Surely Premils must invent 2 future glorifications days separated by 1000 years+?

[sovereigngrace]

Again just opinion. Can you please show who these people are in God`s word?

- who are the nations of the saved ON the earth? (Rev. 21: 24)
- who are those in the New Jerusalem? (Heb. 11: 16, & Rev. 21: 12)
- who are those on Christ`s own throne? (Rev. 3: 21)

I told you

 

[sovereigngrace]

Again just opinion. Can you please show who these people are in God`s word?

- who are the nations of the saved ON the earth? (Rev. 21: 24)
- who are those in the New Jerusalem? (Heb. 11: 16, & Rev. 21: 12)
- who are those on Christ`s own throne? (Rev. 3: 21)

It is the redeemed of all time united for all eternity. Stop trying to divide up the people of God. Your false teaching is an offense to Scripture. Your teachers have taught you wrong.

 

[sovereigngrace]

For those people without a BIble handy I will write out the scriptures so you can see for yourself who these people are.

Group 1. who are the nations of the saved ON the earth? (Rev. 21: 24)

`And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its (New Jerusalem`s) light, and the kings of the earth shall bring their glory into it.` (Rev. 21: 24)

These people are NOT in the New Jerusalem. They are not kingpriests, (as the Body of Christ is)


Group 2. who are those in the New Jerusalem? (Heb. 11: 16, & Rev. 21: 12)

``But now they (Old testament saints) desire a better, that is a heavenly country. Therefore God is nt ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.` (Heb. 11: 16)

`and the names written on them, (walls & gates) which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel.` (Rev. 21: 12)

There we see that the Old testament saints inherit the city, those from the twelve tribes of Israel. No mention of the Body of Christ.


Group 3. who are those on Christ`s own throne? (Rev. 3: 21)

`To Him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

And that throne, the seat of Christ`s power and authority (which goes out to every realm) is in the third heaven, the highest, over all. The apostle Paul said for us, like himself to -

`press toward the goal for the prize of the upward, (on top) call in Christ Jesus.` (Phil. 3: 14)

No other group has been promised to be like Christ and to have the inheritance of ruling with Christ on His own throne in the highest. Paul also warned for us to `hold fast to the head.` (Col. 2: 19)

There is a big deception at the moment saying that the Body of Christ` inheritance is ON the earth. And that everyone else will be with us. That is NOT what God`s word says.

We the Body of Christ are being made like Christ and have a wonderful inheritance in the highest with the Lord. Do not let anyone ROB you of that inheritance.

I see you are selective in your quote of Revelation 21. You purge any reference to the NT Church in order to sustain your teaching.

12And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14¶And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

This symbolism reinforces the unity between the OT believers and the NT saints. The 12 tribes and 12 apostles represent the uniting of both peoples.

Hebrews 12 confirms:

22¶But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Hebrews 12 confirms that the heavenly city relates to the NT Church as well as the OT saints.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The Bible never says the `Bride of Christ.`

So where is the Church mentioned in the New Jerusalem?

The church is the New Jerusalem. The church is symbolically depicted in Rev 21 as the new Jerusalem which John said is "the bride, the wife of the Lamb" (Rev 21:9-10).

Revelation 19:6 Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting: “Hallelujah! For our Lord God Almighty reigns. 7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready. 8 Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.” (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.)

What is your understanding of the above passage? Who is the bride of the Lamb there and why should we think it's any different than the bride of the Lamb here:

Revelation 21
1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

Your hyper-literalism makes you say "The Bible never says "The Bride of Christ". You're right. It never says those exact words. Which does not mean the concept of Christ having a bride is not taught. It does talk about the bride of the Lamb in Rev 19:7, Rev 21:2 and Rev 21:9-10. We know the Lamb is Christ. So, calling it the bride of Christ is perfectly acceptable.

Look at Rev 21:9-10 in particular. First the angel says he was going to show John "the bride, the wife of the Lamb" and then he proceeded to show him the holy city, new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God. That means the new Jerusalem is a figurative term for the bride of the Lamb, which consists of the body of Christ, the church. Who else would be spiritually married to Christ except the church?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

There is a big deception at the moment saying that the Body of Christ` inheritance is ON the earth. And that everyone else will be with us. That is NOT what God`s word says.

How do you interpret this verse:

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

 

[Timtofly]

You said Satan never had any power to begin with and then I showed you a passage that 100% says otherwise. Can you acknowledge that you were wrong in saying that Satan never had any power to begin with? To suggest otherwise would imply that you think Christ did not break Satan's power by way of His death as Hebrews 2:14-15 indicates.

How much power does death have over people?

 

[Marilyn C]

I told you

You didn`t relate to those scriptures, just your opinion.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Yes they were only enabled to survive through God`s provision. However they were NOT able to be made like Christ for as I said Christ`s Holy Spirit bringing His divine nature only occurred AFTER Christ ascended.

They will be made like Christ with us (NT saints) when He comes.

After commending the faith of many OT saints like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph and Moses in Hebrews 11, the author (probably Paul) said this about them:

Hebrews 11:39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Only together with us (NT saints) will they (OT saints) be made perfect. That contradicts your doctrine. OT saints are included in what Paul said here:

1 Cor 15:50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory".

This is what being made perfect is referring to - being changed to have immortal bodies. Hebrews 11:39-40 makes it clear that we will not be made perfect without them. All of God's people from all time will be together as one! Don't divide what God puts together as one.

 

[Marilyn C]

It is the redeemed of all time united for all eternity. Stop trying to divide up the people of God. Your false teaching is an offense to Scripture. Your teachers have taught you wrong.

You haven`t proved your view yet. I am bringing up your errors and you just hide behind `your false teaching, etc.` You need to relate to the scriptures that I post and use scripture to prove your point.

I ask you about the scripture that says there are `nations of the saved on the earth. (Rev. 21: 12) and you say it is us, then I ask you about the NJ and you say it is us. Well which is it, on the earth or in the NJ? You can`t have it both ways.

And BTW the `nations of the saved` are just that NATIONS, ethnic groups. And we both know that the Body of Christ is NOT that, `neither Jew nor Greek etc.`

 

[Marilyn C]

The church is the New Jerusalem. The church is symbolically depicted in Rev 21 as the new Jerusalem which John said is "the bride, the wife of the Lamb" (Rev 21:9-10).

Revelation 19:6 Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting: “Hallelujah! For our Lord God Almighty reigns. 7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready. 8 Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.” (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.)

What is your understanding of the above passage? Who is the bride of the Lamb there and why should we think it's any different than the bride of the Lamb here:

Revelation 21
1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

Your hyper-literalism makes you say "The Bible never says "The Bride of Christ". You're right. It never says those exact words. Which does not mean the concept of Christ having a bride is not taught. It does talk about the bride of the Lamb in Rev 19:7, Rev 21:2 and Rev 21:9-10. We know the Lamb is Christ. So, calling it the bride of Christ is perfectly acceptable.

Look at Rev 21:9-10 in particular. First the angel says he was going to show John "the bride, the wife of the Lamb" and then he proceeded to show him the holy city, new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God. That means the new Jerusalem is a figurative term for the bride of the Lamb, which consists of the body of Christ, the church. Who else would be spiritually married to Christ except the church?

The title `Lamb,` is only used in relationship to Israel and their sacrifices. Jesus is only spoken about `as a lamb,` when relating to the Body of Christ. Big difference there.

Now the `wedding` in Rev. 19: 7 is on earth as the Lord Himself revealed in Matt. 22: 11. There we see a man come into the wedding feast without a wedding garment. That could not happen in heaven for no one gets into heaven without `a garment` of Christ`s righteousness.

Now you think you are the bride and marrying Christ. Are you telling me that the Lord is going to marry millions of men and women? I don`t need to tell you what that means, men.....women.....

Also remember that the Lord Himself said that there is no marrying in heaven for they are like the angels in that they do not marry. (Matt. 22: 30)

 

[Marilyn C]

How do you interpret this verse:

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

Context, who is speaking to whom. The Lord is speaking to His disciples, (which were many) of Israel. The Lord was speaking about the character of those (in Israel) who would inherit the rulership on earth.

 

[Marilyn C]

They will be made like Christ with us (NT saints) when He comes.

After commending the faith of many OT saints like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph and Moses in Hebrews 11, the author (probably Paul) said this about them:

Hebrews 11:39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Only together with us (NT saints) will they (OT saints) be made perfect. That contradicts your doctrine. OT saints are included in what Paul said here:

1 Cor 15:50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory".

This is what being made perfect is referring to - being changed to have immortal bodies. Hebrews 11:39-40 makes it clear that we will not be made perfect without them. All of God's people from all time will be together as one! Don't divide what God will put together as one.

You missed these words, `SOMETHING BETTER for us.` (Heb.11: 39)

When the Body of Christ is in its eternal setting in the highest, then when the NHNE comes, then the OT saints will come down in the New Jerusalem to the Universal realm and rule there.

 

[Marilyn C]

I see you are selective in your quote of Revelation 21. You purge any reference to the NT Church in order to sustain your teaching.

12And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14¶And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

This symbolism reinforces the unity between the OT believers and the NT saints. The 12 tribes and 12 apostles represent the uniting of both peoples.

Hebrews 12 confirms:

22¶But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Hebrews 12 confirms that the heavenly city relates to the NT Church as well as the OT saints.

The Lord tells us that the 12 disciples will be rulers over the 12 tribes of Israel. (Matt. 19: 28) No Body of Christ there. The 12 disciples/apostles of the Lamb are NOT in the Body of Christ. Remember Peter tried to get the new believers to act like the Jews. he did not even wasn't to go to the Gentiles until the Holy Spirit persuaded him. They have a different calling.

As to coming to mount Zion, that is speaking of the Body of Christ, for that is His rulership Mount. The other part of Jerusalem, the city part will come down from God out of heaven and that is the inheritance of the OT saints.

Note Jerusalem has - 1) Mount Zion, 2) the city. Two parts, Mount Zion for Christ seat of power and authority, (Ps. 2: 6). God the Father has set His Son on Mount Zion. And then there is the city part of Jerusalem which is for the OT saints, as that is what was promised to them.

 

[sovereigngrace]

You haven`t proved your view yet. I am bringing up your errors and you just hide behind `your false teaching, etc.` You need to relate to the scriptures that I post and use scripture to prove your point.

I ask you about the scripture that says there are `nations of the saved on the earth. (Rev. 21: 12) and you say it is us, then I ask you about the NJ and you say it is us. Well which is it, on the earth or in the NJ? You can`t have it both ways.

And BTW the `nations of the saved` are just that NATIONS, ethnic groups. And we both know that the Body of Christ is NOT that, `neither Jew nor Greek etc.`

The nations speak about all the elect from the beginning. You have no rebuttal to that with your Apartheid Theology. Amillennialism sees a unified people of God. They have been joined together through the blood of Jesus. The wall of separation has gone forever. If you had your way it would be rebuilt. So sad!

 

[sovereigngrace]

The title `Lamb,` is only used in relationship to Israel and their sacrifices. Jesus is only spoken about `as a lamb,` when relating to the Body of Christ. Big difference there.

Now the `wedding` in Rev. 19: 7 is on earth as the Lord Himself revealed in Matt. 22: 11. There we see a man come into the wedding feast without a wedding garment. That could not happen in heaven for no one gets into heaven without `a garment` of Christ`s righteousness.

Now you think you are the bride and marrying Christ. Are you telling me that the Lord is going to marry millions of men and women? I don`t need to tell you what that means, men.....women.....

Also remember that the Lord Himself said that there is no marrying in heaven for they are like the angels in that they do not marry. (Matt. 22: 30)

You may not accept Christ as your Lamb. But Christ is the Lamb of God for the redeemed - OT and NT.

For you to mock the marriage of Christ to His bride (the Church) is grievous, disturbing and anti-biblical. You do not see the spiritual import. How sad!!!

 

[sovereigngrace]

You missed these words, `SOMETHING BETTER for us.` (Heb.11: 39)

When the Body of Christ is in its eternal setting in the highest, then when the NHNE comes, then the OT saints will come down in the New Jerusalem to the Universal realm and rule there.

All Bible-believing Christians should reject your man-made spiritual and eternal apartheid.

 

[sovereigngrace]

You haven`t proved your view yet. I am bringing up your errors and you just hide behind `your false teaching, etc.` You need to relate to the scriptures that I post and use scripture to prove your point.

I ask you about the scripture that says there are `nations of the saved on the earth. (Rev. 21: 12) and you say it is us, then I ask you about the NJ and you say it is us. Well which is it, on the earth or in the NJ? You can`t have it both ways.

And BTW the `nations of the saved` are just that NATIONS, ethnic groups. And we both know that the Body of Christ is NOT that, `neither Jew nor Greek etc.`

The New Testament makes clear; there is only one elect people. There is only one good olive tree, not two; one body, not two; one bride, not two; one spiritual temple, not two; one people of God, not two; one household of faith, not two; one fold, not two; one man, not “twain,” and one elect of God throughout time. Here is proof we are true spiritual Israel:

Ephesians 2:11-19

Ephesians 2:11-19 declares, “Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth [Gr. politeia or citizenship] of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby … Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens [Gr. sumpolites] with the saints, and of the household of God.”

This Epistle reveals how there has been a major alteration wrought in their spiritual standing of these Gentiles in the New Testament age through Jesus Christ. What is more we see a complete redefining of terms and appellations. This passage shows how Gentiles have gone from being naturally considered “Gentiles” to being spiritually of “Israel.”

The word rendered “commonwealth” in the King James Version here is the Greek word politeia (Strong’s 4174) which means citizenship or community. This passage illustrates how Gentile Christians in this New Testament era have graciously entered into “the citizenship of Israel” through the work of Christ.

According to Liddell and Scott's Greek-English Lexicon a meaning of politeia is "the conditions and rights of the citizen, or citizenship.”

This passage speaks of God bringing natural Israelis together with natural Gentiles into the exact same standing and privileges. In fact, in this new covenant age they are classed as “one body” and “one new man.” How can this be? What are the grounds for this union? Is it speaking of a natural or spiritual reality? There can be no doubt by the clarity and straightforwardness of this narrative that Jews and Gentiles are joined together in this passage on the sole grounds of “the blood of Christ.” This is the only means of cleansing and freedom God knows or accepts.

They have been transformed from “being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision” (2:11) to “now in Christ Jesus” (2:13) being of “the citizenship of Israel.” This is indeed a remarkable change. The clear intimation here is that the naturally Gentile believers of Ephesus through salvation are no longer considered Gentiles. This would fit in with Paul’s teaching in Romans 2:26, 28-29 and Romans 9:30-33.

A Gentile is said in this text to be made a true Israelite. They are said to be “fellowcitizens” – a citizen of believing Israel. Obviously believing Gentiles do not become natural citizens of Israel, so this must mean spiritual citizens of Israel.

The word “fellowcitizens” (sumpolites) actually involves the joining of two Greek words sun denoting union and togetherness and polites meaning citizen. The joint word here is used to describe the unitary nature of the people of God of all time. It is thus correctly interpreted “fellowcitizens” in the King James Version confirming how the New Testament Gentile have been brought into “the citizenship of Israel” with the saints of the Old economy.

Romans 11:11-24

Paul gives us some interesting thoughts in Romans 11. In Romans 11:11-15 he teaches: “I say then, Have they (natural Israel) stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?”

The apostle continues in Romans 11:17-24: “And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them, partakest of the root and fatness [or oiliness] of the olive tree. Boast not against the branches (Israel). But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root [Jesus], but the root [Jesus] thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches [Israel] were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?”

Paul uses the image of “the olive tree” in Romans 11 to show that Gentiles have become part of true Israel. His olive tree analogy is deliberate. He takes this imagery from the prophets who likened Israel to an olive tree in Isaiah 5:7, Hosea 9:10 and 14:6-7.

No one could surely dispute we are looking at an Israeli tree here. Paul carefully describes the Jews who have been cut off as “natural branches” and being of “their own olive tree.” This shows us that this is an Israeli tree that held Israeli citizens. If the “natural branches” represent natural Israelis, and faith in Christ is the criterion for partaking in “the olive tree,” we can only be looking at the faithful genetic seed of Abraham who embraced Christ. This is the elect remnant of Israel. It was this holy remnant that remained attached to the Israeli olive tree that the Gentiles who believed now join in this new covenant era. This fulfils various Old Testament predictions that through Abraham’s seed all the families of the earth would be blessed (Genesis 12:1-3, 17:3-8, 17:15-16, 18:18 and 22:16-18).

Dispensationalist John McArthur even acknowledges: “And so the new life which enables us Gentiles to produce fruit unto God is the covenant stock of Israel that we’ve been grafted into” (Is God finished with Israel? Part 2).

This olive tree, which currently consists of both believing Jews and Gentiles, is therefore the continuation of spiritual Israel, only operating now under the broader new covenant arrangement. Consequently, it contains the full number of new covenant believers regardless of race or natural DNA. This metaphor describes the incorporation of Gentile believers into a decidedly Hebraic tree. But this is no natural tree. We are clearly looking here at a spiritual tree, because partaking in its blessing and sustenance comes through the exercise of “faith.” After all, if it were simply natural there would be absolutely no reason to cut out natural Israelites simply on the grounds of their race. The reason for Christ-rejecting Israel’s banishment from the tree’s blessings was “unbelief.” The reason for Gentile acceptance was because “they” stood “by faith.”

If God had two distinct chosen peoples, then He would not have integrated the believing Gentiles into a believing Jewish tree. The phrase “wert graffed in” is taken from the lone Greek word egkentrizo meaning ‘to ingraft’. It comes up 6 times in the New Testament – all between Romans 11:17-24.

Galatians 6:15-16

Galatians 6:15-16 further reinforces the idea that we are spiritual Israel today, asserting: “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.”

Q. 1 Who is Paul specifically speaking to?
Q. 2 What is he speaking of in this text?
Q. 3 Who is he speaking about?

A. 1 He is primarily speaking to Gentile believers in Galatia, although there would doubtless have been Jewish converts among that assembly of believers.
A. 2 The whole focus of this passage is the subject of circumcision, and how it has no bearing upon the issue of salvation.
A. 3. All those who are born again.

Whilst this epistle was inspired of the Holy Spirit for the edification and instruction of the Church of Jesus Christ generally, it was initially and principally written to the Galatian Gentile believers. The verses that actually precede Paul’s instruction on “the Israel of God” makes it clear that his counsel was primarily directed to those Galatian saints who were experiencing hostility from certain Jews for not being physically circumcised. Paul in turn was specifically addressing the issue of circumcision, warning the Galatian Gentile believers against the dangerous crusade of these misguided Judadizers who were attempting to put them under bondage by compelling them to be circumcised.

Paul says of such, in his introductory comments in Galatians 6:12-13, “As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh (speaking of the Jews), they constrain you (Galatian Gentile believers) to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. For neither they themselves who are circumcised (namely the Jews) keep the law; but desire to have you (Gentiles) circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.”

Paul is constantly telling us in his writings in lucid terms that there is no ‘them and us’ within the body of Christ. He emphasizes how one’s Jewishness or Gentileness means absolutely nothing today “in Christ Jesus.” He actually rebukes those that try to establish distinct groupings within the body of Christ (namely Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians). Paul repeatedly instructs the New Testament believer that there should be no racial, cultural or economic division within the body. 1 Corinthians 12:25 says: “That there should be no schism in the body.”

Paul explains in verse 15 that one’s natural Jewish ancestry or physical appearance has absolutely nothing to do with one’s standing before God, rather it is one’s spiritual birthright only.

Moreover, the Greek word used in this passage for “rule” is the word kanoni, which means a rule or canon, i.e. a standard of faith and practice; by implication, a boundary, i.e. a sphere of activity. There is hence an important proviso cited here for one being of the spiritual “Israel of God,” and therefore enjoying the “peace” and “mercy” of the Lord; that is: irrespective of colour, creed, gender, birth-date (pre or post Calvary) or status that one is born again of the Spirit.

There is not one canon of faith for Jewish Christians and another canon of faith for Gentile Christians. Collectively they come under Paul’s definition of the “many” (Galatians 6:16). All are now one in Christ. All are governed by the same heavenly rules. This is the whole force of Paul’s teaching here and repeatedly throughout the New Testament. That is why he preferences the debated expression with the clear words: “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.”

 

[sovereigngrace]

The church is the New Jerusalem. The church is symbolically depicted in Rev 21 as the new Jerusalem which John said is "the bride, the wife of the Lamb" (Rev 21:9-10).

Revelation 19:6 Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting: “Hallelujah! For our Lord God Almighty reigns. 7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready. 8 Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.” (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.)

What is your understanding of the above passage? Who is the bride of the Lamb there and why should we think it's any different than the bride of the Lamb here:

Revelation 21
1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

Your hyper-literalism makes you say "The Bible never says "The Bride of Christ". You're right. It never says those exact words. Which does not mean the concept of Christ having a bride is not taught. It does talk about the bride of the Lamb in Rev 19:7, Rev 21:2 and Rev 21:9-10. We know the Lamb is Christ. So, calling it the bride of Christ is perfectly acceptable.

Look at Rev 21:9-10 in particular. First the angel says he was going to show John "the bride, the wife of the Lamb" and then he proceeded to show him the holy city, new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God. That means the new Jerusalem is a figurative term for the bride of the Lamb, which consists of the body of Christ, the church. Who else would be spiritually married to Christ except the church?

Well put. This is damning for Dispensationalism teaching.

 

[sovereigngrace]

The title `Lamb,` is only used in relationship to Israel and their sacrifices. Jesus is only spoken about `as a lamb,` when relating to the Body of Christ. Big difference there.

Now the `wedding` in Rev. 19: 7 is on earth as the Lord Himself revealed in Matt. 22: 11. There we see a man come into the wedding feast without a wedding garment. That could not happen in heaven for no one gets into heaven without `a garment` of Christ`s righteousness.

Now you think you are the bride and marrying Christ. Are you telling me that the Lord is going to marry millions of men and women? I don`t need to tell you what that means, men.....women.....

Also remember that the Lord Himself said that there is no marrying in heaven for they are like the angels in that they do not marry. (Matt. 22: 30)

When is the marriage?

Jesus said in Matthew 25:1-13: “Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready [hetoimos] went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.”

This parable speaks of Christ’s Coming and shows that He is Coming for those that are ready. The 5 virgins in this earthly story are a spiritual picture of the bride of Christ. The parable of the virgins supports the idea of a climactic Coming of Christ. Men are either caught up or caught on. Being ready means rescue, being locked outside means destruction. Interpreting Scripture with Scripture would assist you here. As in Noah’s day, “the door was shut” – the day of opportunity was final closed – and those left outside were totally destroyed.

The solemn side of this parable is the awful plight of the five foolish virgins who had no oil in their lamps. Like the wicked that were left in Noah’s day, the religious will cry when it is too late: “Lord, Lord, open to us.” The only problem is it is too late. The solemn cry will come from the Master, “Verily I say unto you, I know you not” (vv 11-12). This is exactly what Jesus says to the wicked at the final judgment. He isn't saying: ‘welcome to a 7 year tribulation period’ or ‘welcome to the Premil millennium for another chance’. Sadly, they are damned and doomed for all eternity.

Where in Revelation do we find the bride of Christ?

Undoubtedly the Church is Christ’s bride, but in Pretrib thinking the Church has already be removed before the tribulation. Pretrib theology has Christ having 2 brides, something that is absurd, unknown to Scripture, and extra-biblical.

In the 6th of 7 recaps in Revelation, Revelation 19:7-9 tells us, “Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready (hetoimazo Strong’s 2090). And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.”

This is the wedding! The marriage of the Lamb and the marriage supper occurs at Revelation 19 (the end of the Pretrib tribulation, not the beginning as they intimate). This is when this union is consummated. The perfected Church (or bride) is joined to her bridegroom (Christ) forever in glorification.

In the 7th of 7 recaps in Revelation, Revelation 20:11-15 – 21:1-5 confirms, speaking about the second coming and the connected ushering of the new heaven and new earth: “And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away (or departed); and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, [hetoimazo] as a bride adorned for her husband And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away (or departed). And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”

The new heavens and new earth come with the appearing of Christ.

Revelation 21:9-10 confirms: “Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God.”

Not only is it clear that “the marriage of the Lamb” to “his wife” is referring to the final consummation of the relationship between Christ and His bride – the Church – at the second coming. But we see the status of the wife; “And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.” The wife is the body of believers down through the years, which have placed their eternity on the blood of Christ, whether in the old or the new economy.

The wedding therefore is the consummating of the union between bridegroom and the bride or the catching away of the saints.

 

[Marilyn C]

All Bible-believing Christians should reject your man-made spiritual and eternal apartheid.

Again just an unsubstantiated opinion.