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Stumbling block in forgivness

Restoresmysoul

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In reference to establishing our own righteousness (and speaking from the position of soul ...

In truth, I always please my Father because he finds pleasure in me (which is the testimony of Jesus Christ, and this as an inheritance, or land that we possess from the good pleasure of his will).

Once your soul finds the place that you are his, and his desire is towards you (the end of the process found in the Song of Solomon), you understand that you do nothing of yourself even though you are the one doing it.

It is the place of take no thought which is a continually abiding in the Father's house, which is an ever expanding truth in the form of it's endlessness.

Again, we must come out of the field ...


No one has said that we can please God apart from Christ. Lets recap- I quoted Paul where he said that we are not yet perfected, and said that we should all think like this. I quoted other scriptures as well. you suggested that in Philippians 3:12 that Paul was speaking to those under the law but Paul was speaking about himself and to all other believers. And then you seemed to misapply a proverb as well.


Philippians 3:12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you. 16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule,[b] let us be of the same mind.
Our Citizenship in Heaven

17 Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern.
 
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Restoresmysoul

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But even well meaning men often try to please God by self....its what Romans seven is all about...agreeing with God but unable to live it out....till we come to romans eight and see it is him living in us that brings his way to our life.


If you go back you will see that i quoted the parable in Luke 18:9-14, you can see that the contrite heart of the tax collector pleased God. No one has agreed with that post, so i'll assume that its more agreeable to speak useless riddles than to teach parables.
 
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Restoresmysoul

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Im not getting this field thing. How do we come out of the field if its God Himself who does this at the time of harvest? And what is the time of harvest? (Mathew 13:30) Is it now, in this world and this lifetime? It doesn't appear to be, but it appears to be a future event, perhaps in the time that John speaks of in the scripture below. So how can we come out of the field now? Im not trying to be harsh, but this sounds like a bunch of nonsense to me. Please help me understand your meaning. And please quote scripture so i will have a context to work with.


Mathew 13:27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
 
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rick357

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If you go back you will see that i quoted the parable in Luke 18:9-14, you can see that the contrite heart of the tax collector pleased God. No one has agreed with that post, so i'll assume that its more agreeable to speak useless riddles than to teach parables.

Jesus himself was contrite...and being justified is differant than living life...it is necessary to give up on self to find life... Jesus understood it was the father's life in him and through him as he was in the father and he asked us to have life in the same way the father in us and through us but not of us....so seeing our inability is necessary but trusting in His ability to live through us every day in all instances is so much more
 
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Restoresmysoul

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Jesus himself was contrite...and being justified is differant than living life...it is necessary to give up on self to find life... Jesus understood it was the father's life in him and through him as he was in the father and he asked us to have life in the same way the father in us and through us but not of us....so seeing our inability is necessary but trusting in His ability to live through us every day in all instances is so much more


The pharisee in Luke 18 thought he was better than others, he looked down on them as if he were superior, he thanked God that he was not like those sinners. Sometimes even Christians act like this pharisee, they may think they are above others in understanding, education, intellect or spirituality, but this is actually carnal thinking, not spiritual, because love is spiritual, its the greatest and love is lowly and meek.. There is only love, faith, hope and brotherhood. The greatest in the kingdom is the lowly servant who walks in meekness of wisdom, but its not the scholar who thinks he is more understanding of mysteries than others. Mysteries edifies no one if it doesnt agree with scripture, and if it fails to promote love and meekness. 1 Co 13 comes to mind, it says that even if we understood all mysteries but had not love, it profits nothing. Love is humble, meek, kind, lowly. Love talks about love and tries to build others up in knowledge of love and meekness. It doesnt exalt itself above others, but instead it builds them up with love and meekness.

Isn't this what Paul is saying here?




Philippians 3:12Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected;...

15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you.
 
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rick357

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The pharisee in Luke 18 thought he was better than others, he looked down on them as if he were superior, he thanked God that he was not like those sinners. Sometimes even Christians act like this pharisee, they may think they are above others in understanding, education, intellect or spirituality, but this is actually carnal thinking, not spiritual, because love is spiritual, its the greatest and love is lowly and meek.. There is only love, faith, hope and brotherhood. The greatest in the kingdom is the lowly servant who walks in meekness of wisdom, but its not the scholar who thinks he is more understanding of mysteries than others. Mysteries edifies no one if it doesnt agree with scripture, and if it fails to promote love and meekness. 1 Co 13 comes to mind, it says that even if we understood all mysteries but had not love, it profits nothing. Love is humble, meek, kind, lowly. Love talks about love and tries to build others up in knowledge of love and meekness. It doesnt exalt itself above others, but instead it builds them up with love and meekness.

Isn't this what Paul is saying here?

Philippians 3:12Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected;...

15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you.

Knowing that you know something is differant than pride...the pharasee in the parable thought God had made him something more than others...yet thinking yourself something and knowing God in you is something completly differant....
The mysteries are in plain sight in scripture but line apon line...precept apon precept...the spirit leads you into truth....there are levels of maturity and understanding and with them come responsibility...children ,young men, fathers
Love is our bond...but was Paul speaking in love when he said foolish galatians who has bewitched you...but you are correct all truth must be spoken in love...but Jesus spoke in love when he said you are of your father the devil....and when he told Peter get behind me satan....why because saved men can still desire the things that be of men and not the things of God...and Im not speaking of the material things.
If anything Ive said seems a riddle ask me what I mean...Ive read enough of your post to know you want the things of God...
When I was ten I thought I was grown...again at 14...18...21...27...34...41...then I came to know I am grown yet I am growing. A 41 year old man knows a 20 year old is equal as a man but he also knows he is still struggling with knowing what that means
 
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Restoresmysoul

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Knowing that you know something is differant than pride...the pharasee in the parable thought God had made him something more than others...yet thinking yourself something and knowing God in you is something completly differant....
The mysteries are in plain sight in scripture but line apon line...precept apon precept...the spirit leads you into truth....there are levels of maturity and understanding and with them come responsibility...children ,young men, fathers
Love is our bond...but was Paul speaking in love when he said foolish galatians who has bewitched you...but you are correct all truth must be spoken in love...but Jesus spoke in love when he said you are of your father the devil....and when he told Peter get behind me satan....why because saved men can still desire the things that be of men and not the things of God...and Im not speaking of the material things.
If anything Ive said seems a riddle ask me what I mean...Ive read enough of your post to know you want the things of God...
When I was ten I thought I was grown...again at 14...18...21...27...34...41...then I came to know I am grown yet I am growing. A 41 year old man knows a 20 year old is equal as a man but he also knows he is still struggling with knowing what that means


Paul was not referring to Galatians, he was referring to himself. The Lord said that anyone who follows his commands will be considered wise, and likewise paul teaches those same commands. Its not foolish to follow those things, its foolish not to. I think perhaps some posters here are confused, and they sound nothing like the apostles either.
 
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x141

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I'm not getting this field thing ...

Though the field has everything (in picture/in scripture) to do with this thread I will not continue to speak of it here since it was a simple post I made on a thread I started to express (in a very limited, or seed form) my daily fellowship with my Father. If you wish to continue in this line to His desired end, I will certainly do this there.

For the record ... you are not where I am, but I know where you are (not an accusation) which is not where you believe yourself to be presently. There is nothing I have that was not given to me, and I am no more or less than any other who has ever received from God, or whoever does not yet know they have received from God and struggle in a wilderness to come to the end of their wanderings (where God seems to be their adversary).

Tell me, who is the greater or lesser if God is the all in all; so put out of your mind those things that make others your adversary by picking up your cross (do not give place to the devil).

Don't follow me, follow Christ in you which is what Paul meant by following him as he follows Christ, or even John when he said you have no need that any man teach you.
 
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Restoresmysoul

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Though the field has everything (in picture/in scripture) to do with this thread I will not continue to speak of it here since it was a simple post I made on a thread I started to express (in a very limited, or seed form) my daily fellowship with my Father. If you wish to continue in this line to His desired end, I will certainly do this there.

For the record ... you are not where I am, but I know where you are (not an accusation) which is not where you believe yourself to be presently. There is nothing I have that was not given to me, and I am no more or less than any other who has ever received from God, or whoever does not yet know they have received from God and struggle in a wilderness to come to the end of their wanderings (where God seems to be their adversary).

Tell me, who is the greater or lesser if God is the all in all; so put out of your mind those things that make others your adversary by picking up your cross (do not give place to the devil).

Don't follow me, follow Christ in you which is what Paul meant by following him as he follows Christ, or even John when he said you have no need that any man teach you.


I wouldn't want to be where you are, i would rather just follow Paul who teaches me how to follow Christ, Paul literally means that we should follow pauls example and instruction. Paul says that we should all speak the same thing. I think you spread confusion instead of sound doctrine. Have a good day.
 
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x141

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I wouldn't want to be where you are, i would rather just follow Paul who teaches me how to follow Christ, Paul literally means that we should follow pauls example and instruction. Paul says that we should all speak the same thing. I think you spread confusion instead of sound doctrine. Have a good day.

Confusion comes when a soul does not remain on the cross which is the only state that our soul serves us in.
 
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Restoresmysoul

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Where is that written in God's Word?

Thank you kindly.


Its not written. Confusion comes from people speaking different things. Paul urges us to be of one mind, one judgment and voice. We should strive to all speak the same, and not be different. We should all agree on and speak the scriptures, i.e. the things that the Lord and His apostles exalt in their words, things such as love, humility, meekness, faith hope.
 
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x141

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Where is that written in God's Word?

Thank you kindly.

It is found in this instance if Jeremiah did not believe God over his own thoughts based on an image outside of him (For God is not the author of confusion ...).

Jeremiah 1:17 Thou therefore gird up thy loins, and arise, and speak unto them all that I command thee: be not dismayed at their faces, lest I confound thee before them.

This scenario like every scenario when the word of God comes forth can only be understood in the form God sees it in from a cross picked up.

John 6:41-68 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven. And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven? Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. (John 6:66) From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

It can be seen when the woman was tempted (Genesis), when she did not pick up the commandment not to eat of her own reasoning, which obedience Jesus followed to a literal cross as the example for all who would come after him concerning what one thinks that is good or evil, which was why Peter became an adversary to Jesus who desired the things of man over the things of God, not understanding through a cross the end Jesus was born to.

It can be seen in the perception of the ten spies who believed their own reasoning based on an image outside of them over the word of God (which in picture the conquering of the land was the conquering of their own soul).

Numbers 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
 
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Restoresmysoul

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It is found in this instance if Jeremiah did not believe God over his own thoughts based on an image outside of him (For God is not the author of confusion ...).

Jeremiah 1:17 Thou therefore gird up thy loins, and arise, and speak unto them all that I command thee: be not dismayed at their faces, lest I confound thee before them.

This scenario like every scenario when the word of God comes forth can only be understood in the form God sees it in from a cross picked up.

John 6:41-68 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven. And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven? Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. (John 6:66) From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

It can be seen when the woman was tempted (Genesis), when she did not pick up the commandment not to eat of her own reasoning, which obedience Jesus followed to a literal cross as the example for all who would come after him concerning what one thinks that is good or evil, which was why Peter became an adversary to Jesus who desired the things of man over the things of God, not understanding through a cross the end Jesus was born to.

It can be seen in the perception of the ten spies who believed their own reasoning based on an image outside of them over the word of God (which in picture the conquering of the land was the conquering of their own soul).

Numbers 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.


Paul said we should all speak the same thing, and im not sure this is what he had in mind bro. Didn't he want us to speak of love and gentleness, humility and meekness, brotherhood and oneness? How is this stuff that you talk about promoting oneness? It seems to separate people instead of bring them together.
 
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Restoresmysoul

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If any of the apostles talked like that i would not listen. Sure they spoke of mysteries but that was not the bulk of their words, they spoke much about brotherhood and love, they spoke about having the same mind, minding the same things, speaking the same things, being united in love for God and each other, and in thanksgiving to God and glorifying His name. Paul said to let all things be done for edification. He said that speaking in tongues is useless and edifies no one if there is not someone to interpret. Is this not similar to that? Is there something wrong with speaking the same thing?

1 Co 14:9 So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air.
 
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Restoresmysoul

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I suspect that its you who might be eating the fruit of your own reasoning, and if it were not so then you would be striving to speak with one voice and one judgment as Paul urges us. And your field theology doesn't seem to agree with the words of paul and John either, so i find them hard to believe. I think perhaps you may have been indoctrinated my new age theology and may have not learned from the apostles, otherwise you would sound like them, but you dont.
 
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x141

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I suspect that its you who might be eating the fruit of your own reasoning, and if it were not so then you would be striving to speak with one voice and one judgment as Paul urges us. And your field theology doesn't seem to agree with the words of paul and John either, so i find them hard to believe. I think perhaps you may have been indoctrinated my new age theology and may have not learned from the apostles, otherwise you would sound like them, but you dont.


Tell me, what do you believe God meant by the words found in the following verses, because none of the writers of the NT spoke directly to it, or in the verses following theses what Solomon meant (a wisdom God gave him), which again none of the NT writers spoke directly to.

Micah 4:4-5 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it. For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.

Proverbs 5:15-17 Drink waters out of thine own cistern, and running waters out of thine own well. Let thy fountains be dispersed abroad, and rivers of waters in the streets. Let them be only thine own, and not strangers' with thee.

How do they relate to you, and how do you relate to them (which in some ways is what this thread is about,) or if you have no answer how they relate personally to you, do we toss them out as being the OT and no longer pertinent as the word of God to us, or it is the word of God, but not for us; but bear in mind, that if you want to know what God meant, there must be a cross in the equation or there will be no understanding of what he meant, because the only way we know what he meant is if he is the one who teaches us, (Luke 14:26-33 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish. Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace. So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple).
 
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Restoresmysoul

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Tell me, what do you believe God meant by the words found in the following verses, because none of the writers of the NT spoke directly to it, or in the verses following theses what Solomon meant (a wisdom God gave him), which again none of the NT writers spoke directly to.

Micah 4:4-5 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it. For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.

Proverbs 5:15-17 Drink waters out of thine own cistern, and running waters out of thine own well. Let thy fountains be dispersed abroad, and rivers of waters in the streets. Let them be only thine own, and not strangers' with thee.


Proverbs 5:15 is speaking about purity in marriage according to commentaries, and i already suspected that anyway. It refers to being faithful to ones wife.

Micah 4:4-5 seems to speak of people serving their own Gods rather than the true God.


But regardless of what i think the fact still remains that you ignore Pauls doctrine, he says that we should all speak the same thing, and he promotes, peace, love, brotherhood, servitude. You dont sound like any of the teachers in the NT, so i must assume that you are confused. I never hear you talking about those things, never love or brotherhood, you just talk about things that make no sense to most people, yet the apostles made a lot of sense to a lot of people.
 
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Restoresmysoul

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Matter of fact i don't even want to talk to you anymore, i have enough problems without this confusion. The apostles are not confusing, and anything they say which i may not understand doesn't matter because we are given clear directions, and we are taught to walk by faith not sight, walk in love, pray always and be thankful. This is my path, i don't want to stray from it with debate. Have a nice day bro, i hope things work out for both of us.
 
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FanthatSpark

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:wave: all,

Very interesting read between you two brothers on different roads to same destination. Who are we to judge? From outside looking in (which requires grabbing of old perceptions out of fluidity of Spirit/Love ) one talks in knowledge realm and one talks in separated knowledge & Spirit speak.

With that said, I see the frustration and X my brother, You know better :thumbsup: . When you and I first started in here your verbiage has been addressed
by yourself to be , what was the term, "concentrated" :D ? It takes me time to read between your lines and pray upon them with one basic perception...love. For me , assumptions are made about
"Deeper Fellowship" in that our Word/Bible understanding , mind and Spirit are obedient to God for we are here , correct ? To come with emotion & non understanding should be a red flag in confrontation , frustration and overall non edification.

RMS, I feel you brother and yes, best left alone, for the Comforter/Helper What Does the Bible Say About Comforter? (<-- for meat RMS ;) ) speaks to the individual mind to align said individual to God in that each of us has different life experiences and cultural differences too. Where confusion lies is in trying to share it with another thus do not quench the Spirit/Helper/Comforter (only one example there and not limited too. Don't ya love disclaimers :D). Our Living God talks to individuals in concepts understandable by self correct? We that claim Jesus as the savior have only this to abide by ... Love God first , love another first and align self in secondary format for who's/whats sake ? Love/God 1-John 4:8 and 16. In love one is found pleasing to God for if our state of being is in love from the inside of us then body and mind must act accordingly correct?

Hope this interjection finds the right place in our hearts , Peace Out bro's :thumbsup:
 
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