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Featured "Sugar-coated Gospel" can only produce "Cheap Grace"

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by johnnywong, Jun 6, 2019.

  1. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    The Gospel is tied to obedience (that follows).

    Titus 2:11-12 says that God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world.

    2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 says,

    13 “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
    14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).

    Romans 16:25-26.

    25 “Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
    26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:” (Romans 16:25-26).

    1 Thessalonians 1:8-9 says,

    8 “In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;” (1 Thessalonians 1:8-9).

    1 Thessalonians 1:11-12 says,

    11 “Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
    12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.” (2 Thessalonians 1:11-12).

    Ephesians 5:25-27 says that Christ died so as to cleanse us with the washing of the water of the Word so that Christ may present to Himself a church that is holy and blameless. That is why Christ died. To make us holy via the Sanctification Process. This is what you fail to understand.

    It's a part of God's plan as a part of the goal after one receives the gospel.
     
  2. childeye 2

    childeye 2 Well-Known Member

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    I believe that when we truly understand the Gospel, we believe in an Eternal Love displayed by Jesus, who suffered a cross and death at the hands of wicked people in a wicked world, and yet forgave them and prayed for them.

    If we truly believe, then we also must pick up our cross and do the same. As we walk in the Spirit of Christ, through the Holy Spirit bearing our cross, we share in his sufferings, and as we do, we die with him and also cease to sin. Please consider these scriptures.

    1 Peter 2:21
    For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

    1 Peter 4:1
    Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

    Galatians 5:16
    This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

    Galatians 5:24
    And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

    Romans 6:7
    For he that is dead is freed from sin.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
  3. Loversofjesus_2018

    Loversofjesus_2018 Member

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    Have you ever lied since you have been saved? I would be lying if I said I met Christ and I haven’t lied since. The truth is I have lied more than once since I have met Christ..... doesn’t matter if it was me saying I’m 5 min away when I was really 7 min away or me saying I didn’t drink the last soda when I did. Lying is lying and we can’t just start breaking it into categories. A lie is not telling the truth. Regardless of how small or big the lie. So is my salvation in jeopardy if I’ve done those things?
     
  4. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    Once again typical of Salvation-by-Works Christians to append every instruction in the Bible with "in order to be saved". Apparently they can't imagine doing anything right unless they are threatened with eternal condemnation.
     
  5. childeye 2

    childeye 2 Well-Known Member

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    double post
     
  6. Loversofjesus_2018

    Loversofjesus_2018 Member

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    Cease to sin means you get to a point where you are sinless and have perfect behavior. Cease to sin doesn’t mean you sin less or get better with time. Cease means its stops.... no more.... I can’t sit here and say it’s not possible because I can’t soeak for everybody. But perfection is rather hard to imagine when we are talking about Christ being the standard.
     
  7. childeye 2

    childeye 2 Well-Known Member

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    I know what you mean, but after all, this is about having a righteousness that does not come through the law, but comes by grace through faith. What exactly is perfection when grace is necessary to be righteous? I don't believe the scripture is saying we cease immediately, but as we suffer our cross so also do we die to our lusts. We must believe unto righteousness by forgiving others their sin and lusts. Is it so hard to believe that when we forgive others, we ourselves cease to sin?
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
  8. Loversofjesus_2018

    Loversofjesus_2018 Member

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    I do think I understand what you mean. You don’t cease to sin but your sins aren’t counted against you? Is that what you mean?
     
  9. childeye 2

    childeye 2 Well-Known Member

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    To begin with yes. In this sense at least we're not being hypocritical and therefore are fulfilling loving others as we would want to be loved by bearing with the carnal weakness of others. But there is more as a Christian matures. There are virtues that replace vices which come as a result of following Christ, and they do manifest. So we do kill the flesh and it's lusts, or rather our cross does.

    It is helpful to remember that the reason mankind was given over to the lusts of the flesh to begin with, is because we did not know the value of, nor were thankful for, God's wisdom. And we took God's Spirit for granted and became vain in a vanity that counted it as our own righteousness, rather than acknowledging God.

    Therefore I do not believe that God will give us those virtues back until we know how to appreciate His Spirit and worship Him in Truth. But this all is a deeper theology. First we must walk in the Spirit of Christ, suffer our cross and forgive others their sins. And after we have suffered a while, God will establish us.

    1 Peter 5:10
    But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
  10. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    No..iv replied to you elsewhere on the forums..so you would need to take what i said here in conjunction with what i said elswhere.. :)
     
  11. Nicolaus Mourer

    Nicolaus Mourer Call me Nic. Supporter

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    I'm not able to respond to the posts you wrote me because they are too long, and I am on a phone with no access to a computer at this time; I work a full time job and do not have that kind of time. So you won't be hearing a rebuttal from me on your false doctrine, neither any replies on this thread because I have said my peace. Nothing I say or show from scripture will change your mind, therefore I must shake the dust off of my feet. Good day.
     
  12. Loversofjesus_2018

    Loversofjesus_2018 Member

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    Well doesn’t hurt to try and understand. I guess it’s not for me to understand though. Thanks anyway
     
  13. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

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    "Many Churchgoers are not born-again Christians"? This is something I would have no way of knowing. I would be judging based only on flesh..what I see hear and feel. And 2 parts to the gospel? Do you know how many got saved just after Christ left that only had the words of some person? You hear this story and what this MAN said.. and claim to be and then miracles. They believed.

    For me I must stop at the start of all this. To many times we SAY things that sorry are not true .. a lie. We dont mean to lie dont get me wrong. But.. there are hundreds of thousands of Churches in America. And how many have you been to? How many preaches have listen to talk to? Then the people..one woudl HAVE to have talk to them. And one would have to listen to more then just one preacher to make some kind of right judgment.

    I know there is this "cheap grace" going around. I know of one that said they do can do anything and still make it to heaven. I will give you this and you wont like it. I know of a Church..even talked to them. What got me was this GRACE Church (not called that). What do you need? Books anything.. freely gave it to you. ANYTHING you needed. Try asking at your Church. So easy to find the fault the error is it not? :)

    I know of a GROUP that does the same..and this group.. very will know.. get made fun of all the time. Again.. so easy to see the fault the error 1st. We forget who we were..and why He left heaven. We forget ANY good we do.. ANY GOOD...its ALL YESHUS/JESUS the messiah working in us.
     
  14. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    You need to read through carefully what 1stcentury lady told you
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
  15. mukk_in

    mukk_in Yankees fan Supporter

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    That's true. The Lord Himself warned us about fake theology and teachers (Matthew 7:15-20). Baptism in the Holy Spirit and fire (Matthew 3:11) is no longer required to be a saint. Many pastors still struggle with bad habits and addictions. Sad. That being said, the Lord is able to sanctify them (Acts 19:2-6) with the Holy Spirit. Peace in Christ.
     
  16. johnnywong

    johnnywong Member

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    You are right in terms of money.

    It is free of charge of money but actually cost your soul and everything !

    Jesus said we have to give our life to him and serve him as our Lord and must have full repentance of our sins.

    Do you know why God the father send John came to this world before Jesus ?

    It exactly represent the importance of repentance before acceptance of Jesus .

    But I fear that many just "believe " Jesus with no repentance and just want to buy an insurance policy to Heaven.
     
  17. johnnywong

    johnnywong Member

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  18. johnnywong

    johnnywong Member

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    Itis free og charge in terms of money only , It actually cost you this life !

    It is not about "Work " but about "Will "

    This is a decision first to have full repentance of our past sinful life and "want" (not "work ") to turns away from our old life to let Holy Spirit to complete the "Work ".

    You see ,no " Work " involved .
    We are saved because of our Decision ("Will " not "Work")
    Then allow Holy Spirit to "Work " Our "Will" to allow Holy Spirit to control us.

    We are not saved by Work , but we are not saved by nothing .

    We are saved by the "Will " to repent and "willing" to be transformed by GOD.

    Something cost you nothing is nothing to you.
     
  19. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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    Too many pastors lead us to believe that it is our choice to be saved.

    Jesus told Nicodemus, it was a work of the Holy Spirit.

    Believe in Jesus and be saved?
    Even the demons believe in Jesus.

    Who is your Father?
    Who is your Lord?

    Over time do we see a radical change in our life and way of thinking? Are we often called to a point of repentance? Are we truly humbled by the gift of forgiveness and of the blood?

    I think just a few things to ponder?

    M-Bob
     
  20. SteveIndy

    SteveIndy IndyWatchman.com Supporter

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    I think you are way too generous when you say "many churchgoers are not born again", I would say the vast majority are not born-again.

    In the early days of Christianity, there was one passage of the Bible which held special significance for Christ's followers. This was Matthew chapters 5 through 7, which is commonly called the Sermon on the Mount. This sermon was used as a catechism for new believers, and it formed much of the foundation for early Christian doctrine and practice. These first Christians believed that this sermon was meant to be taken literally and obeyed explicitly, and it became a defining factor of the very essence of Christianity.

    What do you think would happen if we would form a church which, rather than trying to follow the Sermon on the Mount, we would instead violate it? What would happen if we would look at each major issue discussed in this sermon and then do the exact opposite of what it teaches? How would such a church look?

    Take a brief look at just a few of the topics discussed in the Sermon on the Mount and try to imagine what a deliberate violation would look like. Then, in light of this list, take an honest assessment of our own Christian lives, of our church, and of American Christianity as a whole.

    When the Sermon on the Mount says that God's blessings belong to those who are poor in spirit, meek, and hungry after righteousness, we would fill our pews with proud, self-satisfied members.

    When the Sermon on the Mount says we should be salt and light in this world, we would do our best to "fit in" with the unbelievers around us so as not to offend them.

    When the Sermon on the Mount says that "he who looks at a woman lustfully commits adultery", we would put up with a high percentage of our church's leaders and members being addicted to pornography and the filth that comes from the TV.

    When the Sermon on the Mount condemns divorce as evil, the divorce rate in our church would be as high or higher than that of the non-Christians around us.

    When the Sermon on the Mount forbids the remarriage of divorced persons, our church would both perform marriages of those who were previously divorced and also receive into membership remarried individuals with former spouses still living.

    When the Sermon on the Mount says we should "swear not at all," we would willingly take oaths without a twinge of conscience and pledge allegiance to a flag.

    When the Sermon on the Mount says "let your yes be yes and your no be no", we would tolerate blatant dishonesty whenever that was the most convenient path.

    When the Sermon on the Mount commands us to love our enemies, our church would be among the strongest supporters of our nation's military power.

    When the Sermon on the Mount commands us to "resist not evil", we would encourage our members to keep weapons in their homes for use in self-defense and to resist evil everywhere.

    When the Sermon on the Mount says "when (not if) ye fast", members of our church would almost never practice fasting.

    When the Sermon on the Mount forbids us to lay up treasures on earth, we would encourage our members to accumulate wealth in savings accounts, retirement plans, and other investments and even bring money gurus into the church to teach that it is okay.

    When the Sermon on the Mount commands us to lay up treasures in Heaven (by giving to the needy), we would deny or ignore the fact that helping the poor is an integral part of true Christian faith and even complain about the person on the corner with their hand out.

    When the Sermon on the Mount says that we cannot serve God and mammon (wealth), we would teach that God expects His children to be rich in earthly possessions.

    When the Sermon on the Mount speaks of the road to Heaven being strait (difficult) and narrow, our church would teach that anyone who has ever prayed a sinner's prayer will certainly make it into Heaven.

    When the Sermon on the Mount says that the difference between building on the rock and building on sand is obedience to Christ's commands, our church would teach that mental assent and verbal profession to a creed (with no real change in our life) would be all that was needed to be "on the Rock".

    As you meditate on these thoughts and allow God to speak to you through them, please consider these words from His Holy Word:

    Why do you call me, Lord, Lord, and don't do the things which I say? (Luke 6:46)

    By these we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He that says, I know him, and doesn't keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:3-4)

    And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write . . . because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of My mouth. Because you say, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and know not that you are wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked. (Revelation 3:14-17)

    Therefore come out from among them, and be separate, says the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and you shall be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty. (2 Corinthians 6:17-18)
     
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