Stop The Babylon Harlot Confusion

[ewq1938]

I believe that is a reference to what Jesus in His Olivet discourse taught about the temple mount buildings, not one stone atop another there with that future event.

That was not taught during the OD. It was spoken before it, at the temple. I call it the Templet Discourse.

How could a 10th of the city falling equate to no two stones being atop each other anyways? 90 percent of the city will remain standing.

 

[Davy]

That was not taught during the OD. It was spoken before it, at the temple. I call it the Templet Discourse.

How could a 10th of the city falling equate to no two stones being atop each other anyways? 90 percent of the city will remain standing.

"Templet Discourse"? Never heard of that before. By that you have created for yourself a limited understanding of Matthew 24 which are Signs Jesus gave about the end in answer to His disciples' question.

Matt 24:1-3
24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and His disciples came to Him for to shew Him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
KJV

ALL... of that is part of Jesus' Olivet discourse because what follows is His ANSWER to their question that is the subject of those first 3 verses. It is silly to try and isolate those above 3 verses from His Signs He gave His disciples (and us) about the end of this world.

 

[Davy]

Brethren in Christ...

Many deceived brethren think that when the Roman general Titus and his army took Jerusalem in 70 A.D., and destroyed the temple, city and walls, that that fulfilled what Lord Jesus said in Matthew 24 about not one stone atop another. However as one can look at the temple mount today, there are still huge stones standing there atop another, the Wailing Wall which was part of the 2nd temple western wall, and also the Dome of the Rock right on the temple mount.

Jesus' disciples pointed out the structures of the 2nd temple complex, and then Jesus told them the day would come when not one stone atop another would be standing there, and that is when His disciples asked Him about the Sign of His coming and the end of the world. That means they... understood Jesus to be pointing to a sign of destruction upon the temple mount on the day of His future 2nd coming. So one MUST look past the 70 A.D. event when the Roman army destroyed Jerusalem and the temple, but still left a portion of the old Western Wall stones still standing.

How do we interpret all this then?

This is not the first example in God's Word where He gives us 'ensamples' of a prophecy that can have a semi-fulfillment, but not be the final fulfillment.

For example... one of the Signs of the "great tribulation" for the end of this world that Jesus gave is that of the placing of the "abomination of desolation" idol in a temple in Jerusalem. Did you know we already have a historical 'blueprint' for that event back in history?

In roughly 165-170 B.C., one Antiochus Epiphanes took Jerusalem with an army, and went inside the 2nd temple and sacrificed swine upon the altar, spiritually desolating the temple in Jerusalem. He then setup an IDOL image to Zeus worship inside the temple and demanded that all bow to it. Antiochus IV practically fulfilled that Daniel prophecy about the "abomination of desolation".

But we know, for certain, that was not the event Lord Jesus was warning about in His Olivet discourse when He quoted about the "abomination of desolation" idol from the Book of Daniel, because Antiochus had long been dead by the time of Lord Jesus' 1st coming. Antiochus simply served as a partial previous blueprint of that "abomination of desolation" prophecy from the Book of Daniel.

Likewise with the prophecy of Jerusalem and the temple being destroyed by the Roman army in 70 A.D., that too serves as a blueprint for the destruction to happen on the day of Christ's future return.

 

[ewq1938]

"Templet Discourse"? Never heard of that before.

It just means he was at the temple, not on the MT of Olives when he said no two stones...

ALL... of that is part of Jesus' Olivet discourse because what follows is His ANSWER to their question that is the subject of those first 3 verses. It is silly to try and isolate those above 3 verses from His Signs He gave His disciples (and us) about the end of this world.

What he said BEFORE and AFTER teaching on the Mt is NOT part of the Olivet Discourse.

 

[Davy]

What he said BEFORE and AFTER teaching on the Mt is NOT part of the Olivet Discourse.

I strongly... disagree. You are trying to create a division in that Scripture which does not exist.

If a teacher riding in a car with his/her student mentions history about a landmark, and the student later asks the teacher about that landmark further down the road, the subject does not change, the subject is still about that landmark they passed.

 

[ewq1938]

I strongly... disagree. You are trying to create a division in that Scripture which does not exist.

Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
Mat 23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
Mat 23:6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
Mat 23:7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

Mat 26:6 Now when Jesus was in Bethany, in the house of Simon the leper,
Mat 26:7 There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat.
Mat 26:8 But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste?
Mat 26:9 For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor.
Mat 26:10 When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me.
Mat 26:11 For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.
Mat 26:12 For in that she hath poured this ointment on my body, she did it for my burial.
Mat 26:13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.


Are these teachings part of the Olivet Discourse? If not, why not?

 

[Davy]

Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
Mat 23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
Mat 23:6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
Mat 23:7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

Mat 26:6 Now when Jesus was in Bethany, in the house of Simon the leper,
Mat 26:7 There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat.
Mat 26:8 But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste?
Mat 26:9 For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor.
Mat 26:10 When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me.
Mat 26:11 For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.
Mat 26:12 For in that she hath poured this ointment on my body, she did it for my burial.
Mat 26:13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.


Are these teachings part of the Olivet Discourse? If not, why not?

That above is totally irrelevant to Christ's Olivet discourse of Matthew 24; Mark 13; which are in parallel with the Seals of Revelation 6. Those above are different subjects.

 

[ewq1938]

That above is totally irrelevant to Christ's Olivet discourse of Matthew 24; Mark 13; which are in parallel with the Seals of Revelation 6. Those above are different subjects.

Plus he was not on the Mt of Olives while teaching in those passages. Only the teachings on the mount, on that specific time and day are part of the OD. Nothing else is or can be including the slightly earlier brief teaching at the temple. It is not a teaching on the Mt of Olives, nor was it regarding the same events or timeframe.

 

[Davy]

Plus he was not on the Mt of Olives while teaching in those passages. Only the teachings on the mount, on that specific time and day are part of the OD. Nothing else is or can be including the slightly earlier brief teaching at the temple. It is not a teaching on the Mt of Olives, nor was it regarding the same events or timeframe.

There again, your falsely attempting to divide prophecy in God's Word. In Jesus' Olivet Discourse (OD), He quoted from Daniel 11 and Daniel 9:27 about the "abomination of desolation" IDOL to be setup in a standing temple in Jerusalem. In order for one to understand more about that "abomination of desolation" subject, they MUST go to the Book of Daniel.

And there are other prophetic events in those SIGNS Jesus gave in His Olivet Discourse that were covered in other Books of the prophets, and that Jesus later covers in His Revelation especially! His Olivet Discourse is a parallel to the Seals of Revelation 6! The order of the Rev.6 Seals follow the order of Signs He gave in Matthew 24 and Mark 13.

So 'understanding' the Signs and events Jesus was teaching in His Olivet Discourse is what is important, NOT some silly notion that because He was standing here or there He couldn't have been talking about dis' or dat'.

 

[ewq1938]

There again, your falsely attempting to divide prophecy in God's Word. In Jesus' Olivet Discourse (OD)

No. I am trying to stop the ADDITION of non-OD things into the OD. Only what he taught on that Mount, on that certain day and time is the Olivet Discourse. Many try to add other things into that teaching.

Not Olivet Discourse (temple discourse):

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Olivet Discourse:

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Anything before verse 3 is not part of the OD.

 

[Davy]

No. I am trying to stop the ADDITION of non-OD things into the OD. Only what he taught on that Mount, on that certain day and time is the Olivet Discourse. Many try to add other things into that teaching.

Oh, come on now, you honestly think the questions of Matthew 24:3 that Jesus' disciples asked Him "privately" had nothing to do with their marveling at the temple complex buildings and His answer to them?

Matt 24:1
24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and His disciples came to Him for to shew Him the buildings of the temple.
KJV

You're making me LAUGH, because the very 1st verse of Matthew 24 is about that very subject, and then Jesus immediately tells them the time is coming when all those stones will be thrown down, and then when He is sit down upon the Mount of Olives they come to Him "privately", and ask Him WHEN.

And you're gonna' try and tell me that's 'unrelated' to His ANSWER OF WHEN, which are the SIGNS he began giving at Matthew 24:4?

What's the matter with you? Do you like to create fake arguments just for arguing sake???

 

[ewq1938]

Oh, come on now, you honestly think the questions of Matthew 24:3 that Jesus' disciples asked Him "privately" had nothing to do with their marveling at the temple complex buildings and His answer to them?

It's roughly an hours walk from the temple to the mount, longer if there is a lot of people and depending on how high you go. Did they not speak at all during that time? How can we know what they were asking about?


Either way, the questions don't always determine the answer nor did he answer both questions. Since Christ did not mention the temple one time, and the temple was destroyed LONG before any of the events Christ described would take place we can know what he said about the temple was unrelated to the events given during the OD.

 

[Davy]

It's roughly an hours walk from the temple to the mount, longer if there is a lot of people and depending on how high you go. Did they not speak at all during that time? How can we know what they were asking about?


Either way, the questions don't always determine the answer nor did he answer both questions. Since Christ did not mention the temple one time, and the temple was destroyed LONG before any of the events Christ described would take place we can know what he said about the temple was unrelated to the events given during the OD.

Sorry, I do not buy into your rhetoric. Jesus' disciples marveled at the temple complex structures, and Jesus foretold the day not one stone would be standing there atop another, and then they asked Him 'WHEN' that would be, and what would be the SIGN of His coming and the END of the world. Then Jesus began giving them the SIGNS of the end. It's as simple as that.