"Sugar-coated Gospel" can only produce "Cheap Grace"

[Bible Highlighter]

Well that's the thing. You obey it by believing it. Salvation-by-Works Christians refuse to obey the gospel. So they discard it in favor of their salvation by works soteriology.

But what is the alternative to doing good works as a part of salvation?
Would that not be evil works?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That’s a really great question and to me I think the evidence is in our actions. Who never sins? Is there anyone here among us that can truly say he/she never sins? I sure wish I could but that would certainly be a lie. I took a pole a while back here on CF and out of about 65 Christians 3 of them said they never sin. I don’t know if it’s true or not, I wouldn’t call anyone a liar about it but I must admit that I do have doubts that anyone is capable of never sinning after becoming a Christian. I know many Christians in my church family who are truly devoted to serving God and not one of them claims to never sin. Personally I don’t think we will achieve glorification in this life. I think in this life we will always be in the sanctification process. Until I can see actual proof I just can’t bring myself to believe in a sinless life. I think they way it’s worded in the scriptures is inconclusive and could have an alternate meaning.

One must crucify the affections and lusts as per Galatians 5:24. I believe this is in regards to overcoming grievous sin (like lying, hate, lust, stealing, etc.) and not in regards to faults of character, or committing minor transgressions (like not taking the trash out on time, or going over the speed limit a little). 1 John 5:17 clearly teaches that there is a "sin not unto death." So not all sin is the same.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Totally agree with you.


My thread may give a false impression of too emphasis about legalism.


But actually it is about Will not Work, God see what is more important is the Heart of people.


But it seems that nowadays most of the Preaches want to make repentance not important and in the name of legalism to suppress the true Gospel in order to meet the needs of those who want to keep their sinful life at the same time to buy an insurance policy to Heaven.

I see Legalism as going back to the Old Law (as a whole), or obeying Man's laws to be saved or trying to be saved by Law Alone without God's grace through faith in Jesus. But it is never wrong to obey God's commands and or to do good works as a part of salvation after we are saved by God's grace. The unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness (Matthew 25:30). Clearly he was punished because he did not do good works. Jesus Himself agreed with the lawyer in Luke 10:25-28 that to love God and to love our neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life. So Jesus is clearly teaching that we must obey God's commands as a part of salvation. But today, the word "law" or "works" are dirty words because of a misunderstanding on reading the works of Paul in Ephesians 2, Titus 3, Romans 3, Romans 4, and Galatians 3. Paul was referring to "Works ALONE Salvationism" because he was fighting against "Circumcision Salvationism" (Please see: Galatians 2:3, Galatians 5:2, Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24); Circumcision Salvationism is saying that you had to FIRST be saved by being circumcised) instead of being initially and ultimately saved by having faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.

Paul was not referring to the Sanctification Process when he spoke about the process of Justification in Ephesians 2, Titus 3, etc. Paul later talks about the necessity of Sanctification as a part of the salvation process elsewhere like Romans 8:13, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Titus 1:16, etc.; Paul merely spoke in the way he did to address the heresy of Circumcision Salvationism. But most believers today have taken Paul's words to mean that he is referring to all forms of law or works (When this is not the case).

 

[bcbsr]

But what is the alternative to doing good works as a part of salvation?
Would that not be evil works?

So you're saying to you salvation by faith apart from works means salvation by doing evil works?

As Paul pointed out in Romans 4, Abraham was justified right after he heard and believed the promise. His justification was not contingent upon works. Thus Paul goes on to says, "Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." Rom 4:4,5 Thus to make salvation contingent upon works is to propose that one earns salvation by his works.

David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:"Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him." Rom 4:6-8

"There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His." Heb 4:9,10 Salvation by works Christians disobey God, refusing to enter his rest, but rather work to be saved. "For we who have believed do enter that rest" Heb 4:3 "and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience" Heb 4:6 Thus salvation by works Christians disobediently reject the grace of God and distort the gospel just as the Circumcision did to make it about works rather than faith. Their faith is faith in works to save them.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Thanks GOD !

This is the reason to write this thread from the beginning is to have faithful servant of Jesus to speak out the truth of Gospel.

Inside the churches , many pastors start with "sugar-coated " Gospel to increase the acceptance rate of Gospel and to increase the quantity at the expense of quality of churchgoers ( otherwise who pay the bills of the church.


Also many pastors use "sugar-coated " sermons to speak to them what they want to hear to paralysed them in order not

to scare off them not to attend the church and allow them to continue to live the sinful lives.

Many are also too high minded to ever admit they may have made a mistake and concede even when the truth is placed right in front of them. They always insist that anyone who falls from grace or is cut off from the vine was never a true believer or never truly saved, even when the scriptures specifically say they were a true believer. I can’t count how many times I’ve seen this happen and it’s truly sad.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So you're saying to you salvation by faith apart from works means salvation by doing evil works?

Well, you believe that a believer does not lose their salvation if they abide in unrepentant (unconfessed) grievous sin (like lying, not forgiving, lusting, hating, stealing, etc.), right?

Yet, Jesus said if you look upon a woman in lust, your whole body can be cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-20).

Jesus said if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven (Matthew 6:15).

John says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:8).
John does not say that there is another group of liars who are an exception to this rule.
I have heard Belief Alone Proponents who espouse holy living say many times that it is common for them to lie and yet they know they are still saved if they lie on occasion because they have a belief on Jesus.

So yeah, I am saying that Belief Alone-ism (Not the Bible) tends to lead in most cases to the thinking that a person can trust in Jesus for salvation while they do evil works (i.e. sin). Sure, Belief Alone Proponents believe in doing some good. But they also believe they can do evil and be saved, too. We know Jesus will not accept this kind of belief at the Judgment. For Jesus says that those believers who did wonderful works in his name were told to depart from Him because they worked iniquity (lawlessness, or sin) (Matthew 7:23).

As Paul pointed out in Romans 4, Abraham was justified right after he heard and believed the promise. His justification was not contingent upon works. Thus Paul goes on to says, "Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." Rom 4:4,5 Thus to make salvation contingent upon works is to propose that one earns salvation by his works. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:"Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him." Rom 4:6-8

You fail to understand three things.

#1. Paul was fighting against "Circumcision Salvationism" (See Romans 3:1, Galatians 2:3, Galatians 5:2; Also see the Jerusalem Counsel on a more detailed description of this heresy: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24). Circumcision Salvationism is saying that you had to first be circumcised in order to be saved. Why do you think Paul mentions circumcision in Romans 4:9-12? Anyways, Circumcision Salvationism was basically saying that one is saved by "Law Alone" without God's grace because it was teaching one needs to FIRST be circumcised in order to be saved.

#2. Paul was referring to the Justification Process (Belief in Jesus as our Savior and belief in His death and resurrection on our behalf - which does not include works - and it is the first step or stage in the salvation process; and it is the foundation of our faith upon which we stand). For believers can be forgiven of sin by confessing their sin (1 John 1:9). When I talk with Belief Alone Proponents, they say all future sin is forgiven them, but 1 John 1:9 says that they need to confess of their sin in order to be forgiven of sin. So one is not forever saved by having a belief alone in Jesus.

#3. Sanctification is mentioned by Paul later. It is hinted at in Romans 4:21 ("And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform."), and then more fully explained in relation to our salvation in Romans 8:13 ("For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."). Paul does not say that you can live after the flesh (sin) and still live by having a belief on Jesus. He says you need to put the death the deeds of the body (sin) by the Spirit and you will live. This echoes what is said in Romans 8:1 that there is no Condemnation to those in Christ Jesus who WALK not after the flesh (sin), but who walk after the Spirit. The word "flesh" (i.e. works of the flesh) is clearly in reference to sin (See: Galatians 5:19-21).

"There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His." Heb 4:9,10 Salvation by works Christians disobey God, refusing to enter his rest, but rather work to be saved.

And the context is this:
"For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it." (Hebrews 4:2).

They did not mix in faith. I believe faith in Jesus and belief in his death and resurrection is how we are initially and ultimately saved. We cease from our own works (man directed works to please God alone without God's grace) and we enter into his rest. This is where salvation starts. But the Scriptures also say: do not be deceived, he that does righteousness is righteous (1 John 3:7). If you were to turn back to Hebrews 3 it says this:

12 "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;" (Hebrews 3:12-14).

Not sure if you understood what it said above in this passage, but it says that we can have an evil heart of unbelief and depart from the living God. That sure does not sound like Once Saved Alway Saved to me. it says that this hardening (of our heart) can happen as result of the deceitfulness of sin. Verse 14 says a continued belief is needed if we want to be made partakers with Christ.

"For we who have believed do enter that rest" Heb 4:3 "and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience" Heb 4:6 Thus salvation by works Christians disobediently reject the grace of God and distort the gospel just as the Circumcision did to make it about works rather than faith. Their faith is faith in works to save them.

No. "Faith + Works of Faith = Salvation type Christians" are not saying we are saved by "Works Alone" (without God's grace) like "Circumcision Salvationism" is saying. Circumcision Salvationism is saying you need to FIRST be circumcised in order to be saved (See again: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24). This circumvented having faith in God's grace through faith in Jesus.

Hebrews 4:6 says that they entered not in because of unbelief. I believe we must FIRST believe in Jesus in order to enter into the faith and so as to have salvation. No believer can obey God first without first being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus and in having faith in His death and resurrection on their behalf. God's grace through faith in Jesus is where salvation starts. It is the foundation of our faith and salvation upon which we build upon. Jesus saves both in Justification and in Sanctification. There are no works that I am desiring to boast in. I know Jesus does the good work in me (John 15:5). So my boasting is in God. That is what you fail to understand.

 

[bcbsr]

Well, you believe that a believer does not lose their salvation if they abide in unrepentant (unconfessed) grievous sin (like lying, not forgiving, lusting, hating, stealing, etc.), right?

Well now you've crossed the line into slander, as you have done many times in the past. Realize that "slanderers will not inherit the kingdom of God." 1Cor 6:10 Might want to add that to your list. As usual you salvation-by-works Christians make up all kinds of hypothetical scenarios that the scripture indicate don't actually happen in order to prop up your flimsy soteriology. What part of "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." did you not understand?

Yet, Jesus said if you look upon a woman in lust, your whole body can be cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-20).

Matthew 5:28-20? What, are you reading the Bible backwards? And what about you, you who judge others, do you not judge yourself? Have you ever looked at a woman in lust? And why stop there? Didn't Paul say, "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."" Gal 3:10 To attain righteousness by the law you have to perfectly obey it. While that is a valid way to attain justification, it's not the New Covenant way which is by faith apart from works. With the Sermon on the Mount Jesus was helping people realize that the standards of the Law were out of reach. But apparently you think you can attain it. So good luck with that. Though of course failing at any point you fail altogether and end up accursed and condemned, and that by your own standards.

The rest of us attained a righteous standing with God through faith in Jesus Christ. For "no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."

Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live by them." But the righteousness that is by faith says: ... That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile— the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well now you've crossed the line into slander, as you have done many times in the past. Realize that "slanderers will not inherit the kingdom of God." 1Cor 6:10 Might want to add that to your list. As usual you salvation-by-works Christians make up all kinds of hypothetical scenarios that the scripture indicate don't actually happen in order to prop up your flimsy soteriology. What part of "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." did you not understand?

A question is not slander. It is a question so as to ascertain the truth of what you believe.
I can say, "Do you own purple pants?"
That does not mean you own purple pants.
It is merely a question so as to find out the truth.
So again, are you saying that if a Christian lies, do they lose their salvation?
Yes, or no?
If no, then I was right.
For surely you don't believe a Christian can lose salvation by lying on occasion, right?
But a person thinking who thinks they can willfully sin on occasion is thinking they can sin a little bit and still be saved as long as they are not full blown living that way every day? What is the difference between the murderer who thinks he can commit murder every 10 years vs. the murderer who kills all the time? The problem I have with Belief Alone-ism is that it is a safety net to commit sin on occasion.
Please tell me I am wrong. I would like for you to explain how this is not the case.

Matthew 5:28-20? What, are you reading the Bible backwards? And what about you, you who judge others, do you not judge yourself? Have you ever looked at a woman in lust? And why stop there? Didn't Paul say, "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."" Gal 3:10 To attain righteousness by the law you have to perfectly obey it. While that is a valid way to attain justification, it's not the New Covenant way which is by faith apart from works. With the Sermon on the Mount Jesus was helping people realize that the standards of the Law were out of reach. But apparently you think you can attain it. So good luck with that. Though of course failing at any point you fail altogether and end up accursed and condemned, and that by your own standards.

We do have God's grace to help us to overcome. We confess our sins, and we forsake them (See Proverbs 28:13). But believers are supposed to crucify the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24). I do not believe this is "Sinless Perfectionism" but it is putting away grievous sin.

Again, you act like I cannot overcome looking at women in lust. This suggests that you believe the believer cannot overcome this grievous sin within their life. If so, then how often would they do this kind of sin? Every day? Once a week? Once a month? Do you feel it is normal for a Christian to look at women in lust on occasion? If so, then why did Jesus say that we can be cast bodily into hell fire for looking at a woman in lust? Why this warning if it is merely a belief alone in Jesus that will save us instead? Was Jesus trying to scare us for no good reason?

Oh, and the word "Law" in Galatians 3:10 is in reference to Circumcision Salvationism. Circumcision is a part of the Old Law and not the commands given to us by Jesus. See again Galatians 2:3, and Galatians 5:2, and Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24.

The rest of us attained a righteous standing with God through faith in Jesus Christ. For "no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."

Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live by them." But the righteousness that is by faith says: ... That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile— the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Again, Paul is talking about being justified by circumcision (Which is Law Alone Salvationism without God's grace). This is context to the Old Law and Law Alone without God's grace. Paul is not referring to the commands of Jesus, and or the Sanctification Process.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 says God has chosen us to salvation through:

#1. Belief of the Truth (John 14:6).
#2. Sanctification of the Spirit (Holy Living - 1 Thessalonians 4:3).

 

[SaintCody777]

You say, "Jesus isn't a ticket to heaven.".

What I meant to say is that the sugar coated gospel makes people think that the grace of Jesus is just a "get out of hell free" card and that's all. No conviction and shame of sin. Its just as Jude 4 says, turning the grace of God into lewdness. These people just affirm and believe that Jesus exsists and did His work. In other words, they affirm sound doctrine and historical facts about Him, but deny His power. You can believe in something but not trust in something. Trust and belief are quite different meanings. You actually have to trust in His finished work.

If you are filled with the Holy Spirit would you feel rotten and down every time you fall into sin? Why would you want to commit the very sins that Jesus died to set you free from?

 

[ViaCrucis]

If your "gospel" isn't good news to sinners, then it's not gospel.

-CryptoLutheran