Surviving the Tribulation

[yeshuasavedme]

Maybe the "elect" are Jews, who are already unbelievers? .

You are correct in that the "elect" in the tribulation are the remnant of Jacob.

In Ezekiel 20:33-44, the living of the seed of Jacob are gathered from the entire world at the end of the tribulation, by angels, and brought to the wilderness [at Sinai, as Enoch said], where they are passed under the Rod of God -the sceptre of the Son of Man who returns as the Firstborn of earth, the High Priest and High King of it, to rule it. They are passed under the Rod and the rebels are purged out from among them and cast into the Lake of fire. They do not even die first, but have judgment passed on them right then and there. They are gathered from the nations to Sinai, but they do not all enter into the promised Land, to dwell there in the Millennial Kingdom as "the Blessed of YHWH".

Therefore: in Matthew the elect are Jacob;s seed, who are gathered from the ends of heaven [those who were martyred in the tribulation] and the living from all nations are gathered by angels and brought to stand before Jesus at Sinai, and the elect who were martyred in the tribulation are given their rewards to reign and rule with Him [the Gentiles are not in this, as they who were raptured pre-trib already have their rewards at that time], and the living elect are judged for entry into the millennial reign or casting away, into the Lake of Fire.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The passages in Matthew 24 and 25 [after the above[ speak to the Jews: then, Jesus gets around to speaking of the gathering at the end of the tribulation of all Gentiles of all the nations, when He returns to set up His millennial reign and to cleanse the earth of all things that offend. They are not the elect of that time, and they are gathered by angels and separated into goat Gentiles and sheep Gentiles. The "elect" are the Jews, of those passages, and they are not the Gentiles, during the tribulation nor after it.

The sheep Gentiles enter into the millennial reign with the "elect" Jews who remain after passing under the Rod of God at Sinai, and the goat Gentiles are cast alive, body and soul, without dying, into the Lake of Fire.

The Tares gathered by the angels at the end of the tribulation are the seed of the fallen angels, the disembodied nephillim, who roam earth as the demons, tormenting and afflicting the sons of Adam. Also, there is reason to believe that there are nephillim in bodies who have not died in those bodies, and they seem to be a last days set of nephillim born of fallen angels in the last days, on earth.
At any rate, they are the ones whose bodies will not rise, for they were got in illegal iniquity from the wives taken of the daughters of Adam and they are not of God's making and they are stolen in iniquity bodies that will not rise -"they are the dead/, they will not rise". -I suspect that their bodies are those that will burn without ceasing in the millennial reign, whose burning bodies are looked upon by all the inhabitants of earth for the millennial reign, as a lesson about that iniquity for those "Blessed of YHWH [sheep Gentiles and "elect" remnant of Jacob who enter into the millennial kingdom].


Mat 25:31 ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Why do the righteous [sheep Gentiles] go into the millennial kingdom, to produce babies in non-regenerated bodies, but into life eternal? -because there is no more death for the righteous, but after they live in their bodies for the Millennial Day -the entire thousand years- they are translated to bodies of glory. They are not the Church. The "Church" will already have their translated bodies at the beginning of the tribulation.


So the Word tells us that when Jesus returns the "tares" -weeds not of God sown by the enemy in the world- are gathered by angels and burned in the Lake of Fire;
and the Word tells us that when Jesus returns the "elect" are gathered by angels and taken to Mt Sinai to be passed under the Rod of God, with the rebels purged out and not able to enter into the promised land for the millennial kingdom;
and the Word tells us that when Jesus returns the remaining alive Gentiles are gathered as goat Gentiles and as sheep Gentiles, and the sheep enter into the millennial reign, as the Blessed of YHWH, and the goats are cast into the Lake of Fire, where the rebel "Elect" and the tares are also cast.

There is no "Church" on earth to be gathered by any angels when Jesus returns, because the Gentiles [and Jews] both the living and the dead, who are in Christ, will be ingathered into the "barn/Zion above" [where the Seed was from that came incarnate as Christ in flesh, as Haggai 2 states], by the power of the Holy Spirit in them, in their regenerated New Man bodies, and made priests and kings in those regenerated bodies, to rule in the heavenly realm with the Watcher angels who never fell, for the entire Millennial reign.

 

[Truth Files]

I would substantially agree with the above posting regarding the elect of Israel and of the gentiles of the nations

These gatherings are not resurrections, but of the surviving mortals of the tribulation period

The elect of Matthew 24:29-31 are believing ethnic Israelites [Isaiah 11:11-12; 27:13]

The Lord will then gather those mortal survivors of the gentile nations and separate them for entrance into His millennial kingdom on the earth [Matthew 25:31-46]

 

[LovedofHim]

"Every Christian that has ever lived has endured the tribulation since it began"

Really? ..... every christian and when did this "tribulation" begin?

How about those living before the Lord's first advent .... did any have tribulation, or persecution .... and what about the pre-deluvian world ..... any tribulation and wrath from the Lord?

Do you really think that every believer in Jesus Christ has suffered the Lord's tribulation and judgment? [Psalms 2]

And how will those who are asleep in the Lord [the dead in Christ] suffer His coming period of tribulation that you think you will experience?

I can tell you that there have been and are believers who have not suffered tribulation directly because of their faith .... how do you explain this fact?

What you need to learn is that the Lord's wrath and judgment is very different than the trials and tribulations of this short trouble filled life .... not the same thing

It began when Jesus ascended as the slain Lamb, took the scroll from the Father, and sent out the first four seals described as horses/riders, which God says are His "four dreadful judgments" sent out into the world to take away peace. This is the great tribulation and they have been riding since Christ ascended and sent them out.

Revelation 5


1And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
2And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
5And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. 7And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

Ezekiel 14:21For thus saith the Lord GOD; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?


Revelation 6:8 ..And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.


Zechariah 6


1And I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass.
2In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses;
3And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses.
4Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord?
5And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the LORD of all the earth.
6The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country.
7And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth: and he said, Get you hence, walk to and fro through the earth. So they walked to and fro through the earth. 8Then cried he upon me, and spake unto me, saying, Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country.



Zech 1:8I saw by night, and behold a man riding upon a red horse, and he stood among the myrtle trees that were in the bottom; and behind him were there red horses, speckled, and white.
9Then said I, O my lord, what are these? And the angel that talked with me said unto me, I will shew thee what these be.
10And the man that stood among the myrtle trees answered and said, These are they whom the LORD hath sent to walk to and fro through the earth. 11And they answered the angel of the LORD that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest.



Every Christian has endured the great tribulation. Jesus said it will be cut short suddenly just before the time of the 6th seal, followed by the day of the Lord, also known as the day of wrath during which the devil has been cast to the earth to empower the final kingdom and the leader thereof.

Mat 24: 29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


Rev 6:12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?




Revelation 7 describes the church standing in heaven at a very specific moment in time. (after tribulation which ends before 6th seal, before the day of wrath which begins in 6th seal) We know this is the church because they are overcomers by the blood of the Lamb. There is no other group of people in all of human history that does anything in the blood of the Lamb - only the church.



Revelation 7:9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

[Migdala]

Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
​

Consider Marxism/communism/socialism ... blasphemous abominations which only enslave, lacking truth ... replacing God with materialism -- material equality for all, or somesuch nonsense.

"End justifies the means" ... unprincipled, anything goes ...


.

Yes-but look at verse 8 above....it says that they will worship him whose names are not written in the Book of Life....see? They are already unbelievers to begin with! Of course they would be deceived.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Yes-but look at verse 8 above....it says that they will worship him whose names are not written in the Book of Life....see? They are already unbelievers to begin with! Of course they would be deceived.

Young's Literal Translation offers an interesting perspective on verse 8:

Rev 13:8 And bow before it shall all who are dwelling upon the land, whose names have not been written in the scroll of the life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world;
​

The "worship" here is entirely appropriate for non-believers, simply "bow". Similarly the object of worship is a thing, "it", not a God. Again, this befits the materialism of communism/Marxism/socialism, where many feel entitled to the fruits of the labor of others.

Looking at the lexicon Revelation 13:8 Bible Lexicon confirms the legitimacy of the literal translation.


.

 

[Migdala]

Young's Literal Translation offers an interesting perspective on verse 8:

Rev 13:8 And bow before it shall all who are dwelling upon the land, whose names have not been written in the scroll of the life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world;
​

The "worship" here is entirely appropriate for non-believers, simply "bow". Similarly the object of worship is a thing, "it", not a God. Again, this befits the materialism of communism/Marxism/socialism, where many feel entitled to the fruits of the labor of others.

Looking at the lexicon Revelation 13:8 Bible Lexicon confirms the legitimacy of the literal translation.


.

Wow...very interesting! You sound a lot like me...I've gotten to where I look up the original Hebrew and Greek words a lot when I'm studying a verse.

 

[Happy Hearts Club]

Note: I only want those who believe in the post-tribulation rapture to post to this. Sorry, no pre-tribbers.

Thanks

Alright, how should we plan properly to survive the Tribulation... it seems that it could be in our lifetime. I know from Revelation 3:10 that the Lord will ultimately protect us... but obviously somehow the Lord is going to allow the evil ones to slaughter a lot of us... But until that point... we can figure out how to survive it.

Should we hide in the woods/wilderness?
Should we try to build hidden, and secret underground bunkers?
There's an Island I'm thinking of that's 3 1/2 hours away from me, that only has about 350 year round residents on it, and is 53 square miles. Do you think hiding within the woods and state land on this Island would protect me?

What I'm worried about: Food supplies will be wiped out within a few years of the tribulation. Therefore MREs or freeze-dried foods will have to be stocked in the tonnage just to even allow one person to survive, let alone a family.

Fresh-water sources will probably be destroyed, at least a third of them... therefore should 500 gallon tanks be buried underground, and filled with fresh water before the tribulation starts? My dad use to own this green 300-500 gallon farm tank that would go on the back of a truck... maybe 3-4 of these could be buried and tied in with your bunker in the woods.

What about self-defense, should we as Christians try to do away with those who try to do away with us? Or if we're found out, should we just let it be? Should we carry a few guns? Should we buy bullet-proof armor and etc?

Another worry: spy satellites with infrared technology... how could a person hide in the woods and not have a satellite track you? Does anyway know of any anti-ir clothing and technology that could be used?

How should we try to survive this? My guess is that the trib could start within 20 years, but I'm unsure...

Assuming post-tribulation to be reality, there is no point at all to try and plan out some sort of survival guide. You are going to die. If not by the various events of sheer supernatural destruction, then by simply refusing to worship the Beast (meaning the anti-christ, satan's "advocate").

"He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed." Revelations 11:15

 

[NightHawkeye]

Wow...very interesting! You sound a lot like me...I've gotten to where I look up the original Hebrew and Greek words a lot when I'm studying a verse.

LOL. Time and language changes have have not exactly fostered accuracy in translation.


.

 

[B1inHim]

Assuming post-tribulation to be reality, there is no point at all to try and plan out some sort of survival guide. You are going to die. If not by the various events of sheer supernatural destruction, then by simply refusing to worship the Beast (meaning the anti-christ, satan's "advocate").

"He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed." Revelations 11:15

Amen

There is absolutely no reason to make out a plan for survival...
Matthew 25

The Parable of the Ten Virgins

1 “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 4 The wise ones, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 5 The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep. 6 “At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’
7 “Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8 The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’
9 “‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’
10 “But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.
11 “Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’
12 “But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’
13 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

Just being ready, willing and available... after all, this is what will be happening to those of us who DO end up living long enough...

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death.

By and in His Love,
Brother Jerry

 

[zeke37]

Assuming post-tribulation to be reality, there is no point at all to try and plan out some sort of survival guide. You are going to die. If not by the various events of sheer supernatural destruction, then by simply refusing to worship the Beast (meaning the anti-christ, satan's "advocate").

"He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed." Revelations 11:15

IMO that is a bad translation...and a misquote.....you are thinking of Rev13, not Rev11

but Rev11:15 is the 7th trump and the gathering to Christ (woooohooooo )

as for 13....
"should be killed" is more of a threat, as read in the KJV

I think it means that,
since this son of Perdition (Satan) is pretending to be Jesus Christ returned,
who ever does not believe in him will not live forever...
deception/seduction

and besides that, the 144,000 are protected, not killed...
they are likewise the protected ones of Luke21,
not even a hair on their head is harmed....
even while being delivered up before Satan (who is Mr. death)

all this beheading and killing Christians is fantasy...
and not dividing scripture properly...

there is a spiritual death and literal death...

so, therefore, if physical protection is promised to a certain end time group, even if death is mentioned, a literal death is not possible.




you guys are just wrong...there is no pre "son of Perdition" rapture

the 144,000 are all Christians, of the scattered 12 tribes, not Jews

they are Christians before the 4 winds blow the hour of temptation (Satan's wrath, not the Lord's wrath)

sealed before the 4 winds (same 4 winds of OT prophesy) blow.



I want you guys/gals to note a few things...

the 6th seal is seen in detail in the chapters of Rev that follow.
the mention of wrath in Rev6's 6th seal does not mean that you are not going to be here for the events of the following chapters.

the events are retold, but in finer detail...just like in Daniel's end time visions.

the wrath /time of the dead... is mentioned as actually beginning in Rev11's 7th trump

and the same time-frame (The Lord's Coming and the time of the dead) can be shown to be at the 7th vial as well...



note that :

God already defined the candlesticks as churches in Rev1,
done deal....

and 2 of them are clearly against the beast in Rev11...
well, 2 are NOT chastized by Christ and share the same doctrine, in Rev2-3...
so no wonder there are 2 against the beast.


and note that :

Satan goes after Christians in Rev12's short time


and note that :

God warns us that He comes like a thief, even as late as between the 6th and 7th vial


and note that :

God calls His people out of Babylon in Rev18


there is plenty more too! but let's start with those...

 

[LovedofHim]

IMO that is a bad translation...and a misquote.....you are thinking of Rev13, not Rev11

but Rev11:15 is the 7th trump and the gathering to Christ (woooohooooo )

as for 13....
"should be killed" is more of a threat, as read in the KJV

I think it means that,
since this son of Perdition (Satan) is pretending to be Jesus Christ returned,
who ever does not believe in him will not live forever...
deception/seduction

and besides that, the 144,000 are protected, not killed...
they are likewise the protected ones of Luke21,
not even a hair on their head is harmed....
even while being delivered up before Satan (who is Mr. death)

all this beheading and killing Christians is fantasy...
and not dividing scripture properly...

there is a spiritual death and literal death...

so, therefore, if physical protection is promised to a certain end time group, even if death is mentioned, a literal death is not possible.




you guys are just wrong...there is no pre "son of Perdition" rapture

the 144,000 are all Christians, of the scattered 12 tribes, not Jews

they are Christians before the 4 winds blow the hour of temptation (Satan's wrath, not the Lord's wrath)

sealed before the 4 winds (same 4 winds of OT prophesy) blow.



I want you guys/gals to note a few things...

the 6th seal is seen in detail in the chapters of Rev that follow.
the mention of wrath in Rev6's 6th seal does not mean that you are not going to be here for the events of the following chapters.

the events are retold, but in finer detail...just like in Daniel's end time visions.

the wrath /time of the dead... is mentioned as actually beginning in Rev11's 7th trump

and the same time-frame (The Lord's Coming and the time of the dead) can be shown to be at the 7th vial as well...



note that :

God already defined the candlesticks as churches in Rev1,
done deal....

and 2 of them are clearly against the beast in Rev11...
well, 2 are NOT chastized by Christ and share the same doctrine, in Rev2-3...
so no wonder there are 2 against the beast.


and note that :

Satan goes after Christians in Rev12's short time


and note that :

God warns us that He comes like a thief, even as late as between the 6th and 7th vial


and note that :

God calls His people out of Babylon in Rev18


there is plenty more too! but let's start with those...

And yet, virtually none of what you have declared is Biblically accurate.

There is no resurrection and gathering at the 7th trumpet.

The 144,000 of Revelation 7 is Jews, of the 12 tribes of Israel, just as it says.

I couldn't read anymore after that.

 

[Happy Hearts Club]

IMO that is a bad translation...and a misquote.....you are thinking of Rev13, not Rev11

15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
KJV

15And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even [a]speak and cause (A)as many as do not (B)worship the image of the beast to be killed.
NASB

15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
NIV

15 He was then permitted to give life to this statue so that it could speak. Then the statue of the beast commanded that anyone refusing to worship it must die.
NLT

It is in your opinion a bad translation and a misquote? Apparently your opinion has nothing to do with scripture. To me it just seems like a post-trib believer trying to ease his mind.

but Rev11:15 is the 7th trump and the gathering to Christ (woooohooooo

)

as for 13....
"should be killed" is more of a threat, as read in the KJV

Nope.

I think it means that,
since this son of Perdition (Satan) is pretending to be Jesus Christ returned,
who ever does not believe in him will not live forever...
deception/seduction

and besides that, the 144,000 are protected, not killed...
they are likewise the protected ones of Luke21,
not even a hair on their head is harmed....
even while being delivered up before Satan (who is Mr. death)

all this beheading and killing Christians is fantasy...
and not dividing scripture properly...

No one said anything about beheading, but killing definitely. The only fantasy here is you trying to water down what we are told that will take place at that time.

there is a spiritual death and literal death...

so, therefore, if physical protection is promised to a certain end time group, even if death is mentioned, a literal death is not possible.

According to you? Ironically, scrpture indicates otherwise, and interpretation isn't even needed, it can be understood by reading it simply

you guys are just wrong...there is no pre "son of Perdition" rapture

Maybe, maybe not, but the main debate is about pre-GT rapture, of which there is plenty of evidence to prove.

 

[B1inHim]

And yet, virtually none of what you have declared is Biblically accurate.

There is no resurrection and gathering at the 7th trumpet.

The 144,000 of Revelation 7 is Jews, of the 12 tribes of Israel, just as it says.

I couldn't read anymore after that.

Hi, I have had this conversation with the same person for maybe several years now.
It is important to be concise in anything that we say concerning the 144,000.

They are "of all the tribes of the children of Israel".

To simply place the designation name tag of "Jew" to describe all of the 144,000 is biblically incorrect.

There is one tribe of "Juda" and 11 others.

12,000 of the tribe of Juda will be sealed along with the 12,000 of each of the other 11 tribes.

That is what Revelation 7 says.
4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

By calling them all Jews we set ourselves up to have long and irrelevant dialog with those who do not see that when some of us say "the 144,000 are all Jews..." we do not mean that they are all literally from the tribe of Juda, only that we have as a society learned that anyone who is a Jew, be it of the tribe of Aser, Simeon, Zabulon or Juda is a "Jew", period.

Kinda like we have Native American's, Asian American's, Afro American's... but they are all, still, just simply put, American's.

No matter who say's that the 144,000 do not have to be specifically from the literal bloodline of the children of Israel, is not correct.

No matter who claims that they do not have to be physical virgins are not correct.

And there is absolutely no scriptural foundation to anyone outside of the 144,000 being kept safe from the outcome of both the wrath of God nor the wrath of Satan.

The post-trib rapture teaching is like a formula to create God by the hands of men.
It uses scriptures out of context to produce an image that looks like God, but completely ignores Rev. 7:9-17 as being a rapture.

Nothing in scripture tells us that the Great Multitude all died before getting there.
Conjecture, supposition and hypothesis support this notion.

Nothing tells us that they were "raptured" in order to get there but I believe that this is that mystery that is spoken of in I Cor 15:51 and is again mentioned in Rev 10:7.

Their intent is commendable, they believe that we all stay here till the VERY END and direct us to follow their prescription of verses in order to make it through the entire GT.

But, have you ever heard any of these post-trib teachers attempt to teach us HOW to make it through the GT?

I have yet to see any of this type of teaching come from their camp.

All they want to do is convince us that they are correct and then try to lead us through a maze of scripture to show us how unfowlably and indisputably correct they are.

We have not made it to the day of time that Rev.7 as of yet.

However, we will do so in this generation.

On a side note, I would like to include how wonderful it will be to be before the throne during the last part of the GT, Gods wrath and Satan's wrath.

Worshiping our Lord till it is time to return with Him in Rev. 19.

****EDITED****

Rev. 7:9-17 is that manifestation of salvation obtained by our Lord Jesus Christ.
GLORY to GOD.

We do not need to stockpile supplies.
We do not need to search out a safe haven of refuge.

All we need to do is do what Lord Jesus told us to do, period.

Matthew 7:
True and False Disciples

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

The Wise and Foolish Builders

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”
Matthew 25

The Parable of the Ten Virgins

1 “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise.3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them.4 The wise ones, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps.5 The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep. 6 “At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’
7 “Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps.8 The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’
9 “‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’
10 “But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.
11 “Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’
12 “But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’
13 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
By and in His Love,
Brother Jerry

AND the OP is about surviving the tribulation...
YouTube - THE Rapture

 

[Truth Files]

The Lord is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah [Revelation 5:5]

His is still the Messiah and King of Israel

He will keep His promises for a believing remnant part of national Israel [Jeremiah 30,31; Exekiel 36; Daniel 9:24-27; Zecharian 13:8-9; 14:4-5; Matthew 24:15-16; 24:29-31; Romans 11:25-36; Revelation 12:6; 12:14]

He will lead the 144000 of the sealed children of Israel [the first portion of the believing remnant ....the "many" noted in Daniel 9], and these will preach His gospel to Israel and the nations during the tribulation period [Revelation 7:1-8]

All six objectives will be reached as listed for this believing remnant during the coming 70th week decreed [Daniel 9:24]

And these will enter and populate His coming millennial kingdom [Isaiah 11"11-12; 27:13; Matthew 24:29-31] .... as mortals [Acts 1:6]

He will also keep His promise to His church of today composed of a few Israelites and the balance of the gentiles of the nations [1Thessalonians 5:1-19; Revelation 3:10] and these appear in heaven just before, during, and at the end of the tribulation period in Revelation's unfolding [Revelation 4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 12:12; 17:14; 19:1-9; 19:11-21; 20:4(those on thrones)]

 

[realtruth101]

at this point in time it appears the Mennonites and the Amish are about the only followers of Christ who took the scriptures to heart, and are prepared for not only seven years but a lifetime if need be. Actually Belize has a large group of Mennonites that control 95% of all the food produced in that country......Hmmm Belize is actually pretty beautiful to, and has a whole slew of islanders to minister to while you wait on the Lord, I guess if you had to wait some where, I couldn't think of a more secure place

 

[LovedofHim]

Hi, I have had this conversation with the same person for maybe several years now.
It is important to be concise in anything that we say concerning the 144,000.

They are "of all the tribes of the children of Israel".

To simply place the designation name tag of "Jew" to describe all of the 144,000 is biblically incorrect.

Revelation 7 is clear who the 144,000 of Israel are. I'll defer to Revelation 7.

 

[zeke37]

And yet, virtually none of what you have declared is Biblically accurate.

There is no resurrection and gathering at the 7th trumpet.

The 144,000 of Revelation 7 is Jews, of the 12 tribes of Israel, just as it says.

I couldn't read anymore after that.

15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.


this is one of the many looks at His 1 future Coming seen in Rev....

as you might have notices, there is no "gathering mentioned in the 6th seal...


and by the way, Israel does not = jew...

the 144,000 are NOT JEWS.....

only Judah and Benjamin are considered Jews even today....

there are 2 houses...there are 12 tribes.

you leave out a whole house and 10 of 12 tribes by calling them all Jews.

get it?

 

[LovedofHim]

15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.


this is one of the many looks at His 1 future Coming seen in Rev....

as you might have notices, there is no "gathering mentioned in the 6th seal...


and by the way, Israel does not = jew...

the 144,000 are NOT JEWS.....

only Judah and Benjamin are considered Jews even today....

there are 2 houses...there are 12 tribes.

you leave out a whole house and 10 of 12 tribes by calling them all Jews.

get it?

The church is given white robes in the 5th seal and is seen wearing them in heaven before the 7th seal.

Someone is causing the sun and moon to darken and the stars to fall, casting the devil to the earth, sending the trumpet judgments and the bowls. It's Jesus, because He has returned and is pouring out his wrath before He comes to destroy.

The 144,000 of Israel who are sealed in Revelation 7 before the wrath begins are exactly who God says that they are in Revelation 7.

 

[B1inHim]

And these will enter and populate His coming millennial kingdom [Isaiah 11"11-12; 27:13; Matthew 24:29-31] .... as mortals [Acts 1:6]

Is. 11:11 In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the surviving remnant of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the Mediterranean. 12 He will raise a banner for the nations
and gather the exiles of Israel;
he will assemble the scattered people of Judah
from the four quarters of the earth.

Is. 27:13 And in that day a great trumpet will sound. Those who were perishing in Assyria and those who were exiled in Egypt will come and worship the LORD on the holy mountain in Jerusalem.

Matt. 24: 29 “Immediately after the distress of those days “‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.


Acts 1:6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?

There is absolutely NOTHING in ANY of the scriptures that you referenced in the above statement.

And these will enter and populate His coming millennial kingdom [Isaiah 11"11-12; 27:13; Matthew 24:29-31] .... as mortals [Acts 1:6]

Not going to happen like you have shown because that is not even mentioned in the bible as to who will populate the Millennial Sabbath.

NOT, period.

But some of the rest of that post is good

By and in His Love,
Brother Jerry
YouTube - Toby Mac #1 Lose My Soul

 

[B1inHim]

The church is given white robes in the 5th seal and is seen wearing them in heaven before the 7th seal.
.

No, 5thseal people are not mentioned in Rev 7.

The ones in the 5th seal could and most likely are in the the group in Rev. 7, but they are not named or even mentioned there.

And it is NOT the church being given white robes in the 5th seal either...
Rev. 6:9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.

These are ONLY the martyred saints for "the word of God and the testimony they had maintained."

Not all of the church.

The Great Multitude is who is mentioned in Rev.7.

By and in His Love,
Brother Jerry
YouTube - What a Wonderful World