Surely Premils must invent 2 future glorifications days separated by 1000 years+?

[sovereigngrace]

Jesus didn't give signs of 60 pound hailstones, demon armies, and water turning to blood as signs before His coming to His disciples, Paul wrote that we're not appointed to wrath, Isaiah wrote that there's a resurrection followed by hiding from Indignation in Isaiah 26:19-21, and the Lord's wrath begins after the 6th seal but before the trumpets in Revelation 6:12-17. Shown again in Revelation 14:14-20 before the 7 bowls. The fifth trumpet lasts 5 months so it's not a single day of judgement.

Meaning that Jesus comes back, resurrects and gathers His elect as in 1 Thessalonians 4 and Matthew 24, THEN delivers His wrath that takes bare minimum 5 months.

There is a period of time then after the rapture but before Armageddon, where there's 144,000 preaching the gospel, so, people can still get saved or what's the point of preaching the Gospel? Revelation 11:13 has the remnant in Jerusalem all giving glory to God, I interpret that as God fulfilling His promise that Israel will be saved. But this is right before the 7th trumpet judgement, the wrath of God has been going on for months now, and Jesus had already come back in the clouds. If Israel is saved before the 7th trumpet judgement but after the wrath of God has already begun and they missed the rapture, then what? There is no resurrection for them?
Revelation 20 does give them a resurrection, after the millennium.

No time occurs after the rapture. We are into eternity.

 

[GenemZ]

No time occurs after the rapture. We are into eternity.

OK.......

pass the popcorn. This guy just wants to fight. Loves controversy.

There comes a point where we are warned not to continue to argue with you..

If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the
sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords
with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing.
He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about
words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions. 1 Tim 6:3-4
​

I think I am going to take the peaceful way with you. For you understand nothing. Yet.. You know too many verses to be with excuse! You are defending an agenda.. not the Truth.

If you were a baby Christian seeking truth, I would spend more time with you. For they could receive and understand what I share here. If a baby Christian were confused, I would take the time to clarify. As for you? You crave for controversy. Paul said that there will be some who choose to remain as that way of their flesh.

​

 

[Jamdoc]

Not to mention, you all have a gross misinterpretation of what the Parousia is.

The first coming of Jesus was not just His birth. it was every event from His birth to His ascension.
His second coming is everything after the sun and moon darken up through eternity. The second coming never ends. It is not one momentary event it is an enduring presence. Parousia means presence, not just the arrival.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Stop using code words if you wish to communicate. Too much time is wasted because of your laziness and presumption. I am sure I know what GWT is. Just not as you present it in your ploy to frustrate and obfuscate.

Careful... you can be counter-sued.

Not so. Most posters will know i am talking about the great white throne. Please stop your unfair charges.

 

[BABerean2]

Common sense from what is read that people will still be procreating and being born.

No longer will they build houses and others live in them,
or plant and others eat.
For as the days of a tree,
so will be the days of my people;
my chosen ones will long enjoy
the work of their hands.
They will not labor in vain,
nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune;
for they will be a people blessed by the Lord,
they and their descendants with them." Isa 65:22-23​

There will be no more sexual reproduction in the Final New heavens and new earth. No more sea. And, no more sun to light the world.

I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty
and the Lamb are its temple. The city does not need the sun or
the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. The nations will walk by its light, and the kings
of the earth will bring their splendor into it." Rev 21:22-23

Yet, there will be a seas and water in the the new earth of the Millennium.


"I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim and the horse from Jerusalem; the battle bow shall be cut off. He shall speak peace to the nations; His dominion shall be 'from sea to sea, and from the River to the ends of the earth.' " Zechariah 9:10


But? In the second New heavens and Earth there will be no more seas!


"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more." Rev 21:1

The first earth passes away because it will be burned up (with the entire universe)
like 2 Peter 3:10, tells us!

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare."

Nuclear fusion/fission! " For the elements will be destroyed by fire."

Its the same Greek word used for Chemistry class to classify the "elements"

Revelation 20: Does your interpretation agree with all other scripture?

(Chronological or Recapitulation?) (Literal vs. Figurative?)

Based on the following scripture, will immortals and mortals both live on earth for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will there be renewed animal sacrifices in earthly Jerusalem for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will Christ conduct funeral services for mortals killed in accidents many years after His Second Coming? Graveyards needed?


Can the following questions be examined without ridicule, and condemnation, based on the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24?

Can the number 1,000 be used in a symbolic manner? Psalm 50:10

Does an angel with a key come from heaven and open the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2? Why did the angel have to unlock the pit if it was not locked previously?
Who is the king of the angels in the bottomless pit found in Revelation 9:11?
Are some of the angels “bound” in some manner in Revelation 9:14?
If the beast comes up out of the pit in Revelation 11:7, where is the beast before then?

John sees “souls” at the beginning of Revelation chapter 20.
Are these the same “souls” found in Revelation 6:9-11?

Is the “first resurrection” in Revelation 20:5 the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation? (Rev. 11:11) Are there two different types of resurrections in John chapter 5?
John 5:24 (Spiritual) ? Were you dead, and now you are alive?
John 5:27-30 Christ describes the bodily resurrection and “hour” of judgment of “all” the dead.

Who is the “strong man” who is bound in Matthew 12:26-29?
How is Satan “bound” in Revelation 20:3?


How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46?
Isaiah 65:17-25? Are people really dying in verse 20? Context, Context, Context…


Was Paul expecting Christ to return "in flaming fire", taking vengeance on those who do not know God in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10? How would mortals survive this fire?

Does the fire come at the end of Revelation 20?

Did Paul expect both the living and the dead to be judged at the appearing of Christ, in 2 Timothy 4:1?

When is the judgment of the dead in Revelation 20? Is it the same judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18?

What is the restitution of all things at the return of Christ in Acts 3:20-21?

Will Christ's sacrifice at Calvary also reverse the curse, at His return?

Does death die at the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:50-55?

Why did Jesus correct the woman at the well when she said earthly Jerusalem was the place to worship? See John 4:20-24.

Why did Paul say the Jerusalem above is our “mother” in Galatians 4:24-31?

What is the inheritance of the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?

Is the third temple found in 1 Peter 2:4-10? Is this temple just as real as a temple made of earthly stones?

What was Peter expecting on the day of the Lord when He comes as a thief in 2 Peter 3:10-13?

Do we find the judgment of both the living and the dead at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, in Revelation 11:15-18? Why do most preachers ignore the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18? What does it prove about the chronology of the Book of Revelation?

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


Is there a correlation between Revelation 20 and earlier passages in the Book of Revelation?

Is Revelation chapter 20 another example of “Recapitulation”?



Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.


Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Rev_18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.


Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Judgment Before the Great White Throne.

Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


Pastor Wagner on the Premill doctrine:

.

 

[GenemZ]

Not so. Most posters will know i am talking about the great white throne. Please stop your unfair charges.

Gaslighting....

 

[Jamdoc]

No time occurs after the rapture. We are into eternity.

Where do you place the 5 months of the first woe then? Because if we are not appointed to wrath, we're not going to be experiencing that trumpet judgement, meaning Jesus comes before it, not after.
again, gross misinterpretation of what a Parousia is.
the correct interpretation is that everything, all time after Jesus appears in the clouds, IS His second coming. Eternity is His second coming.

The wrath of God lasts at least 5 months possibly longer. The second woe is "prepared for a year, a month, a day, and an hour". As to whether that's how long the judgement actually lasts is kind of nebulous as to whether it means the army spent that long preparing, or if that's how long the judgement takes, but the 5 months of the first woe.. that's really really hard for someone to interpret as not taking time when it's a specific time.
Isaiah 34:8 and Isaiah 63:1-4 gives us that it might be a year (but I'm not certain that it's exactly a year, but time)

Let's break down when the wrath of God begins.
Revelation 6:9-10
There the saints who have been martyred are asking God why He has not started His wrath. So not before then. The seals are not the wrath of God.
Revelation 14:6-13
is another view of the same events because in verse 14, Jesus in the clouds. Note that the Mark of the Beast is already present in the world at that time and the angel is preaching the gospel to the entire world, even places no missionary has ever successfully reached like North Sentinel Island. This is when the world is Judged, just before the wrath is begun.
Revelation 6:17
Hey, there it is, after the 6th seal, after mass martyrdoms, but before any trumpets have begun.
Revelation 14:19-20
Hey there it is again in another vision, after the mark of the beast and persecution, but before the bowls have begun.

Let's also break this down another way
Matthew 24:37-38
Luke 17:26-30
In both examples, Jesus shows a picture of people living normal lives just before His coming, and that when He comes, the righteous are taken AWAY from where destruction will take place, Noah on the Ark, and Lot escorted out of Sodom by Angels, and RIGHT AFTER it happens, destruction comes down.
The destruction and wrath does NOT happen before, it happens after, in both cases, and Jesus gives THAT as what we should expect.

Tell me, who's gonna be getting married and eating and drinking while the world is covered in darkness and demons are tormenting people for 5 months and making them try to commit suicide but being unable to die?
But what CAN happen is that when the antichrist is given power and authority over all kindreds, tongues and nations, that if you take the mark of the beast, and if you are not a Christian who is enduring tribulation, life will seem pretty normal, there will be eating, drinking, and marrying right up until the sun and moon darken. The crisises of the first 4 seals, will have been "solved", so life will return to normalcy, unless you reject the antichrist.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Gaslighting....

I will take your avoidance and insults as an admission that you cannot support your Premil beliefs.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Where do you place the 5 months of the first woe then? Because if we are not appointed to wrath, we're not going to be experiencing that trumpet judgement, meaning Jesus comes before it, not after.
again, gross misinterpretation of what a Parousia is.
the correct interpretation is that everything, all time after Jesus appears in the clouds, IS His second coming. Eternity is His second coming.

The wrath of God lasts at least 5 months possibly longer. The second woe is "prepared for a year, a month, a day, and an hour". As to whether that's how long the judgement actually lasts is kind of nebulous as to whether it means the army spent that long preparing, or if that's how long the judgement takes, but the 5 months of the first woe.. that's really really hard for someone to interpret as not taking time when it's a specific time.
Isaiah 34:8 and Isaiah 63:1-4 gives us that it might be a year (but I'm not certain that it's exactly a year, but time)

Let's break down when the wrath of God begins.
Revelation 6:9-10
There the saints who have been martyred are asking God why He has not started His wrath. So not before then. The seals are not the wrath of God.
Revelation 14:6-13
is another view of the same events because in verse 14, Jesus in the clouds. Note that the Mark of the Beast is already present in the world at that time and the angel is preaching the gospel to the entire world, even places no missionary has ever successfully reached like North Sentinel Island. This is when the world is Judged, just before the wrath is begun.
Revelation 6:17
Hey, there it is, after the 6th seal, after mass martyrdoms, but before any trumpets have begun.
Revelation 14:19-20
Hey there it is again in another vision, after the mark of the beast and persecution, but before the bowls have begun.

Let's also break this down another way
Matthew 24:37-38
Luke 17:26-30
In both examples, Jesus shows a picture of people living normal lives just before His coming, and that when He comes, the righteous are taken AWAY from where destruction will take place, Noah on the Ark, and Lot escorted out of Sodom by Angels, and RIGHT AFTER it happens, destruction comes down.
The destruction and wrath does NOT happen before, it happens after, in both cases, and Jesus gives THAT as what we should expect.

Tell me, who's gonna be getting married and eating and drinking while the world is covered in darkness and demons are tormenting people for 5 months and making them try to commit suicide but being unable to die?
But what CAN happen is that when the antichrist is given power and authority over all kindreds, tongues and nations, that if you take the mark of the beast, and if you are not a Christian who is enduring tribulation, life will seem pretty normal, there will be eating, drinking, and marrying right up until the sun and moon darken. The crisises of the first 4 seals, will have been "solved", so life will return to normalcy, unless you reject the antichrist.

The 3rd woe is the one and only return of Christ. It is the end. We are now into eternity.

 

[Jamdoc]

The 3rd woe is the one and only return of Christ. It is the end. We are now into eternity.

Does not line up with the days of Noah or Lot.
Who's eating and drinking and getting married with the seas and rivers turning to blood and being tormented by demon locusts and murdered by a 200 million man army?

 

[GenemZ]

Where do you place the 5 months of the first woe then?

... something tells me. If we are not careful. This thread is going to turn into five months of woe!

When someone seems inured, and its apparent that he already knows an abundance of Scripture that he freely uses to counter with? And, keep asking for chapter and verse after showing they already have extensive knowledge of God's Word? Ummmm.. not sure that we are not being set up to shadow box. Its a contradiction that they should know so much Scripture, but blanked out on what you point to. Seems like selective blindness when that happens.

We need to learn this aspect to integrate into out spiritual lives, as to not get diverted and fail to redeem the time. Especially after questions have been addressed several times in a manner that any sincere seeking believers would instantly connect with once shown. Possibly twice shown.

Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time.
After that, have nothing to do with them." Titus 3:10​

My pastor who taught us from the Greek and Hebrew texts, presented the following on Titus 3:10...

(This is the principal in dealing with people engrained in false doctrine. Give the correct doctrine to them. Give it to them a second time. If they continue to reject sound doctrine, separate yourself from their false doctrine.)

If a person is simply ignorant of Scripture and it will take time to explain? Then we are to patiently keep teaching until they can get it. But, when they sound like they have heard what you have to say it a million times and already know what you have to say? And, continue to contradict? Then they are most likely seeking how they can mess with your understanding in a desire to confound and confuse. In that case, I would then take the second half of Titus 3:10 and have peace about it.

Jesus did not debate endlessly with the religious leaders.....

Show me where I am wrong... please.

 

[Jamdoc]

... something tells me. If we are not careful. This thread is going to turn into five months of woe!

When someone seems inured, and its apparent that he already knows an abundance of Scripture that he freely uses to counter with? And, keep asking for chapter and verse after showing they already have extensive knowledge of God's Word? Ummmm.. not sure that we are not being set up to shadow box. Its a contradiction that they should know so much Scripture, but blanked out on what you point to. Seems like selective blindness when that happens.

We need to learn this aspect to integrate into out spiritual lives, as to not get diverted and fail to redeem the time. Especially after questions have been addressed several times in a manner that any sincere seeking believers would instantly connect with once shown. Possibly twice shown.

Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time.
After that, have nothing to do with them." Titus 3:10​

My pastor who taught us from the Greek and Hebrew texts, presented the following on Titus 3:10...

(This is the principal in dealing with people engrained in false doctrine. Give the correct doctrine to them. Give it to them a second time. If they continue to reject sound doctrine, separate yourself from their false doctrine.)

If a person is simply ignorant of Scripture and it will take time to explain? Then we are to patiently keep teaching until they can get it. But, when they sound like they have heard what you have to say it a million times and already know what you have to say? And, continue to contradict? Then they are most likely seeking how they can mess with your understanding in a desire to confound and confuse. In that case, I would then take the second half of Titus 3:10 and have peace about it.

Jesus did not debate endlessly with the religious leaders.....

Show me where I am wrong... please.

Rapture and Millennium positions are not the same as salvation doctrine. We can all have differing eschatology and all love Christ and all be saved. For some of us, we may have to reconsider our eschatology in mid air, for some of us, we may have to reconsider it in a jail cell.
So this isn't like arguing with the pharisees.
It's just our failings in perfect interpretation of the word of God which is difficult because of it being a translated and our knowledge is finite.
I do pray for him though, he feels compelled to challenge premillennial positions (across many threads now..) because he was disappointed in rapture dates predicted in 2000 not coming true. He changed his eschatology so that he can spiritualize all prophetic verses in a way that he could never be disappointed by an anticipated prophecy failing to happen again. I pray for him the same way I pray for many pretribulation rapture adherents who similarly find themselves disappointed when they try to set dates. Most recently the feast of trumpets this year. Eschatology should ultimately come from the word of God, and not a fear of being disappointed when something doesn't happen as anticipated.
I'm no better really, I have my own theological challenges, and I have an absolute need to reconcile scripture to scripture without considering something to be hyperbole.
None of us fully understand the word of God.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

First of all. There is to be no rapture of the Millennial saints. Theirs will be a direct transformation into eternal bodies, not a rapture. They do not die and become resurrected. They are to be given a new body that will be immortal.

Please show me where scripture talks about the transformation of the bodies of those "Millennial saints".

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Its you who need to show with Scripture that the Millennial saints will be raptured.

Are you not familiar with the amil doctrine? If you are, then you should know that we believe 1 Thess 4:13-17 and 1 Cor 15:50-54 speaks of millennial saints being "changed" and raptured and that we don't see millennial saints as being people who are saved during a future earthly millennial kingdom.

So, amils believe scripture speaks of their change or transformation but premils believe scripture does not mention it. Why would scripture not mention such a significant event? I believe that is a glaring flaw in premil doctrine.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Stop using code words if you wish to communicate. Too much time is wasted because of your laziness and presumption.

Read post #24 and then try to say again that he's lazy.

 

[Jamdoc]

Are you not familiar with the amil doctrine? If you are, then you should know that we believe 1 Thess 4:13-17 and 1 Cor 15:50-54 speaks of millennial saints being "changed" and raptured and that we don't see millennial saints as being people who are saved during a future earthly millennial kingdom.

So, amils believe scripture speaks of their change or transformation but premils believe scripture does not mention it. Why would scripture not mention such a significant event? I believe that is a glaring flaw in premil doctrine.

John 5:24-26

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

This is a resurrection of those who hear and believe on the Son, and it takes place at the rapture.
Revelation 20:4-6

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

This is not the resurrection of everyone good and evil, this is a resurrection only for those in Christ, again, taking place at the rapture. 1 Thessalonians 4 describes the resurrection taking place first. Note "the rest of the dead". There is no "rest of the dead" if everyone is resurrected at the same time.
Anyone who is not in Christ at the time of the rapture, whether they come to Him after or not, is not resurrected yet.
If they glorify God and come to Christ as the remnant in Israel do after the earthquake before the 7th trumpet, they'll have to wait until the second resurrection, but they can still be saved.

the second resurrection
John 5:28-29

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

This is a different resurrection than 5:25. This is everyone, and here is the second witness of the second resurrection, in Revelation 20

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

See how this works out. The first resurrection there is no judgement, they heard the Son, believed on Him. They are under no condemnation. There is no threat of the second death.
The second resurrection does not give that assurance, they'll be judged. Some will be in Christ, having been saved after the rapture, they go to life. Those who are not in the book of life, to damnation.

To see the first end times resurrection as having already happened and that we've already "spiritually" taken part in it, is to claim that not only those in Christ rise in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, but everyone, wicked included because it's the second resurrection that takes place at the rapture, not the first. Is that what Paul was teaching? Because I don't believe it is, not when He said the dead in Christ.

 

[GenemZ]

I will take your avoidance and insults as an admission that you cannot support your Premil beliefs.

Not so... Jesus insulted those who refused to concentrate and hear on no certain terms. Those who only wanted to hear themselves got that treatment. You have been shown enough and should not be asking for chapter and verse like you have been if you truly know the Word as you claim to. . You are wrong and should know better by now. If you were a baby Christian what you say would be understandable.

I can prove what I say. Just do not want to take hours wasted..... I have been at this too long to not know better.


If you sincerely wish to know? PM me and I will show you where you can get hours upon hours of messages on the subject from a pastor who taught from the Hebrew and Greek texts... No money will be asked for.

Other wise? You are here to become the hero of some agenda teaching your flesh has an affinity for. I would rather let you out to hang and dry. And, yes. I could go into great detail about what should not require it.

So.. I will leave you to your false teaching. And, you should do likewise for my false teaching. Because you have warned more than twice. Obey the Word. Titus I cited. Look for it if you forgot it already...

Nice Day...

 

[GenemZ]

Are you not familiar with the amil doctrine? If you are, then you should know that we believe 1 Thess 4:13-17 and 1 Cor 15:50-54 speaks of millennial saints being "changed" and raptured and that we don't see millennial saints as being people who are saved during a future earthly millennial kingdom.

Well... 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17?

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.​

There will be no "clouds to meet the Lord in" after the universe and the earth are burned up in the massive nuclear fusion. That passage can not apply to what you claim.

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 2 Pet 3:10​

Its about the end of this planet as we know it. During the Millennium the planet will have been transformed, not utterly destroyed. And, your kind keeps ignoring that there will still be births and death during that first new heavens and earth. In eternity there can be no concept of age since nothing dies ever. No need to compare any persons age to anyone else.

“Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
the one who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere child;
the one who fails to reach a hundred
will be considered accursed."​

The word "accursed" can not in our vocabulary once we are all in eternity!

That is why its a silly conclusion to think that Isaiah 60:20 speaks of the finalized eternal new heavens and earth. Words like "age" and "accursed" will not be factors to be considered as possible once we are all living in eternity! No one will age!!!!!!!!!!

You're team is dead wrong. There will be Two New heavens and new Earth. Just like our present heavens and earth replaced the prehistoric heavens and earth.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Not so... Jesus insulted those who refused to concentrate and hear on no certain terms. Those who only wanted to hear themselves got that treatment. You have been shown enough and should not be asking for chapter and verse like you have been if you truly know the Word as you claim to. . You are wrong and should know better by now. If you were a baby Christian what you say would be understandable.

I can prove what I say. Just do not want to take hours wasted..... I have been at this too long to not know better.


If you sincerely wish to know? PM me and I will show you where you can get hours upon hours of messages on the subject from a pastor who taught from the Hebrew and Greek texts... No money will be asked for.

Other wise? You are here to become the hero of some agenda teaching your flesh has an affinity for. I would rather let you out to hang and dry. And, yes. I could go into great detail about what should not require it.

So.. I will leave you to your false teaching. And, you should do likewise for my false teaching. Because you have warned more than twice. Obey the Word. Titus I cited. Look for it if you forgot it already...

Nice Day...

Come off your high horse and admit you have no answer to the Amil position. This seems to be the typical Premil response when their doctrine is exposed as extra-biblical. Basically: attack the messenger instead of the message.

Thanks for the conversation. I have no more interest in engaging with such a ruthless and unreasonable attitude.

 

[GenemZ]

Come off your high horse and admit you have no answer to the Amil position. This seems to be the typical Premil response when their doctrine is exposed as extra-biblical. Basically: attack the messenger instead of the message.

Thanks for the conversation. I have no more interest in engaging with such a ruthless and unreasonable attitude.

........ Good! It worked.