Sufficient vs Necessary

[FreeGrace2]

Christ's death is the cause of our salvation

Not actually. Christ's death is the basis, not the cause of our salvation. Scripture is clear that Christ died for everyone, yet not everyone is or will be saved.

it is the fact that the instrument of faith is employed within that salvation , we don't thank the lifeboat for saving a person we thank the lifeboat men !

And we thank God for saving us. Of course.

The Bible even says we are saved by "his life" , it's all Christ doing the saving , there is no shared saving.

Of course not. Why would you think I think that?

Even though Jesus many times made the comment "your faith has saved you", I know what He meant. My faith (act of believing) didn't save me. God saved me. As He saves everyone who believes. But belief doesn't save anyone.

If that's not clear, please ask for clarification.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So, "no". Gotcha.

Why do you think Paul was not clear enough? Didn't those verses answer your question?

 

[AndOne]

Hey, look! Exactly the same conversation as every other thread!

Better grab my popcorn!

There must be something about it that you like if you keep hang in' around here...

 

[janxharris]

Hey, look! Exactly the same conversation as every other thread!

Better grab my popcorn!

 

[FreeGrace2]

Did God secure your faith?

If "faith" is being used as a noun, of course He did.

If used as a verb, no, because there are no verses that teach such an idea.

Faith is expressed through one's intellect, which is given by God, in order to understand Him as revealed by the living and written Word.

Man is free to accept or reject the gift that He promises. Why is that so difficult to accept, since it's found throughout the Bible?

 

[guuila]

Why do you think Paul was not clear enough? Didn't those verses answer your question?

So your answer was yes?

 

[guuila]

If "faith" is being used as a noun, of course He did.

If used as a verb, no, because there are no verses that teach such an idea.

Faith is expressed through one's intellect, which is given by God, in order to understand Him as revealed by the living and written Word.

Man is free to accept or reject the gift that He promises. Why is that so difficult to accept, since it's found throughout the Bible?

So when you say God secured everything needed for your salvation, what you're really saying is, "After I do my part and have faith, God takes care of the rest." Glad that's cleared up.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So your answer was yes?

Same as Paul's. God alone does all the justifying.

 

[guuila]

Same as Paul's. God alone does all the justifying.

I never asked you who justifies. I asked you if God's work satisfies the requirements for your justification. Try answering the question I asked. Thanks.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So when you say God secured everything needed for your salvation, what you're really saying is, "After I do my part and have faith, God takes care of the rest." Glad that's cleared up.

Another huge mischaracterization of my view. I've been clear enough. There is no "part" to play on man's side.

The FACT of salvation as a gift is complete in itself. How is that not clear?

Is there a problem with God's plan to save those who believe? If so, why?

Why does RT believe that God chooses who will believe? Based on what verses?

 

[guuila]

Another huge mischaracterization of my view. I've been clear enough. There is no "part" to play on man's side.

The FACT of salvation as a gift is complete in itself. How is that not clear?

Is there a problem with God's plan to save those who believe? If so, why?

Why does RT believe that God chooses who will believe? Based on what verses?

Ok so then you believe that faith is a gift from God?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I never asked you who justifies. I asked you if God's work satisfies the requirements for your justification. Try answering the question I asked. Thanks.

The question is confusing. What is meant by "satisfying the requirements" for one's justification?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Ok so then you believe that faith is a gift from God?

Man's intellect comes from God. And man is free to believe what God says or to reject what God says. Can this be refuted from Scripture?

 

[guuila]

The question is confusing. What is meant by "satisfying the requirements" for one's justification?

Do you understand what the requirement is for one to be justified?

 

[guuila]

Man's intellect comes from God. And man is free to believe what God says or to reject what God says. Can this be refuted from Scripture?

I didn't ask about man's intellect. I'm asking you if saving faith in Jesus Christ is a gift from God. Try answering the question I actually asked you. Thanks.

 

[cygnusx1]

Not actually. Christ's death is the basis, not the cause of our salvation. Scripture is clear that Christ died for everyone, yet not everyone is or will be saved.


And we thank God for saving us. Of course.


.

So you think reconciliation occurs without salvation ?

What is the cause of our reconciliation if not Christs death ?

If. Christs death is not the cause of our salvation and mans faith is then clearly anyone can lose their salvation .

 

[FreeGrace2]

Do you understand what the requirement is for one to be justified?

I know who God justifies. But I haven't found any verses on "requirements" for it, so please explain what it is.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I didn't ask about man's intellect. I'm asking you if saving faith in Jesus Christ is a gift from God. Try answering the question I actually asked you. Thanks.

Since there are no verses that teach that saving faith is a gift, the answer is obvious; no.

When the Bible speaks of a gift, it is referring to eternal life and salvation.

Why should one believe that saving faith is a gift when the Bible doesn't say so?

 

[guuila]

I know who God justifies. But I haven't found any verses on "requirements" for it, so please explain what it is.

On what basis is a person justified?

 

[guuila]

Since there are no verses that teach that saving faith is a gift, the answer is obvious; no.

When the Bible speaks of a gift, it is referring to eternal life and salvation.

Why should one believe that saving faith is a gift when the Bible doesn't say so?

So then you don't believe God's work satisfies the requirement of your justification. It is instead, your work. Glad we could clear that up.