, the world will be in such torment....the AntiChrist is going to bring peace and happiness in the world, and those who do not believe that Yeshua is the Messiah, or those who do not study the Bible, will embrace Him as their Messiah because
1. They won't know how He left and how He is to return, because they have not studied the Bible.
2. They have not believed Yeshua was really the Messiah, so they would still be looking for someone to bring peace to the earth. This sounds like Jews to me. Just speculation of course.

I may be way off base, but I just don't see how a Christian who knows how Yeshua will return can honestly look at some guy running around claiming to be God and think He is. Especially with all the "antichrists" who are already doing it in the world as we speak.

I mean-if a person studies the Bible and they know that Yeshua is to return in the clouds to gather us up, and He tells us not to believe it when others say they are Him-and to not look for Him here on the earth, and that He will return the same way He left......how can a Christian be deceived by some guy walking around claiming to be God, even if he is doing a lot of miracles?

Maybe that is why there are a lot of charismatic pastors out there who are healing (through God of course), people are falling out in the Spirit left and right, people are being raised from the dead, etc. etc.....maybe God is allowing these spiritual signs to happen so that we can know that not everyone who does miracles is the Messiah (for those who are still looking for Him)? I mean, look at Benny Hinn for instance...I'm sure that if he got up there, waved a towel and the whole audience was slain in the Spirit, and then he claimed to be God, a lot of people would be deceived if they had not read their Bible....just an observation.

 

[NightHawkeye]

I may be way off base, but I just don't see how a Christian who knows how Yeshua will return can honestly look at some guy running around claiming to be God and think He is. Especially with all the "antichrists" who are already doing it in the world as we speak.

Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
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Consider Marxism/communism/socialism ... blasphemous abominations which only enslave, lacking truth ... replacing God with materialism -- material equality for all, or somesuch nonsense.

"End justifies the means" ... unprincipled, anything goes ...


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[yeshuasavedme]

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

The woman isn't the body of believers if that's what you're implying

Correct.
The Woman is Zion of the Spirit, personified. She is in the Word from Genesis 3:15 to the end of Revelation. personified as a Woman.

She is our "Mother", the Church, and her children who are the remnant who keep the Law in the last days are the remnant of Israel/Jacob, who turn to the LORD after the Gentile harvest is ingathered.

 

[jonahthesign]

Maybe the "elect" are Jews, who are already unbelievers? I don't see how any Christian would be fooled

I wonder the same thing but then, all you got to do is google interfaith churches and see for yourself how possible it really is for lukewarm Christians to be fooled.

Daniel 8:12
And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered

A host being a group of Christians was given him (antichrist) by reason of transgression. They broke the new covenant, they went back and worshiped another god.

You will find pictures of 'Christians', amongst others faiths, in Baha'i groups worshiping Bahaullah on the internet. It really is hard to believe.

When they're already in this deep also, all that is needed are the signs and lying wonders to strengthen their faith in the wrong guy.