Suicide is a sin that cannot be forgiven?

[Bible Highlighter]

But telling grieving parents their child is in hell because they could not take the stress that led them to take their own life, is only cruel speculation on your part. Just as Job's friends misjudged him.

No it is not cruel speculation. The Bible clearly says that no murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15). If they repented shortly before they died, I would say that they might be saved then. But most do not get that chance.

 

[Kenny'sID]

The following is what seems to me a good conclusion on exactly what the bible means by "kill" in the commandment. If you aren't past the fact that's what "kill" means in the commandment, I'd suggest you study up on it. But assuming you are past that, the definition here may help, and not only does it look right to me, but it pretty well follows mans laws on the subject, the laws God has a hand on. and as mans laws go, and should go, if there is ever any question about anything to do with the law, a trial will be implemented to find out what is fair, and although I doubt there will be actually trials in the afterlife, I think we can rest assured the supreme judge there who sees all, will be more able to judge fairly than any trial we could have here in this life.

If you'll look closely at the definition, one might see several reasons to believe suicide as forgivable, or maybe never even a sin to begin with...I know that sounds outrageous to some, but open your minds and look closely, as there is a whole lot more to it than a close minded "Though shalt not kill, so all suicidees go to hell".

I should make it clear, I do not believe as the OP does, in that all our sins are forgiven past present and future, as that would leave things open to "Get saved, do as we like, then go to heaven" a theology I am very much against. However, the reasons I see in the definition, have nothing to do with that, but only with the definition of actual murder. I'll bold a few of what I think are good points

KJV Dictionary Definition: murder
murder
MUR'DER, n. L. mors.

1. The act of unlawfully killing a human being with premeditated malice, by a person of sound mind. To constitute murder in law, the person killing another must be of sound mind or in possession of his reason, and the act must be done with malice prepense, aforethought or premeditated; but malice may be implied, as well as express.

2. An outcry, when life is in danger.

MUR'DER, v.t.

1. To kill a human being with premeditated malice. See the Noun.

2. To destroy; to put an end to.

Canst thou murder thy breath in middle of a word?

murdered
MUR'DERED, pp. Slain with malice prepense.

murderer
MUR'DERER, n. A person who in possession of his reason, unlawfully kills a human being with premeditated malice.

1. A small piece of ordnance.

murdering
MUR'DERING, ppr. Killing a human being with malice premeditated.

murderous
MUR'DEROUS, a. Guilty of murder; as the murderous king.

1. Consisting in murder; done with murder; bloody; cruel; as murderous rapine.

2. Bloody; sanguinary; committing murder; as murderous tyranny.

3. Premeditating murder; as murderous intent or design.

murderously
MUR'DEROUSLY, adv. In a murderous or cruel manner.

 

[Dave L]

No it is not cruel speculation. The Bible clearly says that no murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15). If they repented shortly before they died, I would say that they might be saved then. But most do not get that chance.

But you do not know who repented in the throes of death and who did not.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I believe god judges fairly. If a mentally ill person takes their own life then i strongly believe god will judge them with compassion, just like i believe a baby who dies is held blameless and goes to heaven.

The church is bugger all help with mental illness. Not surprising since a lot think mentally ill people are possessed by demons. Come across that medievil nonsense myself.

A baby is blameless if it dies because they do not know about right or wrong yet. This is not the case with a person who was once healthy in mind at one time and then later became mentally ill. While they were healthy in mind, they had a chance to repent and do the right thing with God. If a person struggles with mild depression that is not unescapable and they can make good and right choices, then they are not without excuse before God in taking their own life. Either way, suicide is an unforgivable sin. We need a verse that says that a person who is mentally ill is without guilt or sin before God. Now, if a person is mentally handicapped since birth to not fully be aware of right from wrong, then that is different.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But you do not know who repented in the throes of death and who did not.

Of course I am not going to say a person is unsaved specifically if I was not there. I am speaking in general terms. If a person does not repent before they commit suicide, they are not saved.

 

[steve78]

The unfortunate thing about suicide is that the secular world today is attempting to the soften seriousness of it and for what it is ... the non-God pleasing action on the part of the person doing it.

No its more of a case that the church fails to understand about mental illness.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The following is what seems to me a good conclusion on exactly w3hat the bible means by "kill" in the commandment. If you aren't past the fact that's what "kill" means in the commandment, I'd snuggest you study up on it. But assuming you are, the definition here may help, and not only does it look right to me, but it pretty well follows mans laws on the subject, the laws God has a hand on.

If you'll look closely at the definition, one might see several reason to believe suicide not unforgivable. I should make it clear, I do not believe as the OP does, in that all our sins are forgiven past present and future, as that would leave things open to "Get saved, do as we like, then go to heaven" a theology I am very much against. However, the reasons I see in the definition, have nothing to do with that, but only with the definition of actual murder. I'll bold a few of what I think are good points

KJV Dictionary Definition: murder
murder
MUR'DER, n. L. mors.

1. The act of unlawfully killing a human being with premeditated malice, by a person of sound mind. To constitute murder in law, the person killing another must be of sound mind or in possession of his reason, and the act must be done with malice prepense, aforethought or premeditated; but malice may be implied, as well as express.

2. An outcry, when life is in danger.

MUR'DER, v.t.

1. To kill a human being with premeditated malice. See the Noun.

2. To destroy; to put an end to.

Canst thou murder thy breath in middle of a word?

murdered
MUR'DERED, pp. Slain with malice prepense.

murderer
MUR'DERER, n. A person who in possession of his reason, unlawfully kills a human being with premeditated malice.

1. A small piece of ordnance.

murdering
MUR'DERING, ppr. Killing a human being with malice premeditated.

murderous
MUR'DEROUS, a. Guilty of murder; as the murderous king.

1. Consisting in murder; done with murder; bloody; cruel; as murderous rapine.

2. Bloody; sanguinary; committing murder; as murderous tyranny.

3. Premeditating murder; as murderous intent or design.

murderously
MUR'DEROUSLY, adv. In a murderous or cruel manner.

Show me in the Bible where the taking of life is okay because it was done out of sorrow. The Bible says no murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15). I am sorry, but I am not going to sugar coat the truth here, even it may be painful for some parents to hear that. On judgment day, that is not going to matter. God is not going to play favorites. Grievous sin will cause a separation between God and man.

 

[Dave L]

Of course I am not going to say a person is unsaved specifically if I was not there. I am speaking in general terms. If a person does not repent before they commit suicide, they are not saved.

So you cannot tell a grieving parent their child who folded up under stress and depression and took their own life is in hell, to top off their grieving, making them suicidal too?

 

[twin.spin]

A baby is blameless if it dies because they do not know about right or wrong yet..

Irrelevant reasoning since God's Word says otherwise:

Romans 3:23
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"

Ecclesiastes 7:20
"Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous, no one who does what is right and never sins."

Psalm 53: 2-3
"God looks down from heaven on all mankind
to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God.
Everyone has turned away, all have become corrupt;
there is no one who does good, not even one."

Romans 3:19
"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law,
so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God."

 

[Strong in Him]

Sorry brother in all due respect there is no scripture to support anything that you have posted above to say that suicide is not sin and can be forgiven. It is simply not biblical.

But there are plenty of verses which speak about a God of compassion.

Exodus 34:6 says that God proclaimed his name to Moses - the compassionate and gracious God.
Psalms 103:8 says that God is compassionate and gracious.
Psalms 116:5 says that our God is full of compassion.
Psalms 145:9 says that the Lord has compassion on all he has made.
Isaiah 49:13 says that the Lord has compassion on his afflicted ones.
Lamentations 3:22 says that God's compassion never fails.

and so on.

Isaiah 42:3 and Matthew 12:20 say that God will not break a bruised reed nor snuff out a smouldering wick.
Isaiah 61:1 says that God sent his servant to bind up the broken hearted.
1 Corinthians 13:4-7 says that love is kind ...... always protects, always hopes.
1 John 4:8 says that God IS love.

As Scripture reveals God's character to be one of kindness, compassion, tenderness, love - as well as grace and mercy - can we really say that if a person who is very depressed or mentally ill takes their own life, while they are in this state and their minds not well, or clear; God will then say "too bad, hell for you; you could not repent."?

I don't believe so.
Not meaning disrespect, but please don't look so hard at the individual words/passages of Scripture that you miss the big picture and what Scripture reveals about God. In other words, if there is not a verse to back up a teaching or advise on a moral dilemma, this does not mean that it is wrong and that God would be against it.

Who should we believe, your words or God's Word?

I believe what God's word says about the character of God - he has revealed his character to us through his word, and ultimately through Jesus. Because of what I know about the character of God, I cannot accept that he would deal harshly with people who take their on lives due to illness, accident, or who enduring the hell of alcoholism and/or abuse and can see no way out.
Such people may not even believe in God, judging that he has abandoned them and done nothing to help.

What I can't work out is why anyone would think suicide is not a sin and would be forgiven when the bible says it is sin that cannot be forgiven.

But it doesn't say that suicide is a sin, or address the question of mental illness.
And it does say plenty about God who is love and full of compassion.

Again, Jesus said that the only unpardonable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. He doesn't mention suicide at all.

And are you saying that if a Christian who knows God falls ill, or into despair, and ends their life - maybe not even meaning to - that God will say, "never mind your faith, love and everything that has gone before; that one sin can't be forgiven, so it won't be, so you're going to spend eternity in hell"?
There is no Scripture to support that. Jesus said that nothing can snatch us from our Father's hands, and Paul says that NOTHING can separate us from Gd's love.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Irrelevant reasoning since God's Word says otherwise:

Romans 3:23
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"

Ecclesiastes 7:20
"Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous, no one who does what is right and never sins."

Psalm 53: 2-3
"God looks down from heaven on all mankind
to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God.
Everyone has turned away, all have become corrupt;
there is no one who does good, not even one."

Romans 3:19
"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law,
so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God."

So you believe babies that die are unsaved?
I believe they are saved by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Show me in the Bible where the taking of life is okay because it was done out of sorrow.

Does it say it is not OK? I think you missed most of my points in the definition, but it's clear you didn't want to see them, so that would make sense.

I am sorry, but I am not going to sugar coat the truth here, even it may be painful for some parents to hear that.

Don't worry, I don't think you are sugar coating the "truth" at all because saying suicide automatically means hell, is not the truth, not IMO.

Tell me, why is killing ones self a sin to begin with? Did you not see in the definition how it may not even be considered murder? And I ask you that, assuming you can get over the "that's what I've always believed, so that's what's true" mode for a moment and think about what is actually going on, but if you cannot do that, we'll get nowhere.

 

[carp614]

This is such a difficult topic. It is an emotionally charged topic that arouses not just fear, sadness, and doubt but also frustration and righteous indignation.

I am greatly blessed by all of the views that have been expressed on this topic. I feel challenged to think through this more carefully by what I have seen here. May God bless everyone who has brought something to the table herein.

Sadly, I am not prepared to bring a thorough eschatological argument to this discussion. but I do have a thought that follows for me from a piece of scripture we all know well as Christians.
John 3:16-17 (NIV) Underlines are mine
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

The question this passage brought me to is this: Is it wise to put limits on Christ's atoning sacrifice? Is it wise for us to believe that Christ's death on the Cross only covers us in some situations and not in others?

In my own journey this is what happened: I was involved in something that I believed put me beyond redemption. In that state of mind, suffering greatly from deep depression, it was only a matter of choosing which manner of death I would endure; quick and painless or slow and painful. I chose slow and painful because I believed that was what I deserved. But that gave God time to help me understand that nothing I could do would make Him stop pursuing me. No sin was beyond Christ's atoning sacrifice. If I had not come to this conclusion, I would not be here today.

No one has to believe me. I do not wish to win this debate. I only hope that what I've said is helpful in some way. God Bless all of you.

 

[Archer_on_Fire]

Did I say possession no I said demons are attacking her thoughts which causes depression so people go into a downward spiral . I follow the teachings of Jesus Christ who has told us " To be wise as the serpent " so you have to know there are serpents the cause of all the worlds problems people not following the teachings of Jesus Christ following their man made doctrines instead . "Get thee behind me , Satan " thou art an offense unto me for thou savourest not the things of God , but those that be of men "

Depression is often the result of an imbalance of brain chemicals. Not demons.

 

[Archer_on_Fire]

Think. Why would you want to play games with your soul? I would rather be more cautious with my soul so as not to end of being destroyed in the Lake of Fire or in being cast into outer darkness. Both those options do not sound appealing to me. Sin always results in death unless a person repents. People need to wake up and smell the "Sermon on the Mount." Jesus said if you look at a woman in lust your whole body can be cast into hell fire (See Matthew 5:28-30). Jesus said if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven (See Matthew 6:15). Jesus said if you say, "You fool" mindlessly in hate towards a brother, you are in danger of hell fire (See Matthew 5:22). This does not sound like future sins are forgiven a person. Jesus is talking to believers here because it would do no good to tell unbelievers about their sins unless they first repent and accept Jesus Christ.

Have you ever been severely clinically depressed? The only thing people in that state think of is getting the pain to stop.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Does it say it is not OK? I think you missed most of my points in the definition, but it's clear you didn't want to see them, so that would make sense.



Don't worry, I don't think you are sugar coating the "truth" at all because saying suicide automatically means hell, is not the truth, not IMO.

Tell me, why is killing ones self a sin to begin with? Did you not see in the definition how it may not even be considered murder? And I ask you that, assuming you can get over the "that's what I've always believed, so that's what's true" mode for a moment and think about what is actually going on, but if you cannot do that, we'll get nowhere.

Intentionally killing yourself has always been termed self-murder, the word "suicide" only became fashionable since the 18th. century.

The phrase self-murder is a long-established term for suicide: You will find it listed, with that sole meaning, in all good English dictionaries. Even the current American Webster's dictionary defines it unequivocally;

self-murder: Another term for suicide.

It is as valid an expression as; self-condemned, self-centred, self-deluded, and its antonym; self-defence.

You will find self-murder, meaning suicide, used in classic novels written by; Charles Dickens, Henry Fielding, and numerous other authors.

Source:
https://www.born-again-christian.info/answers/why-suicide-is-self-murder.htm

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Have you ever been severely clinically depressed? The only thing people in that state think of is getting the pain to stop.

Nope. I was generally a happy kid, but I had a moment of despair over a particular situation that passed. I believe it was demonic influence putting those thoughts into my head. But it was brief. It was not a moment that ever happened again. It was before I accepted Christ.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Intentionally killing yourself has always been termed self-murder, the word "suicide" only became fashionable since the 18th. century.

The phrase self-murder is a long-established term for suicide: You will find it listed, with that sole meaning, in all good English dictionaries. Even the current American Webster's dictionary defines it unequivocally;

self-murder: Another term for suicide.

It is as valid an expression as; self-condemned, self-centred, self-deluded, and its antonym; self-defence.

You will find self-murder, meaning suicide, used in classic novels written by; Charles Dickens, Henry Fielding, and numerous other authors.

Source:
https://www.born-again-christian.info/answers/why-suicide-is-self-murder.htm

And where does The "bible" call it self murder?

 

[Archer_on_Fire]

How do you deal kindly with grieving parents about their children lost to suicide, being as dogmatic as you are? Shouldn't we leave some things up to God? And not use his word as a sledge hammer as Job's friends did?

He doesn’t because he has never been a parent who lost a child to suicide. Sometimes personal experience with something as sad as this is the only thing that can produce compassion.

I am not a parent but have lost a loved one to suicide.

The thought that anyone would tell a parent whose child has committed suicide that their child is in Hell(which may not be the case as God has compassion), is sick and callous.

 

[Archer_on_Fire]

Nope. I was generally a happy kid, but I had a moment of despair over a particular situation that passed. I believe it was demonic influence putting those thoughts into my head. But it was brief. It was not a moment that ever happened again. It was before I accepted Christ.

Consider yourself lucky then. Clinical depression is hell. A moment of despair and clinical depression are two completely different things.