Strange thoughts

[SeraphimSarov]

<staff edit>

Again, understand that all these weird thoughts you keep having are completely normal (even typical) of someone with OCD.

QFT again. Sounds textbook if you ask me.

 

[ProtectionofMotherofGod]

Blackberrys,
You are also describing symptoms of anxiety as well as having obsessive compulsive thoughts. You are focusing on the need for perfection and seem to have an over preoccupation with religious details, rules, and scrupulousness. You have also told us that you are being inflexible in your thinking. You stated that you are having difficulty with discarding bizarre religious beliefs and you can rationalize the cause of this behavior. These are symptoms of OCPD and it is very treatable.

It has been recently discovered that there is a correlation between individuals that have had many staph infections or severe staph infections and their development of OCD. The correlation is not overwhelmingly strong at this time, but it is there. Since this is a recent discovery, more studies will continue in this area. I am explaining this because some believe that illnesses that cannot be visualized (like a large tumor) are not really illnesses. This type of thinking is irrational. Having OCPD is not any less of an illness than diabetes or coronary artery disease.

Effective medications for OCD can be cheaply purchased as generic brands. They are not habit forming and they are safe. If you try to decrease your OCD with only counseling, it may take years to resolve IF it resolves. See a licensed medical provider soon.

The longer you continue with your obsessive compulsive thoughts, the more difficult it may be to medically treat this problem later. You could be thinking much more clearly with decreased reoccurring thoughts (obsessions) within 3 weeks after starting on medication. I am not sure if I will get into trouble for publishing if I am a licensed health care provider, so if you want to know the answer, Blackberrys, you can message me.)

Praying for you and sending a hug.

 

[ProtectionofMotherofGod]

Perfect love,
Here are three interesting articles discussing OCD and triggering.
http://web.mit.edu/bcs/graybiel-lab/publications/Neuron_Graybiel.pdf
What Is Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD)?
http://mentalhealth.samhsa.gov/publications/allpubs/sma-3720/triggers.asp

 

[Coralie]

Still here blackberry, still praying for you.

Again, what you're describing is classic OCD.

I really, really think you should call your priest and set up an appointment. You are suffering, you need his help. Please don't put it off.

Sending you all my love.

 

[127.0.0.1]

Sounds textbook if you ask me.

Textbook

 

[Perfect_Love]

Orthodox Psycotherapy





II. Thoughts - Logismoi

It is in the intelligent part of the soul that evil thoughts operate which excite desire and attempt to capture man's nous so that sin is committed. The development of sin starts with thoughts. Therefore anyone who wishes to purify his inner world, to be released from sin, to be freed from the captivity of his nous must keep his intelligence safe from the impact of evil thoughts. So in this section we shall try to analyse what these thoughts are, what causes them, what results they produce in our spiritual organism, and finally what methods cure us of them. This is a very crucial matter because our spiritual death or spiritual life depend on our confronting them. Furthermore, as we shall see in what follows, many physical abnormalities and illnesses originate from unbridled thoughts.



[ BACK ] What logismoi are

When the Fathers speak of `thoughts'(logismoi), they do not mean simple thoughts, but the images and representations behind which there are always appropriate thoughts. The images with the thoughts are called `logismoi'. "Images in some cases appear to take on visible form, while others are mostly products of the mind, but more often it is a combination of the two. As visible images also generate some thought or other, ascetics label all images `intrusive thoughts'" (388). The various satanic thoughts sometimes use as their vehicle what the senses bring to the nous, sometimes they mobilise fantasy and disjointed memory, and they attack the person with the ulterior aim of effecting his capture.
According to Hesychios the Priest, most people are unaware that these thoughts are nothing but "images of material and worldly things" (389). As it appears from this text, imagination plays a very important role in the formation of the image in us. Thus one can say that logismoi are painters of various images and representations in our intelligence, most of them memories of the past. One brother who was being attacked by memories of the past said: "My thoughts are old and new painters: memories are troubling me, and idols of women" (390).
All things have their inner principles (words, logoi) with which they speak and communicate with man. According to St. Gregory of Sinai, Holy Scripture also calls these `words' of things `thoughts'. The words of things are also called conceptual images, and vice versa. Their action "is not material in itself, but it takes the form of material things, and its form changes" (391). The words of things are used by the demons and therefore they can also be called the words of the demons (392). St. Gregory of Sinai characterises evil thoughts, or rather their onslaught, as a "flowing river", which, through assent to sin, is transformed into a deluge that drowns the heart (393).
In speaking of `thoughts' and trying to pinpoint exactly what they are, I think that we must refer to the division made by St. Maximus. He says that some thoughts are simple, others composite. Thoughts which are not linked with passion are simple. Passion-charged thoughts are composite, consisting "of a conceptual image combined with passion" (394). The memory of a thing, when combined with passion makes the thought passion-charged or composite. I think that at this point it is well to outline the distinction between a thing, a conceptual image, and a passion as St. Maximus analyses them. Gold, a woman, a man, and so forth, are things. The simple memory of gold, a woman, or a man is a conceptual image. A passion is "mindless affection or indiscriminate hatred for one of these same things". An impassioned conceptual image is a thought compounded of passion and a conceptual image. Therefore we must strive to separate the passion from the conceptual image so that the thought remains simple. And this separation can be made through spiritual love and self-control (395).
Impassioned thoughts either stimulate the soul's desiring power or disturb its incensive power, or darken its intelligence (396).
Evagrius emphasises that there are thoughts which cut off and there are thoughts which are cut off. Evil thoughts cut off good ones, but also evil thoughts are cut off by good ones. He offers an example. The thought of giving hospitality for the glory of the Lord is cut off by the tempter, who suggests a thought of hospitality for the sake of appearing hospitable in the eyes of others. Likewise the thought of giving hospitality to gain human recognition is cut off "when a better thought comes" which prompts us to be hospitable for the Lord's sake and for the sake of virtue (397). So it is possible for one thought to start off as evil, but through our own effort and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to be transformed into a good one, and vice versa. However, we shall look at this more analytically later, when we speak of curing from evil thoughts. At least we see here that there are thoughts which cut off and thoughts which are cut off, good thoughts and bad thoughts.


ORTHODOX PSYCHOTHERAPY Chapter 3

 

[Perfect_Love]

From Orthodox Psychotherapy

'I hope that these few words have shown clearly that Christianity is a therapeutic science. It heals sick man. This sickness is made evident in the nous. The Church with its teaching, worship, ascesis and sacraments frees the nous and makes it a temple of the Holy Spirit. This therapeutic way has been applied and confirmed by all the saints. It is the only path which leads to God. I think that the loss of the tradition is to be seen chiefly in the loss of the therapeutic method and of actual therapists. The way back to the Orthodox Tradition is essentially the way back to these two foundations'

 

[blackberrys77]

PerfectLove, I appreciate your posts but I need to be careful what I read right now. I know that sometimes the more I read, the worse things get. My mind will get stuck on certain things and make them into thoughts that worsen my anxiety. In addition, my faith is not very strong, and I don't want to read things that are going to confuse me or make me even more afraid than I already am.

I just need some advice on how I can condition the thoughts to go away. I think that I had a few of these thoughts at first, and they just got stuck in my mind, and my mind kept on anticipating more and more of them. Like when somebody is in a car accident, they get scared and keep expecting that it might happen again. Then the thoughts just stayed there. Believe me, I have been praying as much as I can for them to go away, but I can't stop being terrified of them, so I keep on thinking them. I am almost positive that this is what is going on.

To everyone,

I am also having a fear of hell, because I keep saying weird things that I don't mean, and I feel like every one of them could send me to hell. I was driving home crying and telling God that I don't even care what else happens in my life, as long as He will allow me into heaven. But I'm afraid I will have this fear my whole life, and never feel peace. I also fear what if I start to feel peaceful, but am deluding myself because I will actually be condemned. I was feeling like I was about to have a heart attack for an hour today.

How can we be assured of our salvation? Is it ok for me to pray for a way to know if everything will be ok?

 

[MariaRegina]

Know that I am praying for you.

 

[choirfiend]

How can we be assured of our salvation? Is it ok for me to pray for a way to know if everything will be ok?

Our only "knowledge" of our salvation is that God is loving and forgives. We don't believe that we are assured of heaven lest we become lazy or self-righteous, but we can repent and trust in God's righteousness as judge for us. However, your thoughts and fears about salvation sound like they are based in your OCD instead of theological ramblings.

I dont know if this will help, but one of our saints said regardling salvation, "Keep your mind in hell and fear not." FEAR NOT. That means have an awareness of hell and fight the passions, but do not fear for we have a Father in Heaven who loves us! He doesn't just wait coldly for us to make our way to His feet, but He runs to greet us while we are yet afar off and puts a robe on us and a ring on us and kills the fatted calf. He loves you!

 

[Perfect_Love]

The prayer of St Patrick
​

I bind unto myself today
The strong Name of the Trinity,
By invocation of the same,
The Three in One and One in Three.
I bind this day to me for ever.
By power of faith, Christ's incarnation;
His baptism in the Jordan river;
His death on Cross for my salvation;
His bursting from the spicèd tomb;
His riding up the heavenly way;
His coming at the day of doom;*
I bind unto myself today.​

I bind unto myself the power
Of the great love of the cherubim;
The sweet 'well done' in judgment hour,
The service of the seraphim,
Confessors' faith, Apostles' word,
The Patriarchs' prayers, the Prophets' scrolls,
All good deeds done unto the Lord,
And purity of virgin souls.​

I bind unto myself today
The virtues of the starlit heaven,
The glorious sun's life-giving ray,
The whiteness of the moon at even,
The flashing of the lightning free,
The whirling wind's tempestuous shocks,
The stable earth, the deep salt sea,
Around the old eternal rocks.​

I bind unto myself today
The power of God to hold and lead,
His eye to watch, His might to stay,
His ear to hearken to my need.
The wisdom of my God to teach,
His hand to guide, His shield to ward,
The word of God to give me speech,
His heavenly host to be my guard.​

Against the demon snares of sin,
The vice that gives temptation force,
The natural lusts that war within,
The hostile men that mar my course;
Or few or many, far or nigh,
In every place and in all hours,
Against their fierce hostility,
I bind to me these holy powers.​

Against all Satan's spells and wiles,
Against false words of heresy,
Against the knowledge that defiles,
Against the heart's idolatry,
Against the wizard's evil craft,
Against the death wound and the burning,
The choking wave and the poisoned shaft,
Protect me, Christ, till Thy returning.​

Christ be with me, Christ within me,
Christ behind me, Christ before me,
Christ beside me, Christ to win me,
Christ to comfort and restore me.
Christ beneath me, Christ above me,
Christ in quiet, Christ in danger,
Christ in hearts of all that love me,
Christ in mouth of friend and stranger.​

I bind unto myself the Name,
The strong Name of the Trinity;
By invocation of the same.
The Three in One, and One in Three,
Of Whom all nature hath creation,
Eternal Father, Spirit, Word:
Praise to the Lord of my salvation,
Salvation is of Christ the Lord.​

 

[Perfect_Love]

<staff edit>


1John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

St Anthony the Great of the Desert Fathers said:

15. Abba Anthony said, "I no longer fear God, but I love Him. For perfect love casts out fear." (Jn 4:18)

 

[Perfect_Love]

Our only "knowledge" of our salvation is that God is loving and forgives. We don't believe that we are assured of heaven lest we become lazy or self-righteous, but we can repent and trust in God's righteousness as judge for us. However, your thoughts and fears about salvation sound like they are based in your OCD instead of theological ramblings.

I dont know if this will help, but one of our saints said regardling salvation, "Keep your mind in hell and fear not." FEAR NOT. That means have an awareness of hell and fight the passions, but do not fear for we have a Father in Heaven who loves us! He doesn't just wait coldly for us to make our way to His feet, but He runs to greet us while we are yet afar off and puts a robe on us and a ring on us and kills the fatted calf. He loves you!

Yes! it was St Silouan, God's told him this in order to be delivered from his evil thoughts:

''Keep Thy mind in hell and despair not'' It means that you believe yourself worthy of hell, but you do not despair of God's mercy.

<staff edit>

 

[Coralie]

Still praying for you darling.

. . .

On the subject of being assured of salvation: I echo choirfiend. Your mind may be in hell for the moment, but you can still trust God, because the simple truth is that He's not going to abandon you.

Yes, your thoughts are going all over the place; yes, your body itself insists on feeling scared; yes, you're panicked and feeling awful; but that doesn't change the fact that God is eternal, unchanging, all-loving, all-gracious. He's not going anywhere and He's NOT loving you any less. He's with you as you walk down this road. And that's all it is--a road. You will get to the end of it. It's not forever.

Cling to that knowledge. "Be still and know that I am God."

I hope you get to talk to your priest very, very soon. The situation you're in must be extremely stressful, don't feel that you should put off speaking to him because he's "so busy", etc.

Still sending you all my love.

 

[arborvita]

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Thread reopened, cleaned, and moved to the OCD forum.

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