Strange thoughts

[127.0.0.1]

it is likely a disorder, and it's probably very treatable.

It is a disorder, and it is very treatable.

 

[blackberrys77]

Thanks for your advice everyone. I have been to a doctor and diagnosed with OCD,and I am going to therapy, but they just can't answer my questions that have to do with things like whether intentionally having a thought that you agree to a sin is the same as committing it, and whether it is possible to "give into" an irreversible condition by thinking that you do.

I am trying to keep busy but I even get distracted by these thoughts at work. The thoughts won't stop, and theyre all very strange and creepy, and make me feel like I am a creep for coming up with them. I am thinking of different things I can do after work to distract myself.

Now I keep having thoughts that are making me think that I agreed to not repent at the end of my life. And I feel like I keep on saying it in my head, possibly intentionally, but I don't mean it!!!! I try to be good. I have never even smoked a cigarette, I don't drink, I don't use bad language. I am not trying to sound proud but I don't understand why I am having all of these thoughts about condemning myself. All I want is to have a normal thought process, and I don't even care what I have to sacrifice for that, so that I can be assured of my salvation. I feel like maybe I am playing with fire with these thoughts, and that God is becoming fed up with me. I just keep praying and I feel like He isn't listening even thought I know that He is.

Please pray for me.

 

[127.0.0.1]

^

Like I said, very common for OCD. Just understand that it's all made up nonsense. God never abandons God's 'lil ones.

PS
I went through something similar to what you're going through a long time ago. But I'm over it now, so there's hope.

 

[Coralie]

^
Agreeing with Command0182 again.

What you are describing is EXACTLY OCD. These thoughts that you're having are the result of a kind of "short circuit" in your brain, and this "short circuit" is unfortunately triggering all sorts of awful feelings and fears, but they ARE NOT REAL. Feelings and thoughts are not real--they don't define you.

The reason no-one can comfort you about your thoughts is because they are so illogical and ridiculous that there is nothing that can be said to challenge them. This is how OCD works... you've run out of logical things to obsess about, so you've moved on to impossible things.

Keep going to your doctor and talking to your priest and you will eventually start to feel better. Hold on and keep praying.

Praying for you xx

 

[blackberrys77]

I really appreciate all of your comments Coralie, PerfectLove, and Command. I am going to a Bible study today and will try to speak to the priest before or after the Bible study.

Just a little while ago the thoughts tried to get me again with something completely outrageous. I was ironing in my room, and I looked at the floor and it's like I knew that a thought was about to form that I could not step on the floor in my room without shoes, otherwise I would be agreeing to being unrepentant when I pass away. I actually felt the thought about to form before it did, and I said in my mind "No, it's not true!" Then I did the sign of the cross and went on. It is still trying to attack other things, like the jewelry I was putting on. The thoughts are basically trying to attack every other thing I do, so I do understand Perfect Love's explanation of the thoughts tying me up like a captive. That is exactly what I feel like.

Also, I understand what you are saying Coralie; I know the thoughts do not make sense. And I don't think God would test someone with such horrible thoughts, or allow them to lose their soul over a weird thought that was ignored, even though the thoughts are telling me not to do a certain action (which I hope is not the same as "agreeing" to the thought when I go ahead and do whatever I intended to do). Part of what makes this so difficult is that like you said, they are illogical, so I keep thinking "What if it is true?" I don't think I am an illogical person at all. Besides for the thoughts that are happening now, I am "normal". I have a good job, family, friends, I get along with everyone basically. But the anxiety is just so strong that I feel like I can't "take the chance" in case the thoughts actually are true. But the longer this goes on the more I am becoming fed up with the thoughts, and I think I will need to start defying them.

I am trying to remind myself that even if I said something horrible like "I'm going to kill someone" it doesn't mean that I really will kill someone. And even if someone who was a non-believer, for example, thought at one point in life that that would "never agree" to believe, if they do then that means they didn't really agree to it.

Do I need to ask for forgiveness for these thoughts? Sometimes I think I am "bringing them on" or saying them purposely, because I keep expecting them.

 

[Coralie]

Blackberry honey, I am SO glad you seem to understand that your thoughts are ridiculous (although I know that doesn't mean it's easy to ignore them! It can still be very hard).

Just cling to God and remember that these thoughts are like your mind chewing bubblegum--they're pointless, meaningless, and don't have any effect on anything. The horrible part is that they make you feel so awful and scared and tired and just dreadful, don't they! And they grab onto the stupidest things, as you say!

When you say "I am normal/logical except for these thoughts", I hope you realise that's because these thoughts are NOT from your heart. They are no reflection on you at all--only of your OCD. The Lord doesn't judge you, His creation, for an illness that's beyond your control. Keep talking to your therapist and priest and follow their advice, and things will start to improve.

Talk to your priest about asking forgiveness, and when it is appropriate in your case. About forgiveness in general, I would say, God doesn't even condemn us who INTENTIONALLY sin and then repent!! How much more mercy is there for you, who doesn't even WANT to sin (but is tortured by the suspicion that you may be sinning anyway)?

 

[127.0.0.1]

<staff edit>



Someone once told me that we Orthodox Christians do not do good for fear of threats or condemnation, we do good because we love God.

 

[127.0.0.1]

Getting back on topic.

OCD can be traced to identifiable process that take place in the brain. It is no, mystery, how it occurs.

 

[ProtectionofMotherofGod]

Blackberrys,
If your blood sugar was too high and it was making you feel bad, you would visit your doc and take your insulin.

If you had coronary artery disease and it was making you feel bad, you would visit your doc and take your medicine.

If you had an infection and it was making you feel bad, you would visit your doc and take your medicine.

If you have OCD thoughts and they are making you feel bad/unhappy/confused, you should visit your doc and do what he/she prescribes. You are not insulting God by seeking medical treatment. You will be able to serve God more effectively if your are having less OCD symptoms. Praying for you and sending a hug.

 

[ProtectionofMotherofGod]

You are born with it. You're either born with it, or you don't have it at all.

It can get better or grow worse, depending on how bad you let it get. Fortunately, OCD is highly treatable and rarely, if ever, requires drugs.

Many people take medicine for OCD and it greatly improves their lives and their family's lives....just like insulin helps diabetics and anti-inflammatory meds help people with inflammation. Counseling may not help some with OCD and may not work for years, but medication can be helpful within 2-3 weeks if taken as directed.

 

[127.0.0.1]

Many people take medicine for OCD and it greatly improves their lives and their family's lives....just like insulin helps diabetics and anti-inflammatory meds help people with inflammation. Counseling may not help some with OCD and may not work for years, but medication can be helpful within 2-3 weeks if taken as directed.

I said medication wasn't always needed. I didn't say medication didn't work. Everyone is different. And, most often, medication is not needed for people who respond well to therapy.

I'm not knocking meds. But I still highly advocate, therapy, and social interaction as being effective.

 

[blackberrys77]

Everyone,

I have been going to a therapist for the past 3 weeks, and progress has been slow. My therapist said that I don't have to take medication, but to keep the option open in case I feel that I may need some. However, I feel like my issue is both "medical" and spiritual. The reason why is because before the OCD attack, I did something that I felt horrible about. I repented and confessed, and I still could not feel forgiven. I felt like I was being attacked. Then the thoughts started. I feel like the fears will only go away with God. I know that God can heal us through a doctor as well, so I will speak to my priest today (if I can, I will be going to a Bible study, so he may not have time and I may have to make another appointment).

However, I had a mini-revelation today when the thoughts became so outrageous that they were saying I couldn't even step on the floor of my own room. That is when I basically became fed up and convinced myself that the thought was not true. I was also having weird thoughts when I went to eat breakfast, but I was able to eat most of it. I threw out the last few bites because the anxiety was creeping up again. I feel like the thoughts are dissipating just a bit. But I was having weird thoughts centering around the idea of whether my soul could be "lost", and I was really scaring myself. I don't want to get into what the thoughts were, but again, they were scaring me and I felt like I may have been saying them intentionally, when I was trying to say the opposite (I guess that is a compulsion). I also had a few moments of anger at God today, but I basically yelled at myself in my mind and told myself that God only allows us to suffer for good reasons.

I will let you all know what my priest advises, and I thank you all for your advice. Please pray for me.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Hi everyone,

I have a problem. I might sound crazy, but please try to take this seriously. I sometimes have bizarre thoughts about God, and I don't know if I think them on purpose or if it is OCD. I was recently having thoughts that made me think that God had left me. I was really afraid for a few days, then I went to a bible study and was praying more, and I started to feel at peace knowing that God would never leave us. Just as I was starting to feel better, I thought something else which is now filling me with anxiety.

I have in the past had thoughts that if I don't do a certain thing (like not wear a certain thing) that someone in my family would go to hell. This time I had a thought that if I ate the food I had prepared for dinner, that it would mean that I committed the unforgivable sin. I threw out my plate of food because I was afraid. Then the same thought came to my mind, but this time the thought was that if I didn't tap my foot 10 times, I would be committing the unforgivable sin. This time I started tapping but didn't count. Afterwards I started feeling so afraid, asking why I just didn't do what the thought told me, and what if it was true. I started thinking that I would be condemned, and asking myself why I just didn;t just count how many taps.

Can someone please help me??? Is there anything that someone can say, think, or do, intentionally or unintentionally, that God will not forgive. What if someone said something crazy, or really bizarre, but didn't really want it to happen, or didn't really mean it? Please help, I know I sound crazy but I can assure you that I am otherwise normal except for these crazy thoughts that sometimes cross my mind. Any scriptural advice or anything you have heard from a priest would be really helpful to me right now. Thank you and God bless you.

this sounds like OCD sometimes I get really strange thoughts too. Remember how much God loves you, He wants to save you so much, - it's not that easy to commit an unforgiveable sin!! I know cause I've worried about this SO much too, but if this is worrying you, that already shows you're not on the wrong track. A person who committed the unforgiveable sin would probably hate God and not even care.

God bless

 

[127.0.0.1]

Huh. I didn't know Catholics believed in the unforgivable sin.

 

[Perfect_Love]

Huh. I didn't know Catholics believed in the unforgivable sin.

St Mark the Ascetic tells us about this:

41. There is a sin which is always ‘unto death' (1 John 5:16): the sin for which we do not repent. For this sin even a saint's prayers will not be heard.

 

[Coralie]

Everyone,

I have been going to a therapist for the past 3 weeks, and progress has been slow. My therapist said that I don't have to take medication, but to keep the option open in case I feel that I may need some. However, I feel like my issue is both "medical" and spiritual. The reason why is because before the OCD attack, I did something that I felt horrible about. I repented and confessed, and I still could not feel forgiven. I felt like I was being attacked. Then the thoughts started. I feel like the fears will only go away with God. I know that God can heal us through a doctor as well, so I will speak to my priest today (if I can, I will be going to a Bible study, so he may not have time and I may have to make another appointment).

However, I had a mini-revelation today when the thoughts became so outrageous that they were saying I couldn't even step on the floor of my own room. That is when I basically became fed up and convinced myself that the thought was not true. I was also having weird thoughts when I went to eat breakfast, but I was able to eat most of it. I threw out the last few bites because the anxiety was creeping up again. I feel like the thoughts are dissipating just a bit. But I was having weird thoughts centering around the idea of whether my soul could be "lost", and I was really scaring myself. I don't want to get into what the thoughts were, but again, they were scaring me and I felt like I may have been saying them intentionally, when I was trying to say the opposite (I guess that is a compulsion). I also had a few moments of anger at God today, but I basically yelled at myself in my mind and told myself that God only allows us to suffer for good reasons.

I will let you all know what my priest advises, and I thank you all for your advice. Please pray for me.

I know you are probably not feeling a-ok yet by a long shot, but what you wrote above ^ is really encouraging.

It sounds like you are recognising the thoughts as ridiculous, PLUS you are recognising the compulsions they produce for what they are--compulsions, and not life-or-death things at all. That's amazing--having that insight into things at this stage. I know you say "progress has been slow", but to begin realising this stuff after three weeks is simply excellent.

Praying for your continued recovery. Stay plugged in with your priest and doc and let us know how you go. All love to you, dear sister.

 

[127.0.0.1]

Obsessive&#8211;compulsive disorder (OCD) is a mental disorder characterized by intrusive thoughts that produce anxiety, by repetitive behaviors aimed at reducing anxiety, or by a combination of such thoughts (obsessions) and behaviors (compulsions). The symptoms of this anxiety disorder may include repetitive hand-washing; extensive hoarding; preoccupation with sexual or aggressive impulses, or with particular religious beliefs; aversion to odd numbers; and nervous habits, such as opening a door and closing it a certain number of times before one enters or leaves a room. These symptoms can be alienating and time-consuming, and often cause severe emotional and economic loss. The acts of those who have OCD may appear paranoid and come across to others as psychotic. However, OCD sufferers generally recognize their thoughts and subsequent actions as irrational, and they may become further distressed by this realization.

A typical person with OCD performs tasks, or compulsions, to seek relief from obsession-related anxiety. Within and among individuals, the initial obsessions, or intrusive thoughts, can vary in their clarity and vividness. A relatively vague obsession could involve a general sense of disarray or tension, accompanied by a belief that life cannot proceed as normal while the imbalance remains. A more articulable obsession could be a preoccupation with the thought or image of someone close to them dying.[4][5] A survey of healthy university students found that virtually all of them had these types of thoughts from time to time.[6] Like these students, people with OCD do not enact or enjoy these violent thoughts[7] [8] by these ideas&#8212;and by the sense that they could inexplicably possess them. Other obsessions concern the possibility that someone or something other than oneself&#8212;such as God, the Devil, or disease&#8212;will harm either the person with OCD or the people or things that the that person cares about. Some people dread entire concepts, fearing their materialization by causes that may seem implausible or indiscriminate to others. For example, a generalized fear of contamination might entail not only wariness of bodily secretions or excretions, but also apprehension toward household chemicals, radioactivity, newsprint, pets, or even soap.[9]

Source

 

[blackberrys77]

Hi everyone,

I went to Bible Study yesterday, but there was already someone there, and there was just no opportunity to speak to my priest alone. I also stayed afterward, and some other people were at the table speaking to him, so I figured maybe it wasn't a good time to try to speak to him. I will be going away for a few days so I will have to speak to him when I get back.

Here is what has been happening with me today, if anyone is interested. It seems like every time my mind thinks about something that is scary to me, like the devil, I start having the weird thoughts around that thing. I was having thoughts and images about the devil which I DO NOT BELIEVE or agree with, and I was getting really frustrated and thinking if someone has these thoughts does that mean that they are following the devil. Then I kind of started laughing at them because I know that I don't believe them, and never will. I know that I don't want them, but sometimes I feel like I am almost compelled to think these things. I had also read about someone who kept on having thoughts about selling his soul to the devil, and then I started having my own weird thoughts. Is that even possible? Or if someone said that, is it just a sin like any other that they can ask for forgiveness for and be forgiven?

My compulsion is to take whatever thought I think I am about to have, and say the opposite. Like if I was going to have a bad thought that I hate someone, I would start saying "I don't hate you" over and over to try to block the thought, but sometimes the bad thought breaks through. I was having a conversation with my coworkers today and its like the bad thoughts were at the back of my mind about to break through at any moment. Then I get anxious that I am somehow going to verbalize the blasphemous thoughts, instead of just thinking them. My jaw tenses up and I push my tongue up against my front teeth. If I even feel my tongue moved I get scared that I've said something! This happened at church once too when I was reading from a prayer book and had a bad thought. I thought I had said it, but I couldn't really tell because everyone around me was singing. I also have a weird fear that my breathing is in tune to the bad thoughts, and that I am somehow saying them by "breathing" them in tune to the words in my head. Weird, I know.

The other thing is that I was having weird thoughts about "agreeing" to be unrepentant at the time of death, which I will never do. But then I was thinking, what if the "agreement" is valid, and God would hold someone to it and basically say that they asked for it. Even if someone said something like this intentionally, would it just be considered a sin like any other sin, that they can ask for forgiveness for and be forgiven?

About the debate going on, I do not rule out any explanation for what might be going on with me. I know that I have had other anxiety disorders, and I always go to God for healing. I've had generalized anxiety disorder, panic attacks (I used to get them every day for a while), eating disorders, and I used to have irrational fears of contracting AIDS when I was younger. I think maybe its even possible that the devil planted some thoughts in my mind, like probably occurs with everyone occassionally, but then maybe I was much more affected, and then my mind kind of ran away with the thoughts. I would much rather speak to a priest or to you all than try to read and interpret any books on my own right now. I fear they will spark even more thoughts.

My anxiety right now is around three questions that I have had the strange thoughts about, which I have mentioned to you before. First, if it is possible for the Holy Spirit to abandon someone because of something they say (intentionally or not), second, if a person's soul can be lost to the devil because of some weird thoughts (again, intentionally or not), and also if it's possible for someone to make some sort of "agreement" to not be forgiven, or unrepentant, and if it is valid.

Or if someone intentionally thinking any of these things, is it as simple as asking for forgiveness and being forgiven? God knows how our mind works, and all the sins that we are capable of, so are these thoughts just like any other sins? I feel like if I can understand these things, the anxiety will go away, and so will the thoughts.

I had some moments today when I felt so down and horrible about myself. I keep on questioning whether I am contributing to these thoughts in any way, or having them on purpose and thinking that I'm not. Or if it's wrong to keep asking questions about them, and if that means I am not trusting in God's forgiveness. I also had moments of some really horrible anger at God today, asking Him how it is fair that He would allow someone who believes in Him and tries to be good to suffer with a fear of hell and being separated from Him. I don't understand

I just want to ask for all of your prayers. I am getting better at not listening to the thoughts that tell me I will be condemned for eating or whatever, but these thoughts are still bugging me, and it's hard to take my mind off of the worry. I did have an hour of peace at Bible study, and actually felt like myself for a while.

 

[CJtheCatholic]

I don't know if this will help or not, but I use to view God as judgemental and wrathful, ready to destroy us in a moment's notice! I know, that's odd! But, thank God, I just studied scripture, and had the witness of two wonderful priests when I was in the Marine Corps and going through personal problems (one was the Catholic priest who brought me into the RCC at Parris Island, and the other an Anglican/Episcopal priest who was chaplain of my unit). Both of these me exemplified God's EXTREME love for us (and I repeat, EXTREME love). And the scriptures testify themselves most especially that God, above anything, is LOVE.
I would entrust anything that is bothering you to His love. And if you fear for the souls of family members (I used to do the same!), then pray for them, and entrust them into God's care, and be the absolute best Christian you can be for them.
Hope that helped a bit!

 

[127.0.0.1]

blackberrys77, I have some super awesome advice for you that'll really help you a lot . . .


Again, understand that all these weird thoughts you keep having are completely normal (even typical) of someone with OCD. In fact, if it makes you feel any better, I get some of the same thoughts you do almost all the time.

You just have to learn that the trick to getting rid of these thoughts, is to treat them like water under the bridge, that is, don't react to them. If you don't react to them, then they'll eventually go away.