"Sugar-coated Gospel" can only produce "Cheap Grace"

Presbyterian Continuist

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That verse in 1 Corinthians 15 is taken out of context by you.
Here is the verse in context:

"Now I make known unto you brethren, the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye received, wherein also ye stand, 2 by which also ye are saved, if ye hold fast the word which I preached unto you, except ye believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which also I received: that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 and that he was buried; and that he hath been raised on the third day according to the scriptures; 5 and that he appeared to Cephas; then to the twelve; 6 then he appeared to above five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain until now, but some are fallen asleep; 7 then he appeared to James; then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to the [child] untimely born, he appeared to me also."

The first step to genuine justification is knowing that we are ungodly. Many think they are okay and all they need is to receive Christ and all will be okay. But they are ignorant of humility and brokenness, and think that doing religious activities will get them to heaven. False converts have never really prayed "Lord, forgive me, a sinner" from their hearts, because they truly believe they are undeserving sinners and that all they deserve in themselves is hell.

 
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Gregory Thompson

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Many Churchgoers are not born-again Christians because of sugar-coated Gospel.
There are 2 parts in the true Gospel :
1. crucified and buried in Christ , died to old self , repent and turn away from old life ( inconvenient part of Gospel)
2. Regeneration by Holy spirit to a born-again life .

However preachers want to increase the success rate of "conversion " , watering down the importance of crucified and buried the old self as the first step to salvation.

Only mention you believe Jesus is the Saviour , then you will be saved and go to Heaven.

But what defines believe !
Not just "know" a historical person came to this world with a mission .
I believe aspirin is a good drug but I fear of the side effects of the drug and dare not to take it. Then the drug can't help you.
I think the main issue that pops up with this is decades later,

So you believe, so your old person died that you didn't know very well anyway, so you repented and turned away from your old life, but now other people are expecting you to turn away from their old lives?

it seems the only way to continue in sanctification without pointless distractions is to go hermit.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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How many of such Faith alone or Faith + works threads do we need each day?
It's all ego development.

One person cracks the whip presuming the right to tell everyone what to do, and the usual human responses occur.

People already have enough on their plate, so being told that they need to do more, usually doesn't go over well.
 
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8484838

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Here is the verse in context:

"Now I make known unto you brethren, the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye received, wherein also ye stand, 2 by which also ye are saved, if ye hold fast the word which I preached unto you, except ye believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which also I received: that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 and that he was buried; and that he hath been raised on the third day according to the scriptures; 5 and that he appeared to Cephas; then to the twelve; 6 then he appeared to above five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain until now, but some are fallen asleep; 7 then he appeared to James; then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to the [child] untimely born, he appeared to me also."

The first step to genuine justification is knowing that we are ungodly. Many think they are okay and all they need is to receive Christ and all will be okay. But they are ignorant of humility and brokenness, and think that doing religious activities will get them to heaven. False converts have never really prayed "Lord, forgive me, a sinner" from their hearts, because they truly believe they are undeserving sinners and that all they deserve in themselves is hell.
Prayer doesn't save you, though. A person doesn't need to pray "forgive me" to be saved. That's a good thing for sure, that is the show of a humble heart toward God. But true salvation is given to a person when they hear that Christ died for their sins and rose again and they believe it. Acts 10:43 states clearly that remission of sins is given to those who believe.

It's not a difficult concept. Faith in Christ justifies a person apart from ANYTHING else. The just shall live by faith. Not by prayer, not by contrition, not by good will, not by good works, not by baptism, not by piety, not by themselves. The just shall live by faith. Period.
 
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The problem I see with false converts truly is not that they believe in Christ and that he alone is the reason for their salvation, no. Those people understand the gospel and simply believe it and as a result are saved. The true false converts are those that think their salvation is based upon what they personally do, they think that because they're obedient, or because they pray, or because they live seemingly righteous lives, that because they're humble toward God, because they go to church, because they turn from their sins, because they read the Bible that they're saved. But the true cause of justification is missing from that list always it would seem! Which thing is that Jesus Christ paid the penalty for sin in full and is available freely to whosoever believeth without any condition based upon the performance of the believer. The true false converts are the ones that confess their righteousness over the righteousness of Jesus Christ by believing that what they do has any bearing on their salvation. Soul winning door to door has proven this to me.

A person tells me they believe in Christ but must live a certain way or do certain things to keep his salvation.. That's not trusting Christ. That's trusting themselves. With the mouth they confess Him, but their heart is far from Him because the preaching of the cross is not mixed in their heart with faith to the saving of the soul. Rather it is derision in that they think their righteousness and efforts are anything valuable in the eyes of God. Without Christ, without His resurrection, without faith alone in Him, who alone is the way, the truth, and the life, there is no salvation. It's either all Christ or none of Christ, there is no in between.
 
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d taylor

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Many Churchgoers are not born-again Christians because of sugar-coated Gospel.
There are 2 parts in the true Gospel :
1. crucified and buried in Christ , died to old self , repent and turn away from old life ( inconvenient part of Gospel)
2. Regeneration by Holy spirit to a born-again life .

However preachers want to increase the success rate of "conversion " , watering down the importance of crucified and buried the old self as the first step to salvation.

Only mention you believe Jesus is the Saviour , then you will be saved and go to Heaven.

But what defines believe !
Not just "know" a historical person came to this world with a mission .
I believe aspirin is a good drug but I fear of the side effects of the drug and dare not to take it. Then the drug can't help you.

So Adam and Eve are in hell
 
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Grip Docility

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Many Churchgoers are not born-again Christians because of sugar-coated Gospel.
There are 2 parts in the true Gospel :
1. crucified and buried in Christ , died to old self , repent and turn away from old life ( inconvenient part of Gospel)
2. Regeneration by Holy spirit to a born-again life .

However preachers want to increase the success rate of "conversion " , watering down the importance of crucified and buried the old self as the first step to salvation.

Only mention you believe Jesus is the Saviour , then you will be saved and go to Heaven.

But what defines believe !
Not just "know" a historical person came to this world with a mission .
I believe aspirin is a good drug but I fear of the side effects of the drug and dare not to take it. Then the drug can't help you.

The Lord God, Jesus Christ isn't an Aspirin.
The Lord God, Jesus Christ didn't die so we could sin.
The Lord God, Jesus Christ didn't die so we could fail at Love.

The Lord God, Jesus Christ IS our Savior.
The Lord God, Jesus Christ DID die, because WE sin.
The Lord God, Jesus Christ DID die, to demonstrate what TRUE LOVE is.

I am not Jesus Christ.
I am not without sin.
I cannot Love as He Loves.

We, the Body of Christ are not to complicate the Gospel. (2 Corinthians 11:3)
We, the Body of Christ are frail, weak and Dependent on Him.
We, the Body of Christ merely RESPOND to the Love He has FREELY GIVEN. (1 John 2:2)

The Gospel is the ointment of HIS LOVE to Godless, Reprobate, US.
The Gospel is HIM dying for us while we were yet sinners.
The Gospel is HIS Unconditional Love.

The Demons Know HE exists and TREMBLE.
The Demons DO not BELIEVE HE is sufficient to Save.
The Demons HATE HIS meritless favor and unconditional LOVE.

Belief of salvational type is the assurance of HIS ABILITY to Save us, totally.
Belief is not the washing of our filthy flesh, but a clear conscience of honesty before HIM.
Belief in Him, through acceptance of the Gospel (Good News) is our only offering.
 
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"For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man boast."

That is where salvation starts. It is also the salvation we build upon. We are initially and ultimately saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ (and by believing in His death and resurrection), and (in most cases if we did not live in a barbaric tribe like life in some jungle without a Bible, we seek forgiveness of our sins with the Lord Jesus Christ as per 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1). This is the Justification process and it should not be confused with the Sanctification Process.

If you were to look at the context of Ephesians 2:8-9, you would see that it is talking about "Initial Salvation." Ephesians 2:1 says,

"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;" (Ephesians 2:1) (KJV).

Being "quickened" (or regenerated spiritually) is a one time past event for a born again Christian.
So the context here is "Initial Salvation."

Ephesians 2:8 relates God's grace to that as a gift.
Now, I don't know about you, but gifts are received one time.
Kids on Christmas do not keep receiving the same gifts at Christmas on a daily basis thereafter.
They don't keep receiving the same Christmas gifts over and over and over and over again.
They receive the original Christmas gifts on Christmas one time.
Granted, I do not believe in celebrating Christmas, but the point here is that gifts are received one time. Meaning, that Ephesians 2:8-9 is talking about "Initial Salvation" or a one time event that takes place upon a person.

Ephesians 3:17, Paul says to the Ephesians, "That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,"

Again, the idea here that Christ may dwell in our hearts by faith is normally a one time thing, unless a believer falls away into a prodigal life of sin for a while and then later repents (Seeks forgiveness with their Everlasting Father) (Note: Jesus is our Everlasting Father because when believers will be resurrected bodily one day, they will be after His likeness).

Anyways, Paul's words are normally confused with thinking that he was referring to ALL Law, when in reality he was talking about the OLD LAW (or the Torah, i.e. the 613 laws given to Israel, contractually speaking). Paul was NOT referring to the Sanctification Process or obedience to the New Testament Commands that come from Jesus and His followers (and the working of the Lord within them) so as to obey and live holy in this life. Justification comes first, and then Sanctification. Paul is saying we are not saved by "Works ALONE" because he was fighting against the heresy of "Circumcision Salvationism."

Here are a list of verses by Paul that shows that he was fighting against Circumcision Salvationism
(Which is the context of his generic use of the words "Law" and "works"):

  1. Galatians 2:3 says, “But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:”

  2. Galatians 5:2 says, “Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”

  3. Galatians 5:6 says, “For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.”

  4. Galatians 6:15 (NLT) says, “It doesn't matter whether we have been circumcised or not. What counts is whether we have been transformed into a new creation.”

  5. 1 Corinthians 7:18-19 says, 18 For instance, a man who was circumcised before he became a believer should not try to reverse it. And the man who was uncircumcised when he became a believer should not be circumcised now. (NLT) 19 “Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.” (NASB)

  6. Romans 2:28-29 says, “For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.”

  7. Romans 3:1 says, “What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?”

  8. Romans 4:9-12 says, ”9 “Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.”

  9. Acts of the Apostles 21:21 says, “And they are informed of you, that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.”

In fact, at the Jerusalem Counsel, we clearly learn of the heresy of Circumcision Salvationism:

  1. Acts of the Apostles 15:1 says, “And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.”

  2. Acts of the Apostles 15:5 says, But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”

  3. Acts of the Apostles 15:24 says, “Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”

You said:
Salvation has nothing to do with my performance and everything to do with what Jesus did for me. I trust that in him I have remission of sins, therefore I forsake my righteousness and receive freely his righteousness.

This is just the blind unbiblical mantra from your Pastor or church that has been fed to you over, and over, and over again. If you repeat something to yourself long enough, it then becomes true to you. But this is not what the Bible even remotely teaches.

How so? I challenge you to carefully look at the following verses below in your own time and prayerfully consider them. Ask yourself, "Why do I have to change the plain meaning of so many verses in my Bible in order to fit Belief Alone-ism?"

For the Bible clearly teaches that....

After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:



(Here are a List of Verses):


“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "(1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1).

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. (Galatians 5:16).

“That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).

“...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:17-19).

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

"...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62).

“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).

"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

“And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;” (Titus 2:11-12).

“...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).

”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).

”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

”Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation [i.e. as the people of Israel did when they rebelled against him in the desert.”] (Hebrews 3:12-15) (Note: The explanation on verse 15 in brackets is taken from the Living Bible Translation (TLB)).

”Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)” (Hebrews 3:10-11).

”Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Hebrews 4:11).

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

“He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).
 
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One cannot be saved if they go about to establish their own righteousness by being obedient, rather than submitting themselves unto the righteousness of God by faith (Romans 10:1-3).

The context of Romans 10:1-3 is Israel and Paul's desire for them to be saved by Jesus Christ. This would be "Initial Salvation" for them if they were to accept Christ.

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).

This is not talking about the Sanctification Process, after we are saved by God's grace through faith in Christ by calling upon the name of the Lord (Jesus) for salvation (Which would be the Justification Process). Paul is not talking about not doing any kind of works of faith as a part of the Sanctification Process AFTER we are saved. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we need to have both a belief in the truth and Sanctification as a part of salvation.

"...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:" (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

You said:
The Bible is clear that there is not a just man upon the earth that does good and does not sin (Ecclesiastes 7:20),

Well, knowing the context and understanding the origin of righteousness is the key to understanding Ecclesiastes 7:20. It is a future echo of the words of Jesus when He said, "there is none good but one, that is God." (Matthew 19:17). Meaning, it is God who is the One who does the righteousness within a believer. Man in and of himself cannot be righteous on his own power. God is only good and righteous. Hence, why Man needs God to be righteous. How do we get the righteousness of God? Thru repentance of our sins (i.e. to confess and forsake sin).

Ecclesiastes 7:3 says sorrow is better than laughter. Why? Because Paul says Godly sorrow leads to repentance unto salvation. It's why verse 18 says we are to fear God. So yes. A man can stop sinning. But not on his own, though. That is what Ecclesiastes 7:20 is saying. However, seeing God is perfect and righteous, the Lord can help the believer to stop or cease from sin. How so? The Scriptures say so. Galatians 5:24 says those that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. 1 Peter 4:1 says that he that suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin. In fact, Peter identifies certain false prophets by the fact that they cannot cease from sin (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:14). For Jesus says to two people to, "sin no more." (John 5:14) (John 8:11). Do you believe Jesus when He says that?

Side Note: Please keep in mind that I believe the above verses on overcoming sin are dealing with "grievous sin" that the Bible clearly condemns (like murder, lying, hate, hating your brother, etc.). Not all sin is the same. For example: There is a sin not unto death (1 John 5:17).

Also see Ezekiel 36:26-27. What happens as a result of God placing his Spirit within the believer, etc.?

You said:
for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23).

There is no doubt that all believers have sinned as a part of their old life (Which is what Romans 3 is talking about, i.e. Prior to Justification by Faith in Christ). But if you are to read Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23 as speaking as the PRESENT tense walk of a believer's life, then you must also include Romans 3:11 as talking about the PRESENT tense walk of a believer's life, too. You cannot take one without the other. This means, that if you believe verses 10 and verses 23 as applying present to how even believers sin every day currently, then you must also believe Romans 3:11 describes the daily life of the believer, too.

"There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." (Romans 3:11).

In other words, are you saying that believers daily do not have any understanding, and that they do not seek after God? Surely not. Paul was quoting Psalms chapter 14 of the Gentile world who says "there is no God."

I will address the rest of what you wrote in my next post to you.

May God's goodness be upon you today.
 
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Grip Docility

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So Adam and Eve are in hell

Sheol NO! He visited the Spirits in Prison, after He Died. He ascended and led captives captive. He does not fail us. We fail Him and some of us would BAR UP the easy yoke.

:D

All Love in our ONLY HOPE, Lord and Savior, God and Best Friend, Jesus Christ, to you d taylor...

Wonderful Question!
 
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Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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Therefore we have peace with God through faith in Christ (Romans 5:1-2).

Again, Paul is referring to "Initial Salvation" or the Justification Process.

1 "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God." (Romans 5:1-2).​

Paul is not referring to the Sanctification Process that happens AFTER we are saved by God's grace through faith. For Paul says in the next chapter,

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin,
that grace may abound? God forbid."
(Romans 6:1-2).​

Paul later talks about the necessity of the Sanctification Process as a part of eternal life in Romans 8:13 when he says,

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." (Romans 8:13).

For the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (See Titus 2:11-12).

You said:
It is what He did, not what we try to do, for it is by his obedience we have justification, not our obedience in the letter (Romans 5:18), that is to say, holiness by the putting away of the filthiness of the flesh.

When you read Romans 5:18, you have to also read this:

"That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 5:21).​

Grace REIGNS through righteousness (righteous living) unto eternal life.

For God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (See again: Titus 2:11-12). Ephesians 5:25-27 says that the reason why Christ died for us is that He may sanctify the church with the washing of the water of the Word so that He may present to Himself a church that is holy and blameless. The washing of the Water of the Word is being cleansed by living by the Bible (via the working of God in a person).

Again, you are not reading the verses put forth to you. You are either ignoring them or you have somehow come up with a work around explanation to explain away the plain straight forward meaning of them. You did not address these following verses.

The Bible warns against turning God's grace into a license for immorality in Jude 1:4.
Hebrews 5:9 essentially says that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him.
1 John 1:7 says, if we walk in the light as He (Christ) is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 2:9-11 tells us what "walking in the light" means. It is to love your brother. Hating your brother (the opposite of loving) is a salvation issue. 1 John 3:15 says he that hates his brother is like a murderer and no eternal life abides in him. Not sure how one can ignore or twist these passages in the Bible to say something different.

You said:
However, he that receives Christ by faith is obedient to the gospel (Romans 10:16-17). They have not all obeyed in that they have not believed Jesus.

Nobody can obey without first being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Romans 10:16-17 is where salvation starts and it is how we are ultimately saved. It is the foundation of our faith and salvation upon which we stand upon. But that does not mean there is not another process or stage in the Salvation Equation. The Bible also clearly teaches that we need Sanctification (Holy Living by the working of God within us) as a part of eternal life, too. For well spring of waters in John 4 is in reference to the Holy Spirit. It wells up within us to work righteousness or the fruits of the Spirit. However, the catch is that the Holy Spirit is only given to those who obey, though (See: Acts of the Apostles 5:32).
 
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Gideons300

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Cheap grace is too expensive for me. My salvation was given to me free of charge through the righteous payment of Jesus Christ.
Unfortunately, however, in order to receive it as the pearl of great price that it is from God's hand, we have to let go of all our other pearls.

blessings,

Gids
 
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Strong in Him

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For the Bible clearly teaches that....

After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:

If it did, then there would be no point in anyone repenting on their death beds.
If it did, then anyone who was born again, became a Christian but died soon afterwards would meet God and be told "you did not do enough/didn't live long enough to show you were saved; too bad.
If it did, then Jesus achieved only partial salvation for us; the rest being dependent on our good works.

Jesus is enough - always.
Jesus is all we need, John 14:6; Acts of the apostles 4:12.
Jesus achieved reconciliation between man and God, and we will be reconciled through him, if we accept him, Romans 5:11; 2 Corinthians 5:18-20.
Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, John 1:29.

As far as I can see, it is human pride which says "my works need to play some part in my salvation".
 
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dqhall

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The problem I see with false converts truly is not that they believe in Christ and that he alone is the reason for their salvation, no. Those people understand the gospel and simply believe it and as a result are saved. The true false converts are those that think their salvation is based upon what they personally do, they think that because they're obedient, or because they pray, or because they live seemingly righteous lives, that because they're humble toward God, because they go to church, because they turn from their sins, because they read the Bible that they're saved. But the true cause of justification is missing from that list always it would seem! Which thing is that Jesus Christ paid the penalty for sin in full and is available freely to whosoever believeth without any condition based upon the performance of the believer. The true false converts are the ones that confess their righteousness over the righteousness of Jesus Christ by believing that what they do has any bearing on their salvation. Soul winning door to door has proven this to me.

A person tells me they believe in Christ but must live a certain way or do certain things to keep his salvation.. That's not trusting Christ. That's trusting themselves. With the mouth they confess Him, but their heart is far from Him because the preaching of the cross is not mixed in their heart with faith to the saving of the soul. Rather it is derision in that they think their righteousness and efforts are anything valuable in the eyes of God. Without Christ, without His resurrection, without faith alone in Him, who alone is the way, the truth, and the life, there is no salvation. It's either all Christ or none of Christ, there is no in between.
Jesus washed his disciples’ feet. He did not make them wash his feet.

Mark 10:45 (WEB) For the Son of Man also came not to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.

By following Jesus they risked poverty, arrest and execution. Their gift of faith was not as easy as opening gifts Christmas morning.

If you testify against the evils of the world in God’s name you will be opposed.
 
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1stcenturylady

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The gospel is that Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again from the dead. That's what Paul the Apostle defines the gospel as.

How does that affect you?
 
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d taylor

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satan has certainly taken advantage of the human sinful nature and has brought about confussion on how to have eternal life.
Even though the Bible shows the simple way, many take the Bible and produce these false ideas of sugar coated gospel, cheap grace, easy believism, etc..

Of course they sell books and gather followers but they have to do Bible rearrangement of verses, to make their theology work.

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

Too bad people put all these human ideas and will not look to the promised Messiah for eternal life.
 
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devin553344

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Many Churchgoers are not born-again Christians because of sugar-coated Gospel.
There are 2 parts in the true Gospel :
1. crucified and buried in Christ , died to old self , repent and turn away from old life ( inconvenient part of Gospel)
2. Regeneration by Holy spirit to a born-again life .

However preachers want to increase the success rate of "conversion " , watering down the importance of crucified and buried the old self as the first step to salvation.

Only mention you believe Jesus is the Saviour , then you will be saved and go to Heaven.

But what defines believe !
Not just "know" a historical person came to this world with a mission .
I believe aspirin is a good drug but I fear of the side effects of the drug and dare not to take it. Then the drug can't help you.

Why don't you like having all people go to heaven? We are supposed to desire that. Then we don't judge people. We desire all to go to heaven. If we believe in Jesus then we are saved. And when we believe we start to follow Christ. That should be enough.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. - 1 Corinthians 15:1-22 Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 15:1-22 - King James Version

You have believed in vain if Christ is not risen. You are yet in your sins. Nothing to do with what you are talking about.
No, you have believed in vain if Jesus says, depart from me, I never knew you. Believing in vain means what you believed didn’t save you. IOW, you believed with great confidence a lie.
 
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Calvin_1985

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Many Churchgoers are not born-again Christians because of sugar-coated Gospel.
There are 2 parts in the true Gospel :
1. crucified and buried in Christ , died to old self , repent and turn away from old life ( inconvenient part of Gospel)
2. Regeneration by Holy spirit to a born-again life .

However preachers want to increase the success rate of "conversion " , watering down the importance of crucified and buried the old self as the first step to salvation.

Only mention you believe Jesus is the Saviour , then you will be saved and go to Heaven.

But what defines believe !
Not just "know" a historical person came to this world with a mission .
I believe aspirin is a good drug but I fear of the side effects of the drug and dare not to take it. Then the drug can't help you.
You've got a long way go. Go and learn what True judgement is.


The gospel is that Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again from the dead. That's what Paul the Apostle defines the gospel as.

The Gospel is much deeper than that. The Death, Burial, and resurection are just the tip.
 
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