Striking Out Paul

[cweb255]

Okay, I will choose one random number in that list of "contradictions" and disprove it as well. If you are not satisfied after this next one, you can choose one for me. I just don't want to waste my time on this list--it was made by somebody who doesn't understand Christian doctrine.

Here goes disproof number two:

7. On being justified:

Paul says:
Rom.3
[24] they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,
[28] For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law.

Rom.5
[9] Since, therefore, we are now justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

Jesus says:
Matt.12
[37] for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.
-----------------

God graciously gives us faith to believe. Our faith justifies us because God had grace upon us. You (or Christ, as the case may be) can assess whether a person has been justified by God by the way he/she speaks: you can tell by their fruit (is a common example). James 2 talks about how true faith produces good works. This is what Christ meant. It is a chain of events.

You can see this chain of events best in Ephesians 2:

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

One can say that we are saved by God's grace; One can say that we are saved by faith; one can say that we are saved by our works. It is not that one thing apart from the others did it alone, but all these components are essential to salvation: justification is one part of the salvation "process".

The ironic part is that you use your own interpretation and the material in question to make your argument. It's like using the Bible as a defense for the Bible. Circular reasoning.

 

[St. Andrei]

The ironic part is that you use your own interpretation and the material in question to make your argument. It's like using the Bible as a defense for the Bible. Circular reasoning.

I explained an apparant contradiction within the Bible. Why would I use anything but the Bible to do that?

 

[cweb255]

I was explaining the contradiction of Paul and Jesus. But you used Paul to defend Paul, how ironic!

 

[St. Andrei]

I was explaining the contradiction of Paul and Jesus. But you used Paul to defend Paul, how ironic!

haha, well I'm not sure if I should thank you for the compliment or further explain things.

 

[cweb255]

Further explain things. If you feel that you shouldn't, you have left with circular reasoning, a logical fallacy.

 

[St. Andrei]

Further explain things. If you feel that you shouldn't, you have left with circular reasoning, a logical fallacy.

Well did you understand the chain of events in the salvation process?

 

[cweb255]

What chain of events? What are you blathering about?

 

[robot23]

contradiction in the bible?
no
can't be

 

[St. Andrei]

What chain of events? What are you blathering about?

If you are going to insult me, then it only reveals to me that you have already made your mind up about this and refuse the option of being wrong. Nobody can reason with you if you are like that.

The chain of events (as I posted in an earlier post to you):

You can see this chain of events best in Ephesians 2:

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

One can say that we are saved by God's grace; One can say that we are saved by faith; one can say that we are saved by our works. It is not that one thing apart from the others did it alone, but all these components are essential to salvation: justification is one part of the salvation "process".

Does that make sense?

 

[cweb255]

Well, it was written by humans.

 

[St. Andrei]

Well, it was written by humans.

But could it not have been inspired by God?

 

[cweb255]

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

One can say that we are saved by God's grace; One can say that we are saved by faith; one can say that we are saved by our works. It is not that one thing apart from the others did it alone, but all these components are essential to salvation: justification is one part of the salvation "process".

Yes, I understand it, but I don't agree with it, nor does it even agree with the rest of the Bible. James 2:26

 

[cweb255]

Inspiration doesn't automatically mean infallible.

 

[robot23]

i don't understand why people take the bible literally
i don't get it

 

[St. Andrei]

Yes, I understand it, but I don't agree with it, nor does it even agree with the rest of the Bible. James 2:26

James talks about how true faith is accompanied by good works. Fatih without works is dead. You are not justified by faith alone (that are not accompanied by works).

Paul and James agree: we are justified by faith alone, but not a faith that is alone. Look at the context of James 2 in reference to James 1

 

[St. Andrei]

i don't understand why people take the bible literally
i don't get it

1 Corinthians 1

22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

 

[tulc]

i don't understand why people take the bible literally
i don't get it

[move] Welcome to CF robot23! [/move]

tulc(hope you enjoy your time here!)

 

[Petr]

I believe that Paul's writings reflect his own experience which he felt after he chose to follow the teachings of Yeshua ha-nocri with the same zeal he used to follow the Mosaic law, and this inmense feeling of awakening Christ within himself made him write whatever he wrote. Because of the number of hands that copied and translated his letters, some things became unclear, some things were added & removed later on according to the interpretation of the scribe-translator. Paul was regarded as a great and inspired teacher among others, he estabilished many christian communities. He was never regarded as an infalliable man as our preachers are sometimes trying to depict him, hence his writings must be taken with an openminded approach, not as a literal writings of God, but as a story of a man who is describing his approach to God, which suited him well for his spiritual growth, and which he believed to be useful to others too.

 

[St. Andrei]

He was never regarded as an infalliable man as our preachers are sometimes trying to depict him,

Whatever preachers do that are not consistent. Paul even himself (Romans 7) declares his sinful nature.

hence his writings must be taken with an openminded approach, not as a literal writings of God, but as a story of a man who is describing his approach to God, which suited him well for his spiritual growth, and which he believed to be useful to others too.

His writings are not literal writings of God, but were certainly inspired by God. Paul taught doctrine and that doctrine (being inspired by God) should be considered infallible, regardless of whether our texts today are 100% accurate to the texts back then or not (and I readily admit that they aren't).

 

[cweb255]

His writings are not literal writings of God, but were certainly inspired by God. Paul taught doctrine and that doctrine (being inspired by God) should be considered infallible, regardless of whether our texts today are 100% accurate to the texts back then or not (and I readily admit that they aren't).

Paul taught his own doctrine of the inspiration of God. God didn't inspire his writings, he was inspired to write because of God.